Myford Lathes

[John BroughtonParticipant @johnbroughton81802]

I haven't actually used collets much in the past , would I be right in thinking that they only hold the diameter specified or is there any significant leeway either side? I.e. will the jaws have enough spring in them to clamp on to a bar that's say 10 thou under.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Basic mechanics, collets only truly grip the diameter specified UNLESS the 'rubberflex' type. If the bar is bigger in Dia. than the specified bore, if a three split design, you have point of grip in six places – corners of splits. Conversely if the bar is smaller, three flats.

Regards Ian.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you want collets, it might be better to opt for ER collets.

They comne inb a different sizes, from ER16 up to ER40.

ER 20 will accept up to 13 mm, ER25 will accelpt up to 16 mm, ER32 up to 20 mm.

ER, being slit from both ends, have the advantage that each will grip a 1 mm range of sizes (Other than the smaller sizes, 1 – 3 mm, which have a gripping range of 0.5 mm )

Thus they can be used to hold Imperial or Matric stock or cutters.

A collet chuck on a 2 MT arbor does not allow work to pass through into the Spindle bore, but a collet chuck, on a backplate does. (Up to the maximum size that will pass through a 2MT bore.

Howard

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 01/05/2023 06:42:22:

Posted by Chris Crew on 01/05/2023 01:07:19:

About 40 years ago I made a few 'Myford' collets because at the time I couldn't afford or justify the real thing.

[…]

I recall having a conversation with the late Malcolm Townend in the Myford shop at Beeston and he told me then that Crawford were refusing to produce anymore collets for Myford for an economical price and that Myford had had some samples made in India that were undergoing quality checks. Whether these later Indian-made collets actually made it on to the British market I have no idea. Sadly, Mr. Townend died and Myford at Beeston ceased to exist. Perhaps someone knows more about these later collets.

.

Very interesting, Chris … firstly that yours were successful but also that Crawford couldn’t /wouldn't make Myford’s product at an appropriate price.

I think it says a lot about

1. the underlying quality of both firms’ products
2. the global trend in manufacturing
3. the pressure of ‘Market Forces’

As you have personally demonstrated: The Myford collet is an excellent design, but it was ultimately too expensive for its target market.

A classic tragedy !

MichaelG.

Maybe more to do with the changing dynamics of the market and rising production costs. Certainly Myford collets were produced over a very long period of time. In later years I get the impression that the lathe side of Myford survived largely as a spares operation with the peak of lathe sales somewhat past. They were an odd company in some respects still paying their workforce with a traditional wage packet with money in it long after most firms had moved to direct banking. I remember a mate asking to buy a Myford collet from the Myford stand at a show but being told they had not got that particular size with them. They then suggested he enquired at the Chronos stand and he was in luck. It transpired that the collet was cheaper from Chronos so Barrie asked where they got them from and was told Myford. So they were selling collets to Chronos who were then undercutting Myford.
Some years later the same friend wanted a new set of half nuts but balked at the vast price increase. Apparently the injection moulding dies had finally had to be replaced at huge cost so the price jumped. You got the impression that there was a vast amount of old stock floating around which was sold at static prices instead of building in annual increases to account for future costs like new dies and the like. Myford we’re excellent engineers but the vast success of the Super 7 in some respects allowed them a degree of complacency akin to the British motor cycle industry so they failed to modernise.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 01/05/2023 10:22:09

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just a thought, Martin …

[ I don’t know, and presumably never will ]

… perhaps Myford off-loaded those Indian samples that Chris mentioned, to Chronos

MichaelG.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by john fletcher 1 on 30/04/2023 10:17:28:

Those two gears in the picture as posted by bernard tower was sold by John Stevenson years ago, perhaps some one else does so now. If you have a dividing head they can be easily made at home. There has been quite a discussion on "here" in the past about gears and Brian Wood's book on screw cutting. John

I have a few pairs of those left over, if anyone wants some. I don't advertise them because I never intended to do a production run but every so often they are unavailable so I keep some on the shelf.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I think I bought a few of them from Myford so they must have made the grade. IIRC there was an MEW article that described making the collets – was that you Chris? I have a copy somewhere…

Found it!!

https://www.haythornthwaite.com/collet%20myford.html

https://www.haythornthwaite.com/collet%20myford.html

Edited By John Haine on 01/05/2023 11:57:46

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Chris Crew on 01/05/2023 01:07:19:

About 40 years ago I made a few 'Myford' collets because at the time I couldn't afford or justify the real thing. They were only of mild steel but they actually worked remarkably well and I still have them even though over the years I have mostly acquired the real thing. From memory I turned two 2MT tapers back to back between centres on a piece of BMS leaving parallel portions at the the rear of each taper, as per the real Myford collet which I was copying, and sufficient in the centre to accommodate the groove for the closing/removal nut and to part the two tapers. I then placed each taper in turn in the head-stock taper and bored out the rear parallel section, again as per the Myford item, before parting the two tapers. I then drilled and reamed the blanks in the lathe head-stock before removing them to make four slits with a slitting saw. To prevent the fingers being distorted whilst the slitting was being done I inserted a piece of material of the collet's size into the bore.

I did exactly the same. LOL

Tony

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 01/05/2023 11:41:14:

Just a thought, Martin …

[ I don’t know, and presumably never will ]

… perhaps Myford off-loaded those Indian samples that Chris mentioned, to Chronos

MichaelG.

Now I think harder about it the way it went was Chronos we’re selling collets cheaper than Myford at the show but Chronos had not got the size so the Chronos bloke went and got one from Myford and sold it cheaper to my mate which is even stranger. Definitely the genuine article. We visited Myford Beeston in 2000 to get a couple of beds reground and it was like stepping back into the 50’s. That was when we witnessed the handing out of the pay packets. Myford did get as far as a website but not as far as online ordering.

regards Martin

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

A good few years ago I went to Myford Beeston intending to buy a bench top milling machine. They were buying them in and fettling them for resale. They had just what I wanted but it was mounted on a cabinet, which I didn't want. They refused point blank to sell without the cabinet, even tho next to it on the floor was an identical machine awaiting fettling. No wonder they went bust.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I don’t think they actually went bust. As far as I understand the family decided to wind up the company after the death of the owner. As there were so many Myford lathes around the world they were able to live off the spares trade without doing that much new.

regards Martin

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Had a very similar problem to Duncan’s, I purchased a Myford VMB and about a year later I ordered a variable speed unit for it, no problem, paid my money, forget how much now and a week or so later it turned up, bolted it all on to machine and jobs a goodun. Fast forward a year and phoned man at Myfords and said how impressed I was with it and could I buy one to fit on to a Myford VMC, no you certainly cannot, why not, you factory fit them, why can’t I buy one, long and short of it is he refused point blank to sell me one for the VMC, next week I phoned again, can I have a variable speed unit for a Myford VMB? Of course you can sir! Absolutely identical motors on both VMB and VMC, As Duncan says no wonder they went bust.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Before I got the Myford collet set I lucked on a Myford collet closer to fit the nose in the odds&sods bit at a show. I discovered that actualy you could use it with a standard MT2 finger collet though of course wouldn't have the convenience of the "self extracting" since they don't have the groove. I do wonder if it would be possible to modify a standard finger collet, possibly by grinding a groove near the end to fit the groove and taking a bit off the length at the nose if necessary.

As I understand it the Myford company either went into administration or receivership and the assets were sold, many of them being acquired by RDG including the brand. Lots of people bought bits in a sale of stuff they didn't want – I recall SirJS writing about a part assembled VMB he bought to modify for CNC. I suspect, though I am not sure, that RDG bought a lot of Super 7 lathe components such as bed castings etc and these are being finished and assembled for sale. My apologies if I misunderstand.

It would be very interesting to know just how big the market is for these small/medium sized lathes, UK-wide, EU-wide, worldwide. I doubt that the UK home workshop market is more than a couple of thousand a year, which is not going to yield much revenue to cover development. There used to be a big market for this style of lathe in model shops in industry and academia, but these days with modern CAD/CAM even for one-offs it's better to design in CAD and make on a machine. I think the only manual machines in our university workshop are the ones in student workshops.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Talking to the guy on the Myford stand a couple of years ago, he said they had run out of ex Beeston castings and we're having new ones cast

[Chris Pearson 1Participant @chrispearson1]

I can recall an auction of remaining stock circa 2011. The Myford name was subsequently sold, but not the remains of the business. Although the sale was described as a "liquidation sale", it seems that the business simply ceased trading. The land was subsequently redeveloped and the company was finally dissolved and its assets (which were significant) were distributed in 2021.

So I don't think that it is true to say that Myford "went bust".

[John BroughtonParticipant @johnbroughton81802]

I thought there would always be a place for small centre turning lathes for one offs ,but taking a small part to a company recently (for work) to have modified , they simply lobbed into their biggest five axis machine, pressed a few buttons and hay presto it came out perfect.

So I'm not surprised small work shop machinery companies are struggling especially with cheap imports vying for the remaining market. Only folk who know how versatile the Myford actually is will ever appreciate the price.

,

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Chris Pearson 1 on 01/05/2023 17:14:40:

I can recall an auction of remaining stock circa 2011. The Myford name was subsequently sold, but not the remains of the business. Although the sale was described as a "liquidation sale", it seems that the business simply ceased trading. The land was subsequently redeveloped and the company was finally dissolved and its assets (which were significant) were distributed in 2021.

So I don't think that it is true to say that Myford "went bust".

The new Myford is also a separate company to RDG.

regards Martin

[Alan HopwoodParticipant @alanhopwood63369]

It was nice to re-visit Mr Haythornthwaite's article in MEW. As the named bloke for the idea on back to back tapers, I'mstill wondering who came up with original method. I remember writing an article for SMEE journal back about the turn of the millenium (sp?) describing making mild steel copies of Myford collets. I was amazed just how accurate they turned out to be. If I remember correctly there was no movement on a good Verdict dti at about 3inch out on a bit of 5/16th silver steel,

BTW I used a slitting saw to cut the segments, but found the best way to start the cut was to feed the collet onto the steel near the VDH and then let the blade slowly cut towards the front end. Hope that makes some sort sense to some of you, but lets just say that as Alex Fergusson said, it was squeaky bum time.

Regards,

Alan Hopwood.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 01/05/2023 18:01:34:

Posted by Chris Pearson 1 on 01/05/2023 17:14:40:

I can recall an auction of remaining stock circa 2011. The Myford name was subsequently sold, but not the remains of the business. Although the sale was described as a "liquidation sale", it seems that the business simply ceased trading. The land was subsequently redeveloped and the company was finally dissolved and its assets (which were significant) were distributed in 2021.

So I don't think that it is true to say that Myford "went bust".

The new Myford is also a separate company to RDG.

regards Martin

On paper. In practice they are owned by the same people and operate out of the same address in Mytholmroyd. Genuine Myford parts ordered from the Myford website arrive in a package listing the sender as RDG Ltd, in my experience.

The current state of the Myford "factory" is an interesting study. Keith Appleton did a series of promotional videos for them a while back in  a series including the one posted below. Looks like the factory these days at Mytholmroyd is a two or three-man workshop hand-assembling a small number of lathes  from the quite extensive warehouse of parts they keep for the main business — keeping the existing old Myfords running. He says in there somewhere that the casting and machining is done by outside contractors in the Halifax area and surrounds. It does not look like they do much machining in house these days. Perhaps surface grinding the beds, but he is not clear about that, other than saying they still have a surface grinder and a small milling machine.

The other factory videos in Keith's series are quite interesting too.

 

Edited By Hopper on 04/05/2023 05:18:03

Edited By Hopper on 04/05/2023 05:22:12

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