My Toyo ML1

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Yes, it's a self ejecting type, but I had to 'encourage' mine because it was a bit tight. So I used an open end 13mm spanner placed over the back of the chuck taper and then angled it towards the lathe chuck so that it pushed the little chuck away from the tailstock. I then gave it an enthusiastic thump with the heel of my hand and it popped out. From then on it has worked well.

We shouldn't be hammering this little chuck into it's taper by the way, just a quick slide in to wedge it into the taper is enough. Although mine takes a 7mm drill of, I would use very light drilling pressure to avoid stalling the spindle.

Yes, your handwheel is almost fubared, with a domestic electric drill badly by the looks of it. It definitely needs to be bored and sleeved, then a fresh M6 can be tapped through.

((LOL! Forget "Through A Glass Darkly" Let's hope someone publishes "With A Domestic Electric Drill, Badly" !! ))

Here's a toolpost fron Axminster Tools that wil probably suit as it's for the Proxxon. I think that's the current, rebranded, updated, (haha ), version of the ML210.

I'd really like to have a quick release tool post and tool holders. Maybe later as I'm really skint after xmas..

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

I was expecting the same, I just tap it with the gentlest force and the barrel slides out a bit whilst the rest being held back by the tailstock bolt inside the tailstock. Affraid that it will damage any other threading or possible fasteners I just unscrew the entire barrel out. I guess I'll make another attempt later on after repairing the tailstock handwheel.

Pete, I am wondering if there is anything missing on my tailstock.

I include the snapshot here

I replace the tailstock bolt with a paintbrush just for an illustration.

I am wondering if there's supposed to be a bearing, spacer, or bushing apart from the tailstock handwheel.

and is there anything else behind the space of the retaining ring, or in front of the retaining ring since I only have the handwheel that screws into the bolt (paintbrush).

>> On the side, I met a friendly machinist today who is also an electrician repairing coffee machine. He is happy to do the boring and threading for me. And he also happen to know this Toyo lathe .

So, I'm really stoked as he seems to be very passionate about lathe.

He is the one inquiring if there's any bearing on the tailstock. I'm not sure if the ML-1 manual will go this far in detail about the tailstock assemblage. I am wondering if bearing, or spacer can be added to improve the performance.

I had a look at the toolpost at Axminster, and I try to find it here in Australia, it turns out they only have the same one that Pete bought . The one that comes with the compound slide. It's no good for me since I have minimum machining skill and machines to do any adjustment.

I might have to get the one from Axminster, although I am wondering how would it sit on the T-Slot cross slide.

is is just a nut on the T-slot, or some sort of bar, or ring. I don't know.

Have a good weekend.

Warmest greeting from Australia,

Oliver

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Oliver, Is the picture above showing the back of the barrel still in the body of the tailstock or after the barrel was taken out? It looks like what is still in the hole is the 'plug that is normally hard up against the circlip. Show us a picture of all the other bits ie the handle and screw etc. Whether there is something missing depends a bit on what the screw looks like as it should have a flange on it that pushes against a plug that is held in by that circlip.

If the screw goes into a thread in the back of the barrel which is the normal design all you need is to put a shin bar into that hole against the back of the taper and tap it repeatedly, perhaps with some rusty bolt release liquid in there. It also might help to put it in the freezer for an hour then quickly heat the outside with a paint striper gun while tapping the inserted bar.

Later once freed you should always be able to release a taper by retracting the barrel which results in the screw pusing against the back of the taper. however some taper are cut short so the screw doesn't meet them. Note which ones have this problem and put in a litte spacer each time you use that tool. What is more common is the tang on the taper means it is exjected too soon so pwople then cut off the back of the taper, but can cut off too much.

Edited By Bazyle on 31/01/2015 17:16:43

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Oliver, that thing inside the tailstock is a brass bush/thrust washer and that's all there is to it. It stays on one side of the circlip and stops movement in one direction and the handwheel does the other. Nice and simple, and even if we break the circlip I'm sure it'll be a stock size.

Separated. The handwheel turns this coarse left hand thread.

Here's my recommendation for your stuck chuck. (let's not forget that this is a micro lathe and the casr iron parts could be damaged by heavy handed hammering )

Soak the drill chuck and tailstock slider in whatever easing oil you have overnight at the very least. And, if you feel like it, apply a flame to the slider to heat it up, not to red hot, but hot enough so that water evaporates instantly.

Then, re-assemble your tailstock without the handwheel. Use a couple of M6 nuts and lock them together on the thread at the back. Then, wind back a bit of pressure, as if to pull the slider away from the chuck with your 10mm spanner, then put a 17 or 16mm spanner behind the chuck. Use that to lever against the chuck and tap it with a hammer at the same time.

You could also try a brass drift and a few good hefty taps at the back of the chuck.

If that doesn't work realitively easily, you'll need to make up something that looks like a ball joint splitter out of steel, which will apply more pressure as it's also a wedge shape which you will have to tap in to the join before tapping it sideways. Once again, beware ot damaging the cast iron tailstock body.

————-

And this is my original toolpost.

There's an M5 machine screw through from the top and the heavy sleeved 'T' slot thingy measures just under 7mm at the 'neck' and has flats machined to 14mm wide on the 16mm flange. The 7mm 'neck' is 5mm long, so it's actually 2mm clear of the saddle once locked by the screw. The fat part of this one is just under 10mm to suit the hole in the post.

I'm certain that the proxxon one will be close to these sizes, and if slightly bigger, any alterations shouldn't be a problem since you've found a friendly machinist.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Oliver,

Further to Pete's excellent advice … here's another possible approach:

Remove the barrel, as per your first photo.

Find a short length of Brass rod [with a nice flat end], that's a close sliding fit down the screw-thread.

… The rod should only need to stick out about 20mm [*], and can be held in place with a lump of BlueTack.

Hold the barrel [with chuck pointing to the stars] and strike down firmly onto some immoveable object.

… this should knock out the taper without damaging anything except the end of the rod.

MichaelG.

.

[*] That's assuming your reflexes are quick enough .

… if you are worried, use a longer rod.

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

I couldn't thank you all enough. All this I bet is way better thumbing through the manual.

For Pete thank you for taking apart your tailstock, the good pictures, and of course your detailed explaination. Cheers.

and Michael for even more usful tips. I am happy to see this advices keep flowing in, or out, whichever way you prefer

I lubricate and knock apart (gently) what I assume was part of the cast iron body of the tailstock >> it is the Flange.

The brass part which completes the tailstock assembly.

I was lucky not to have to use any other trick other than WD40. but I'll keep in mind that heatgun, Blue Tack, or the fridge. I assume it will comes in handy.

From the photo above, what I couln't show is the bolt which holds the barrel, and the handwheel. They are with the machinist. I will tell him too that the flange in question has been found .

For the tool post, I know how it holds together now. Almost tempted to get it machined than buying and shipped here. see how I go with the handwheel and take it trom there.

I found a link for the Quick change Tool Post which peter might be interested. Yes, Christmas does drain my pocket too, but not the appetite. I'm happy to just get it running properly first.

Cheers,

Oliver

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

Pete,

The 'bolt' with the left hand thread looks exactly with what I have, just different colour . Mine is brownish of the rust, but detail is still sharp.

Michael,

That Blue Tack can't be ignored, when I knock the spacer out, it actually flew off to the floor . Yes, need rubber mat or some sort.

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Heh, those are way too expensive for aluminium parts. In my humble opinion. Why can't they just make 'em in mild steel? It'll last longer than the ally for starters and it should be cheaper as they won't need anidozing.

At Adaero Precision, we make our own work holding fixtures and vice jaws for milling , when normal plain or step vice jaws aren't suitable and special chucks and collets for turning. And I often complain when a fixture gets made in ally. Yes it's easier to machine, and we do install helicoil inserts to the threads, but the clamping faces don't last too long and we have to make another.

But yes, if all you need is a basic tool post, a made up one is super simple. in the near future, I intend to buy or make up a mini sliding vice for small milling jobs. I may even take my saddle to work and drill/ream a few dowel holes for positioning accuracy.

Looking at the pic of my tool post, it's dimensions in that view are as follows:

40 x 40 mm and 35mm across

The cut out starts at 16mm from the base is 16mm high (under the screws) and 10mm deep. Presumably for 10mm tool steel.

At the back is an 8mm through hole, 26mm up from the base, 6mm in from the back edge and paralell to the cutout. This has two short screws for clamping round shank boring bars or maybe as cigarrette holder or whatever.

Hope that helps Oliver

The central hole for the 'T' slot bolt is by no means a close fit on the bolt and no precision should be imagined when adjusting the post by this means.

– – –

Unfortunately I just measured the eccentricity of my main chuck centering (with a dial micrometer borrowed from work) and found an average 0.15mm run out at the workpiece! It's the chuck and not the spindle, so I need to think how I'm going to sort it out. I knew it was out from the first time got it home and turned something, but now I know just how bad it is.

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 01/02/2015 23:34:34:

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

.

Pete,

Remember that, although collets are very convenient, there are other ways of achieving concentricity:

• Start with oversize material, and turn everything at one setting [i.e. do not remove the work from the chuck until the job is complete].
• Turn between centres … for ultimate accuracy, turn between dead centres.
• Use Shellac, on a 'Wax Chuck' [centre the work whilst the Shellac is still warm].

One or more of these methods can be adopted/adapted to suit almost any small turning job.

For some inspiration; have a look around this 'Adventures in Watchmaking' site.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:52:42

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

Just struck me that this is a RC enthusiast forum excuse my ignorance. Turns out to be quite a few fine folks in this forum, just like in woodworking (my trade).

I always like RC planes, but as a kid they were the luxury in toys world. Owning one was like having a Bentley.

But, I grow up, thats good news.

I watched 'Hector and the search for Happiness' last night and they were a snip of them playing RC aeroplane.

Guess if the bug bit, it will be on. Well, I'll fix the lathe first whilst find out more about this forum's hobby.

Australia is quite windy, when it's mad.. it's around 30km/h all day. but of course, not all the time

For the QCTP that I found I guess I was only lured to it because of the wording, it said Unimat, Proxxon, Sakai, etc. Material wise I agree with you. I guess some factory just spit out stuff quick out of softer material and cosmetically decorate it. They are just keeping up with current trend of things that expire quickly .

With that to say… isn't it should be cheaper?

Cheers

ps. checking run out is another thing. heheh, I honestly can't say yet that this lathe I got is running well.

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Aluminium can be hardened/toughened and a deep anodized layer will be harder still, but it isn't steel after all is said and done.

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 02/02/2015 20:56:20

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Posted by elixir oliver on 02/02/2015 08:33:03:

I always like RC planes, but as a kid they were the luxury in toys world. Owning one was like having a Bentley.

But, I grow up, thats good news.

I watched 'Hector and the search for Happiness' last night and they were a snip of them playing RC aeroplane.

Guess if the bug bit, it will be on. Well, I'll fix the lathe first whilst find out more about this forum's hobby.

Australia is quite windy, when it's mad.. it's around 30km/h all day. but of course, not all the time

Not sure where in Aus you're located, but Andrew Newton is an epic maker and flier down in Victoria, where it always seems to be windy! He doesn't seem to do scale planes or much balsa wood stuff. Foam rules!!

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:50:48:

Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 01/02/2015 23:34:34:

I shall have to correct it before I go much further, as one of my tight tolerance requirements for this lathe is turning parts for propeller adapters for my RC planes. And with a prop rotating at 10000 rpm or more, any imbalances must be minimised.

Hmm, I really need a collet holder for increased accuracy.

.

Pete,

Remember that, although collets are very convenient, there are other ways of achieving concentricity:

• Start with oversize material, and turn everything at one setting [i.e. do not remove the work from the chuck until the job is complete].
• Turn between centres … for ultimate accuracy, turn between dead centres.
• Use Shellac, on a 'Wax Chuck' [centre the work whilst the Shellac is still warm].

One or more of these methods can be adopted/adapted to suit almost any small turning job.

For some inspiration; have a look around this 'Adventures in Watchmaking' site.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:52:42

I agree with everything you've said except the shellac stuff. I've never heard of that till now. But it's verrrry interesting and I've found this thread on homemodelenginemachinist.com And now that I've seen it, I agree with that too! I can see the benefits!!

Thanks for opening my eyes Michael. I owe you one!

Edited By Pete Gilbert 1 on 02/02/2015 21:21:57

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Posted by elixir oliver on 26/01/2015 03:01:55:

As this is my first lathe, my limited understanding is trying to get original spareparts. But after reading this post, it seems I could use toolpost from other lathe.

Check out this "Info" page I just found on the Home Model Engine Machinist website.

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

wow…

it's a whole new world to me.

this looks like a seriously addictive stuff!

Thanks for all the links.

Cheers

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

Had a chat with my machinist today. Asking him questions about lathe etc..

Turns out he also recomends.. guess what: Model-engineer magazine. Small world.

Well, he is a bit busy at the moment. So, hopefully by a week something will show up.

I'll post it here again.

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

Pete,

I got the reply from Axminster about the T-slot nut for SIEG C0. From your earlier posting, this seems to be just a waste, isn't it? Perhaps better to get it made.

the parts number 110.

Cheers

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:50:48:

Pete,

Remember that, although collets are very convenient, there are other ways of achieving concentricity:

• Start with oversize material, and turn everything at one setting [i.e. do not remove the work from the chuck until the job is complete].

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/02/2015 06:52:42

Just re-read that and wanted to say that I have no way, at the moment, to cut threads on this lathe, so I'll have to thread my propeller adapter collets manually with a die.

Hmm , no. Actually I will be forming the body of the collet and drill/reaming the centre bore, but not parting it off to the correct length immediately, so that I can turn it around and use the per-pated large diameter to hold on while die cutting the thread with the die holder backed up against the tool post for stability.

This is a prop adpter collet, the thread is M6 on this one. The 'top hat' thing has the matching 'female' taper to compress the collet and the split part of the collet will have a reamed internal bore to fit whatever motor shaft.

Sorry, just thinking out loud there.

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Posted by elixir oliver on 07/02/2015 10:39:30:

Pete,

I got the reply from Axminster about the T-slot nut for SIEG C0. From your earlier posting, this seems to be just a waste, isn't it? Perhaps better to get it made.

the parts number 110.

Cheers

That's the right part Oliver, but yes, it's pretty basic and will only take a few minutes to turn up from a short piece of 16mm bar.

If I was going to make a spare for my tool post, it would go like this.

Clamp bar in chuck.

Face off end,

Center drill to suit thread (M5)

Drill 4.2mm to approx 16mm deep

Start the M5 tap a few turns in by holding it in the drill chuck and gently turning the chucked workpiece by hand. (you have to leave the tailstock free to slide and apply light pressure towards the work) Use tapping grease.

Then release the tap from the drill chuck without disturbing it in the work. Slip a tap handle onto the tap and add a few more turns to the thread so that it can be finished later and will self align.

Remove the tap.

Turn the 10mm diameter

Form the 7mm 'waist'

Start the part off

Withdraw the part off tool and deburr sharp edges. BEWARE OF GETTING TOO CLOSE TO THE LATHE CHUCK WITH A HAND TOOL!!! IT WIIIIIIIILLLLLL BITE !!!!!!

Part off.

Form flats to clear inside your T slot..

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Pete Gilbert 1 on 07/02/2015 18:25:06:

Just re-read that and wanted to say that I have no way, at the moment, to cut threads on this lathe, so I'll have to thread my propeller adapter collets manually with a die. …

Sorry, just thinking out loud there.

.

Pete,

If I follow you correctly:

Rough it out, oversize, and cut the thread with your die.

Now put a bit of scrap in the chuck, and drill & tap M6 … Don't remove it.

Run a nut up the M6 male thread; then screw it into the piece in the chuck, and use the nut to lock it.

Proceed to turn the part to size.

It won't be perfect, but it should be pretty darned good.

MichaelG.

[Pete Gilbert 1Participant @petegilbert1]

Yes, the thread is not so important, because it doesn't specifically align the prop.

The critical areas of the prop adapter are the reamed bore for the motor shaft, the taper and the plain section and step before the thread. Those absolutely must be machined at the same time to maintain concentricity between the motor and alignment the propeller's own central bore.

It will be preferable for me to get the final saw slit prety central too. I may have to make up a similarly M6 threaded chunk of scrap to mount on the toolpost and run a fine circular saw in the lathe chuck.

Also, if I am forced to make my own female taper section, that will be critical too. Mind you, I'm using plastic propellers that are mostly injection molded. So I do have to pre-balance check them off the plane as well, then see if there's any vibration once mounted.

It's all fun in the end. If it's wrong, I launch the plane, the prop vibrates like all hell and then either the motor burns out, the speed controller fails, or the prop shatters.

Hehe! But seriously, it's never nromally that bad.

I recently had to knock up a different type of adapter at work due to my cheap Chinese one being visibly wobbly, and all is well now, with a vibration free flight .

[elixir oliverParticipant @elixiroliver19449]

Pete,

Thanks again for the detailed instruction. I guess I'll just show your message to him .

Well, when he's done that threading of course. I'm stil waiting..

At the moment just looking at other people shining object (propeller adapter collet).

Mind me asking again later when I need to.

Cheers

[Clifton BainParticipant @cliftonbain10015]

Hi Peter – appreciate its been some time since you put this post up. Ive just managed to get a Toyo ML1 from Bay and its a basic model like yours without a carriage power drive unit. Did you find a way to add power as the drive accessory attachment is impossible to find nowadays unless someone here has one available.

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