Myford Lever Action Tailstock Design and Build

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Thanks Neil. Guess I"ll be out in the shed testing my strength on various bits of bar this arvo. I do like the idea of the sliding handle though. I might have to scrounge up a bit of that chrome moly shock absorber rod after all.

Edited By Hopper on 31/03/2022 22:44:35

[egaParticipant @ega]

I mentioned the value of a non-standard handle end in my post (with photo) on 17 March.

The S7 version is 9/16" diameter. To keep the weight down at the outer end I step-drilled my replacement handle.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Thanks for the reminder Ega. Looks like a good alternative. Motorbike handgrips, of which i have plenty kicking around, come to mind.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Well, a research session in the shed today sees me leaning toward sticking with the half inch round bar for the handle. According to my measurments the overall length is 12" but 3" of that is the bracket I am currently preparing to make. So sticking a piece of 12mm round bar in the bench vice with 10" sticking out provided an approximation. With all my strength in one arm (not much these days!) I can deflect the end maybe a sixteenth of an inch or so. I reckon I can live with that. If I have to push that hard on a lever tailstock, I will either go back to using the standard handwheel set-up or slip a bit of pipe over the lever. Or if there is too much spring, which I am not convinced of, I will turn a new handle from a piece of 3/4" bar I have in stock and step the end down to half inch to fit the bracket I make.

Decisions decisions! Nothing is ever simple. I might even get an hour or so in the shed tomorrow to make a start on the bracket . Should get it marked out at least.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Hopper on 01/04/2022 00:00:32:

Thanks for the reminder Ega. Looks like a good alternative. Motorbike handgrips, of which i have plenty kicking around, come to mind.

I expect you'll go for the Myford-style ball to begin with; I found it a bit hard on the palm of my hand and the replacement seems much nicer.

I'm fascinated by your faux castings!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by ega on 01/04/2022 11:08:57:

,,,

I'm fascinated by your faux castings!

Yes. It occurs to me that I could just cut a few small pieces off the length of 3/4" x 1/4" flat bar on the bench, weld two of them onto the end of the remaining flat bar to make a clevis to mate with the link, weld one small piece on the side to take the quill pivot bolt, whack a motorbike handgrip on the end and the job would be done in 15 minutes flat. That would make way more sense. So not sure why I bother…

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Little bit of progress.

The quick and dirty way of setting a marking gauge when you don't want a crick in the neck and eye strain from using a steel ruler stood up vertical. Drill bit of appropriate size does the job.Surface gauge itself was rescued from the mud floor of a farmer's open air workshop and given a good soak in vinegar for a few days. Good as gold — only much cheaper.

All marks marked out and outline centre popped for good measure.

And let the bandsawing and linishing begin. I am doing only the bits needed to give access to machine the slot and recess in the vertical slide, but keeping the rest intact to provide something to clamp or vice on to. Drilled three 5/16 holes where I wanted some inside radiuses to smooth the joins between cuts.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by ega on 01/04/2022 11:08:57:

I'm fascinated by your faux castings!

You'd love the fabricated GH Thomas Versatile Dividing Head then.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Nice work!

Clearly, you had to shape and fettle as the fabrication proceeded with this complex shape. I imagine that the raising blocks and tailstock (would) have been less challenging.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I only did the VDH itself. With the small tailstock that mounts on a round bar that goes through that hole at the side of the spindle. One was enough!

Then after I got it finished, a full set of castings came up on eBay UK fpr about 20 Quid so I ended up buying them and paying the shipping, back some years ago when it was reasonble. Still sitting there on the Round Tuit list to do the tailstock. Along with making the collet set you really need for most jobs in the lathe . Three jaw chuck mounted on it is a lot of overhang.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Whew. Got it down. I milled that 6mm slot for the link to fit into on the handle bracket. Was not sure how that was going to go, it is 1" deep, a big ask for a little 6mm cutter with the old Myford's top speed of only 800rpm. After snapping one 6mm slot drill like a carrot trying to do similar on the main clamp, I was not sure how this would. So I used a ball nose 6mm cutter. Doesnt have the sharp corners to dig in on the break out at the end of the cut. Seemed to work.

The the last of the bandsawing to finish the rough outline. Have to say I was kind of glad to see the end of the bandsawing. I guess the novelty has worn off the new saw. As Miss Manners would say, I have had a gentle sufficiency of all that now.

So now it's back to the more interesting machining. Next step is to set it up on the face plate to turn the OD of the handle spigot round then drill, bore and ream the 1/2" hole through it for the sliding handle to fit snugly into.

I need to either make a bigger angle bracket, or remachine my smaller faceplate to fit the Mydford instead of the Drummond. Hate to do that though.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Three whole holes drilled and reamed today. Whew!

First one was a bit of a fiddle to set up on the faceplate. Turned the square bit round to match while I was at it. That is the 1/2" hole the handle will slide into.

And drilled and reamed the two pivot pin holes while I had the faceplate out. It does a nicer job than my Chinese drill press whose spindle runs out of true and out of square to the table. I need to give it a good seeing to when this project is done. Maybe set the drill press spindle up in the lathe and recut the taper socket to run true to the OD, and then shim the table back to level. Round Tuit item 7,653 I think.

 

Anyhow, the handle bracket is finally starting to emerge from the solid and is starting to look like something:

Edited By Hopper on 04/04/2022 09:56:46

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Well no, I had not seen the last of the bandsawing. One last cut. The slit along the handle clamp so the pinch bolt can pinch the handle in position. Being a longitudinal cut, it required a bit of innovation to set up: vice within a vice. My old Record drill press vice gave good service yet once again. Gave a nice straight cut. Much tidier than hacksawing by hand, which I don't have the stamina to do these days. Very pleased with the result.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

So onwards through the fog and milled out the relief in the bottom of the handle bracket where it attaches to the quill clamp. A 16mm end mill held in the chuck did the job very nicely.

So now it's really starting to look like something

And I am glad I made the extra effort to include the sliding handle design, despite the added complexity, because fully extended, the handle does stick out right where I like to keep micrometers and tools while working on the lathe. So it would be a bit in the way if it could not be slid back when not in use.

Hey, see all that white stuff coming in the open window? That's called sunshine.  

Edited By Hopper on 05/04/2022 10:26:45

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

But, oh oh, a small design, ahem, shortcoming: The slot in the handle bracket for the link to fit in is not quite deep enough. I mis-guesstimated it from the photos. So the link binds and will not let the handle through its full arc of movement.

This means the quill does not make the last 3/4" of movement.

 

There are a couple of possible solutions. I am unlikely to set it up and remill the slot deeper, as it is is already 1" deep on a 6mm cutter and the flutes are only 1" long, so pushing the envelope I reckon, plus likely to widen the slot where the link fits in an make it a sloppy fit.

Or I could file that end of the slot out with a square file just enough to ease it.

Or could shorten the link too, which would make less of an angle right there, but would affect the geometry at the other end of the stroke, which is going to be used way more than this far end.

Or relieve the link so it becomes like a double-ended L shape, like this [. That would be the easiest. So hey we can't do that can we? Will sleep on it and decide tomorrow the best way to proceed.

 

Edited By Hopper on 05/04/2022 10:19:44

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

All fixed. Sleeping on it was the correct move. Milled the slot 1/8" or so deeper by coming in from the other side from where I did originally. Then finished it off with a small square file to get that last bit of clearance. All good. Full range of movement now. So a quick session with the linishing belt, riffler files and emery paper and it's done!

 

 

I'm very pleased with that.

All that's left to do is polish up the handle and make the temporary aluminium ball to go on the end, and make the three special shouldered pivot bolts, which will be an interesting turning and hex-milling job. So will do the handle first, or else I will end up using the temporary rough handle for the next five years.

Really, I should be out riding that Norton in the background. 1967 Atlas 750 for the old bike guys among us. AKA The Vibrator. It vibrates more than any of my Harleys. And that is saying something. It's no wonder Norton went with the rubber-mounted engine in the Commando the next year. They were a sweet running bike as a 600 then a 650. But 750 was a step too far. Over the years it has shaken the insides out of its instruments, and cracked front and back mudguards, fuel tank, oil tank, muffler, and I don't know what else. But it's a hoot to ride. The best sounding of all the Brit twins. And has always been reliable. I rode it to work and uni for years when I lived in the USA where I rescued it from a miner's cabin in Montana.

 

 

Edited By Hopper on 06/04/2022 11:21:58

[David Davies 8Participant @daviddavies8]

Hi Hopper

Your L/O tailstock conversion looks excellent!

I'm waiting for my L/O tailstock conversion castings to arrive, your posts have been invaluable in helping me plan the machining operations

A bit off topic.

It's nice to see the Atlas in the background. I seem to remember a photo of Harley engine in a Featherbed frame in one of your photos. Is this the best of both worlds regarding vibration and handling or is it worse?

Cheers

Dave

[David Davies 8Participant @daviddavies8]

The above should read:-

I seem to remember a photo of Harley engine in a Featherbed frame in one of your posts.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by David Davies 8 on 06/04/2022 17:43:49:

Hi Hopper

Your L/O tailstock conversion looks excellent!

I'm waiting for my L/O tailstock conversion castings to arrive, your posts have been invaluable in helping me plan the machining operations

A bit off topic.

It's nice to see the Atlas in the background. I seem to remember a photo of Harley engine in a Featherbed frame in one of your photos. Is this the best of both worlds regarding vibration and handling or is it worse?

Cheers

Dave

Thanks David. Do post pics etc of your castings and their machining. Will be interested to see how much less work it is with the proper castings!

Yes, that would be my Narley Special — spare Atlas frame mated to my spare 1942 WLA Harley engine. Handles better than a WLA indeed, and vibrates less than an Atlas. AKA "how to make your Norton go slower". It's been a 20 year project so far. Must get it finished one day. I also have a Snortster, yet another spare Atlas frame with my spare 1970s Ironhead Sportster engine shoehorned into it. I rode that one extensively back in the 1980s and was a great bike. Another one I must get going again one day. Playing with lathes seems to have taken over shed time these days though.

Anyhow, a lick of paint and the bracket looks like something that fell off the back of the Myford's delivery truck. And that's my 1942 WLA Harley in the background. And the mighty Drummond M Type. I'll grab a better pic of the Narley for you next time I am out in the shed.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Made a start on the 'andle this morning. Exhibit A on the right is our one and only local steel merchant's "BRIGHT mild steel" half inch bar. And they call it that with a straight face, even while charging A$16 (8 Quid) a metre for it. By the time I removed the "protective layer" of rust off it, it was at least a thou undersize, making it a bit looser fit in the reamed hole in the bracket than I would like but the pinch bolt will nip it up. Polished up with 800 grit emery paper but not too much on the left. there. Don't want a slippery mirror shine on a handle. Grip more important than looks.

 

I put a temporary 1/2" BSW thread on the end to hold the temporary aluminium ball I will make. The black plastic balls on the slow boat from China have a 10mm thread of unspecified pitch so will redo it when they get here. And How's this for a garage sale find? A brand new unused 1/2" BSW die, made in Australia P&N brand, still with the original price of $3.55 on it. Would cost about $60 today! And I got a handful of them with it, all for a few dollars. Sometimes you have a win.

I used my shopmade spindle crank handle and die holder, which after the resettable dials is the best accessories I have made for the lathe. So handy. No more wrestling the chuck key with one hand to turn the chuck while trying to hold a die stock and wind the tailstock quill at the same time with the other. Half inch BSW is a bit of a brutal thread even so, so I turned the OD down by about 7 thou first to make life easier. Plenty of thread depth left but lots less effort required on the crank handle.

And NOTE WELL the "Do Not Operate" tag placed over the switch, totally obscuring access to it. I keep that clipped onto the crank handle on the shadowboard and install it before putting the crank handle in place. First time I ever used the crank I got so involved admiring the first thread I hit the start button to file the burrs off and the lathe nearly danced away down the driveway, despite being firmly bolted to the floor. Never again. And several times since that tag has stopped my hand from automatically hitting the start button in the same situation. So is a "must have" in my book.

Edited By Hopper on 07/04/2022 06:31:34

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by David Davies 8 on 06/04/2022 22:43:52:

The above should read:-

I seem to remember a photo of Harley engine in a Featherbed frame in one of your posts.

Dave

Here you go, couple more pics of the dreaded Narley:

It is basically a Norton Atlas featherbed chassis and running gear, with a 1973 Harley 750 sidevalve engine from a Servicar trike, but basically a 1942 WLA engine still being made five years after the Honda Four arrived on the scene! Norton gearbox. BSA primary cover. Big Mikuni carb. BSA Rocket 3 front brake in Norton drum. Engine is basically stock, with 100 thou oversize Indian pistons. I have a set of full race Daytona cams for it. Harley had the later model 750 sidevalves doing 149.09 mph around Daytona in 1968. Faster than any Manx Norton or BSA Gold Star that I know of! (But don't tell the purists that. They don't appreciate it.) Long term plan is to put stroker flywheels in it and bump it out to 900cc, the Daytona cams and 1-7/8" intake valves. My brother has a bobber with that done to it, and it's a hoot. More like a Sportster than a WLA to ride. And noise. OMG the noise. Wildest sound on God's earth.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

And back on task, I took a little time out to stamp my name and "Made by" on the underside of the handle bracket. I have started doing this on tools I make largely because I am myself intrigued to know who first owned my old Drummond M Type lathe. Obviously it was some model engineer type because he lovingly made graduated leadscrew hand wheel, oversized and resettable dials for top and cross slides and a unique rear toolpost that really is an excellent design and execution. And a gorgeous brass thread chaser dial. I am sure he was at least a reader of the old ME magazines, or possibly a contributor. But I will never know. Could have been Duplex, GH Thomas or LH Sparey for all I know. They all had M -Types in their earlier days. Or more likely one of many hundreds of similar but less public craftsmen of the era. So I put my name on my bits and pieces I make. But I suppose future generations are unlikely to be so sentimental about old bits of scrap iron.

Anyhow, my method for getting letters straight(ish). A bit of 1" angle iron clamped to the job. One firm hit with the hammer on the punch assures no double stamping. Spacing I find works ok if the edge of the square shank is lined up by eye with the centreline of the previous letter. The cheap Chinese letter stamps are not consistent in their alignment so even a GH Thomas style jig still gives some variations. This quick and dirty method is as good as any then. Note piece of 1/2" steel plate for a firm base on which to hammer away. I keep that on the bench next to the vice permanently and use it for something every day. Invaluable.

 

Quite pleased with the result.

The other thing is to run a flat file over the letters after stamping to remove the metal rucked up by punching. Gives a more finished look to the job, after the final coat of paint it will look all nice and flat.

The 2022 is not curved like that. It's camera lens distortion I tells ya!

Edited By Hopper on 07/04/2022 12:07:42

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Looks great, well done you

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Terrific job!, well done!

So much better than projects you see comprising of lumps of BMS held together with cap head screws with no finesse…yes they do work just as well…… but you cannot beat a well designed and finished tool it gets used more frequently and generally a pleasure to use.

All the best

Derek

[David Davies 8Participant @daviddavies8]

Hi Hopper

It's coming together very well, it's surprising what lurks inside spare blocks of metal! What's next? A rack operated tailstock?

Very nice to see the Narley and the details of its construction particularly the A10 primary chaincase and the Norton box. I'd assumed that the WLA was of unit construction. Also I assume that the Atlas frame is a slimline type, I found on the wideline Triton I rode that it was awkward to comfortably put both feet on the ground and I'm 5' 10''.

When you have time it would be nice to see some shots of the Snortster as well.

Cheers

Dave

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