My new lathe a Warco 918

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Looks suspiciously like a good bargain with all the accessories. Think of what it would cost to buy the ER chuck and collets, apart from the QCP, steadies, live centre and drill chucks!

Hours of enjoyment await you!

Howard

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 10/07/2019 16:55:57:

Looks suspiciously like a good bargain with all the accessories. Think of what it would cost to buy the ER chuck and collets, apart from the QCP, steadies, live centre and drill chucks!

Hours of enjoyment await you!

Howard

Thats what I thought Howard and of course the bonus of the Burnerd 6 inch 4 jaw, I checked on line and they are around the £400/450 mark and the one with the lathe is like new. Thats why I couldnt understand that despite its age its in really good condition with a VFD drive, the mods and all the tooling and there was no interest, before I phoned I thought it would have been snapped up, but no, maybe I,m missing something.

Ron

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Hi Ron

Seems like you picked up a nice piece of kit. Looks to be in very good condition and you got LOADS of stuff with it ! Don't think I would worry too much about the age of it if it has been looked after well. and no bits are missing or have fallen off. Remember what they say "The older the fiddle, the sweeter the tune "

You appear to have enough stuff there to get going right away, so get stuck in !

And yes, it was worth the trip ,forget about the roadworks ! Good luck and happy turning.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:15:06

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:21:54

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:14:27:

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:15:06

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:21:54

Ron

Spot on.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by David Standing 1 on 10/07/2019 19:58:30:

Posted by Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:14:27:

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:15:06

Edited By Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:21:54

Ron

Spot on.

Thanks David, it probably seemed obvious but I thought I would check as I read a while back about seating/clamping problems someone was having and that was something to do with the way they were fitted.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

The lathe spindle runs in taper roller bearings, they are original and still feel very good. I can just access the inner faces by removing a plate and would like to give them some lubrication just to be sure they are not drying out.

I have read all sorts about lubricating taper rollers, some say oil, some say grease (but not too much) some say they need frequent lube others say not. There is no provision for oiling other than an oil can from inside the head cavity, so it been a dry head I assume grease which I could push in with a finger. The manual has a lubrication plan but there is no mention of the spindle bearings.

How do you guys approach spindle taper rollers.

Ron

[VicParticipant @vic]

Looks nice Ron. Unless it’s hiding in the pictures somewhere one of your first mods could be to make a carriage stop.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For automotive wheel bearings taper rollers are grease lubricated and need a small endfloat, but for machine tool use they need a preload to maintain accuracy.

Excessive preload will, as you may expect, cause failure, as will poor or no lubrication.

Maybe the compromise between oil and grease would be a gear lubricant like SAE 90 or SAE 140?

My BL12-24 manual quotes the bearings as being C7210 and C7211, but does not specify type, or what preload, if any, should be applied. The recommended lubricant appears to be a fairly thin oil such as a SAE30.

Any comments from importers on preferred types and grades of lubricant, and extent of preload for various types of rolling bearings?

Hopefully, correctly adjusted and lubricated bearings will be extremely durable.

Howard

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

There should be two ball oilers on the top of the headstock. The grizzly manual specifies ISO 32 oil (equivalent to SAE 10W) I used to use a 10W/50 motor oil.

The Grizzly manual can be downloaded here

Russell

[Anonymous]

Posted by Ron Laden on 11/07/2019 07:49:14:

How do you guys approach spindle taper rollers

At an angle; I find a couple of beers beforehand helps with getting the optimum angle.

My lathe uses Gamet super precision opposed roller bearings. The manual says nothing about lubrication, and there are no oil points for the bearings. The geared headstock is filled with an ISO68 hydraulic oil, which splash lubricates the spindle gears. I assume the same oil must also lubricate the spindle bearings. The manual gives the spindle torque needed for correct preload and how to measure it, and then strongly advises against even thinking about it. I've never touched the bearings in the last 20 odd years.

Andrew

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks guys,

Russell my lathe doesnt have the two oilers as shown in the Grizzly manual so maybe my machine pre-dates the Grizzly version. Actually I noticed the lathes date on the serial plate Aug-96 so 23 years next month, older than I thought. Also I cant quite see how those oilers on top of the head can work, if the bearings are fitted like mine then a hole down from the oiler would come up against the outer face of the bearing which is pressed into its machined mount so a dead end so to speak. The oil wouldnt be able to travel anywhere, I can see it would if the bearing mount had a keyway type channel cut into it. The oil would then run out over the ends of the bearing, some of which would then get into the bearing.

Anyway its oil can to the ready me thinks.

Ron

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Lathejack on 05/07/2019 12:49:48:

I have always had a soft spot for the Far Eastern made 918 and 920 lathes, they have been produced for many years and offered by many suppliers with some examples being quite well made. Early version were made in Taiwan, but I'm not sure if yours at 21 years old is made in Taiwan or China.

The 918 was based on the earlier Austrian made versions of the Emco Compact 8 lathe, in Emco language Compact means basic. So when I was a lad I was always impressed with the 918's addition of a Norton type quick change screwcutting gearbox with 9 feed rates with a row of 9 little cup oilers sat on top.

Plus the 918 also has a longitudinal power feed built into the apron, so you can quickly flick from a fine feed to a thread pitch and back again, and only need to engage the leadscrew thread for screw cutting.

I agree. The only downside with this lathe is the need to slip belts for speed changes, that’s easily overcome these days though by fitting a new 3 phase motor and invertor. With that job done are there any modern lathes of a similar size that can match it?

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Ron, do not worry about the age of your machine. I have an Excel branded 14"x40" lathe made in Taiwan in 1996.

Second hand when I bought it and has done a lot of work over the last 8 years in my ownership. No accuracy problems but I did have to make a new cross slide, partly due to wear mainly due to abuse by former owner. I wanted to beef it up and add tee slots so a worthwhile mod.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Vic on 12/07/2019 09:23:00:

With that job done are there any modern lathes of a similar size that can match it?

1960s Raglan 5"? Almost certainly cheaper, for a start!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by not done it yet on 12/07/2019 12:10:27:

Posted by Vic on 12/07/2019 09:23:00:

With that job done are there any modern lathes of a similar size that can match it?

1960s Raglan 5"? Almost certainly cheaper, for a start!

.

Does that ^^^ qualify as modern ?

… I thought the Raglan was evidence that 'they don't build them that good these days'

MichaelG.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

George you asked what mods have been added to the lathe, below is a short video (not great-hand held) that shows most of them.

List of mods in no particular order:

Tailstock clamping lock changed to lever type, lathe drive converted to 3 phase/VFD, carriage/way wipers changed to felt, carriage lock changed to Bristol handle, main lead screw drive mod to give forward and reverse, heavy duty 4 bolt top slide mount, top slide and cross slide both have better quality lead screws and nuts with ballrace mounts, both slides have heavier brass gibs and additional adjusting screws, tool post changed to QCTP and rear tool post with mounting plate added.

So quite a few mods/additions the bulk of which is to the top and cross slide and they have been very well engineered.

The only addition I am going to add is a DRO for the spindle speed, they dont cost much and work well, I put one on the mill.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I remember the adverts for these first appearing on the pages of ME and wishing I could afford one. There must be huge numbers of them around with slight variations in paint colour.
Hence I would suggest someone should invent a second stage for the QCGB to give the powers of two and write it up for MEW.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Well the lathe may have a number of modifications and improvements but at 23 years…. the bottom line…does it work ok..?

I have done quite a bit of work with it this weekend (mainly tests) and fortunately all seems well, I turned alu and steel and got a nice finish with both. I did some parting off with a 1.5mm tool front mounted and that had no issues. It does have a rear tool post but I havnt got a suitable sized tool for that just yet. I tried a thread cutting test, not the full thread but the first few passes and that went well and was good to size. All seems to work and I havnt found any issues plus the VFD is nice to use.

Apparently the taper roller spindle bearings are original and they feel good. I clocked the spindle plate and that had 0.0015" runout and the same for the rear flange end of the 3 jaw. I put up a piece of ground bar using the 3 jaw and that was good to just under a thou so more than happy with that. I havnt pushed it too far yet but took some 3mm cuts in alu and 2mm in steel and they were fine, no issues re torque.

So it may be getting on a bit but it still does the job, I just hope it continues but cant see why not.

Ron

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:14:27:

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Tip: do them up as tight as you can with the supplied spanner. They 'like' being tight for accuracy and grip and won't be damaged if holding work in their capacity range, the standard torque is surprisingly high and hard to achieve by hand.

Neil

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/07/2019 01:50:45:

Posted by Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:14:27:

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Tip: do them up as tight as you can with the supplied spanner. They 'like' being tight for accuracy and grip and won't be damaged if holding work in their capacity range, the standard torque is surprisingly high and hard to achieve by hand.

Neil

Thanks Neil, I didnt know that.

Ron

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ron Laden on 15/07/2019 06:57:16:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/07/2019 01:50:45:

Posted by Ron Laden on 10/07/2019 19:14:27:

Its my first time with ER collets, would I be right in thinking that the correct fitting procedure is to first fit the collet into the nut, (you can sort of feel it clip in) and then fit the nut to the chuck body, checking its correctly seated..

Ron

Tip: do them up as tight as you can with the supplied spanner. They 'like' being tight for accuracy and grip and won't be damaged if holding work in their capacity range, the standard torque is surprisingly high and hard to achieve by hand.

Neil

Thanks Neil, I didnt know that.

Ron

There's a posh version of the nut with a ball-bearing in it that's easier to tighten too: ArcEuro's page here.

Also, a good description of clicking the collet in.

Not essential, but ball-bearing collet nuts are definitely a step up.

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

Ron, if your collet chuck had a standard nut remove it and place it in the cupboard and get one of the Ball bearing type like this.

**LINK**

Quite often I don’t even bother using the spanner for some small stuff, I just close it with my hand.

Edit: Dave beat me to it whilst I was typing!

Edited By Vic on 15/07/2019 11:07:02

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Dave and Vic, something else I have learnt this morning, didnt know about the ball bearing type collet nuts will get one on order.

Cheers

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But don't forget which cupboard you put the nut in as the standard ones can be very useful to give that bit more room where you need to get into tight spaces or close to clamps etc as they are a bit smaller and often tapered at the end.

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