My little engine.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Just managed to do the fixing holes and spot face one of the top bearing 'caps' today.. Not long to do..

Checking the size of the fixing nuts a/c for spot facing – used a 10mm End Mill..

Setup used on the Mill to drill the 4mm 2BA Clearance Holes for the bearing 'caps' – and to spot face..

I must get around to lengthening the threads on my clamping studs to avoid having to use so many clamp pieces..

Couldn't use my vice, when I looked carefully the jaws do seem to sometimes be 'rising' or at least pushing the work up when tightened – as Jason suggested they might earlier.. I know the studs won't fit properly unless the holes are bang on vertical.. Have to get a new decent one soon..

The work turned around to do the other side..

Test fitting on the bottom bearing half (just lined up by hand, not fixed) – far from perfect, but not too bad I hope – ready for soldering together, drilling and boring (1).

Test fitting on the bottom bearing half (just lined up by hand, not fixed) – far from perfect, but not too bad I hope – ready for soldering together, drilling and boring (2)

The other one to do now.

Regards.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Ian

Yes, as Jason says – talking about studs just for clamping. I have a feeling whoever designed my clamping studs has never had to use them, I nearly always have to use more than one 'clamp' per stud to be able to tighten.. A continuous thread would seem to make much more sense for that job..

Hi Jason

Thanks, I've used Tracy a lot so its good to have that link, I think they will be useful..

Ready for some more soldering now after doing the fixing holes on the other bearing cap. Been wondering a bit how the initial drilling of the bearing 'permanent pairs' through on the join is going to go… and hoping that at least having the cobalt bits now will maybe increase the odds of success… The gunmetal was 'grabbing' at the bit when simply drilling the bearing caps – imagine it may be worse on the join. Yet another first at that..

No washers on the bearing cap drawings by the way – but something to remember to check before spot facing in the future!

A few more photo's finishing the fixing holes..

The second bearing cap with fixing holes and spot faced..

Test fitting both bearing caps – just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 1.

Test fitting both bearing caps – just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 2.

Test fitting both bearing caps – just lined up by hand, not fixed yet 3.

The photo shows it doesn't line up perfectly on the housing, bit too long on the one end – but it's not too bad..

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

No nuts (washers..) is quite prototypical on a motor or other machinery of this type.

That's interesting and good to know, thanks Ian.

Anyone following is probably sick of seeing photo's of my bearings by now – if so click away now – because here's a couple more!

Time has been against me the last few days but hope to start drilling them tomorrow…

Temporary soldering of the first bearing pair.

The first bearing pair after soldering. Looking a bit sorry for itself..

After a quick cleanup again – checking the alignment is still ok after soldering – and before drilling.

I've been getting a bit paranoid after reading of problems drilling brass and gunmetal. Especially after experiencing the drill bit grabbing when enlarging the pilot hole in simply drilling the fixing holes for the caps – on every hole as well… Julian has kindly given me some pointers about the need to 'back off' the drill bit rake angle for Gunmetal. I've found this little video helpful in understanding a bit more – the example is in plastic but I believe would apply to Brass and Gunmetal as well.. **LINK**

I think I will try to do myself before starting..

Regards.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

I'm wondering if the misalignment will bore out in situ on the lathe cross slide. The finished bore needs to be 12.7mm. Since the bearing joint failed and I re-soldered I've had a boring bar through and the hole I guess would be about 8mm at the moment. The photos show the re-soldering has misaligned the bearing halfs'. I wondered what others would do – from the perspective of this being only an all time project no. 2 that is. I can't expect anything like 'brilliant' yet of course and should maybe see if I can get away with it and put it down to experience? Or should I redo?

This after the joint had failed and re-soldered – and me thinking I could get in with a small boring bar.

My smallest boring bar that would be long enough..

This would be the 'front face' in the housing. It looked much worse yesterday with all the re-soldering marks etc.

The front face again. 2.

This is the 'rear face' or internal face when in the housing – you can plainly see after re-soldering the misalignment.

In the housing – again you can see the misalignment on the housing 'block'..

In the housing – again you can see the misalignment on the housing 'block' 2..

In the housing – again you can see the misalignment on the housing 'block' 3.

I would be grateful for any opinions – from an all time no.2 project that is. I imagine many on here wouldn't dream of continuing with it, but remembering back to when you were starting out….?

I've certainly learned from it, which is always a good thing… Strangely I have developed quite a fond memory of some of Victoria's mistakes that still sit on the engine.. I have to improve on that though this time around..

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Todays little bit of progress is to get the 2nd bearing halfs' soldered together, cleaned up enough to get back in the housing to check the fit and get setup on the mill for drilling and milling the hole to 8mm – ready to go onto the lathe..

Photo –

The setup ready to drill and mill the bearing to 8mm. Not tightened down yet so the table is not left under torque until I can do it…

The photo's not very clear but the bearing is in a kind of cradle of parallel's which I hope will help support the solder joint when drilling, and stop things moving around – all really because my current vice not good enough to use for this..

and my centre finder to line the mill up..

Regards

Allan

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

My bearings turning into a bit of a saga I think. Hope not everyone has given up on me yet though and some still finding it as interesting as I do…

This morning I made a start on the bore for the second bearing, intending to go to 10mm (not 8mm as previously said) ready to go on the lathe… After putting a 10mm Slot mill through the 'bad' bearing to sort out the wonky hole they should then be pretty close for further work..

The first slot mill about to be put through – 8mm

All going well with the slot mill, nice and smooth, no 'grabbing' of the work then progress stopped. I couldn't understand it for a while – then I realised that the Slot Mill had a 'shoulder' on it and I had reached it's maximum depth. None of my other Slot Mills have a shoulder – just this one! Unlucky again or just stupid for not noticing – don't answer that! Anyway my next Slot Mill size is 10mm (no shoulder) so off I go with that one, and again all going well until i come to the bottom of the hole and about to break through. As I hadn't reached the bottom with the last Mill it was now asking too much of the Mill and it stopped dead – and would not restart. I was glad I had used all the clamps and 'cradle' or I'm sure I would be redoing the bearing at this point otherwise… In all the work I have done with the mill to date I have never even seen it slow down let alone stop dead. I feel justified and glad of being so wary of the Gunmetal now and in taking all the precautions. Its tricky stuff if not used to it I think – drilling steel is a doddle by comparison!

Photo of the 8mm Slot Mill with the shoulder – and another, as per all my others, with no shoulder. I'll be checking for this sort of thing in future!

Luckily its just a blown fuse. The one blown is 6A, the Mill came with two spare fuses both 10A. Fitted one of those, best get another 6A to go back in I think. The Mill was fine again then.

The end results though are not too bad. This is one side of the 'second' bearing at 10mm bore. Needs cleaning up lots more, but has yet to be de-soldered again of course so I haven't been too fuss

This side 2 of the 'second' bearing. Not quite aligned. Will definitely be trying Loctite next time for this kind of thing which should be much cleaner and hopefully much easier to align properly…

Test fitting the 'second' bearing in its housing. The alignment not too bad.

Next to drill and tap the stud holes for fixing and then onto the Lathe…

Regards

Allan

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Another little update – fixing the bearings to the housing..

Spotting through the Bearing fixing holes to the Sole Plate. 2BA Tapping Size.

Tapping the 2BA Bearing fixing holes in the Sole Plate.

The Bearing studs in place on the Sole Plate.

After opening out the Bearing fixing holes to 2BA clearance size – test fitting the bearings in the housings 1.

(Bearings not cleaned up yet)

After opening out the Bearing fixing holes to 2BA clearance size – test fitting the bearings in the housings 2.

(Bearings not cleaned up yet)

Next step is to de-solder and then onto the Lathe…

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

I wasn't sure to post this up, but it is really all part of the engine build so here goes – apologies to the some that will likely not be interested… Making the Between Centers' Boring Bar…I didn't have a 3/8 inch bar (that would have been a perfect size for the bearings) – so I had to turn a larger bar down a bit… The Final Bar length will be 8.5 inches..

The bar turned to 9.5mm.Centering the bar on the mill ready to drill the tool bit hole. I've ordered some 1/8" round tool steel.. Drilled the hole to 3.2mm. Don't have the tool steel yet to test fit – may have to open out a bit perhaps…In case anyone is wondering about the paper – my V Blocks did not come as a pair…Center Drilling first..Tool Bit hole drilled to 3.2mm.I had marked horizontally through the end diameter when drilling the tool bit hole to use to rotate 90 degrees to drill the grub screw hole..1st time I had tried tapping on the mill – and it was great.. 2.5mm M3 Tapping Size.Test fitting the M3 grub screw. The length had to be cut to fit…The grub screw in and cut to a length that will not protrude outside of the OD when tightened on the tool steel..The finished Between Centres Boring bar – waiting for the tool steel and grinder to turn up. (3MM drill bit through the tool hole to illustrate only..)Found a grinder for £20 – don't know what it will be like – and £2 for some tool steel. Hoping now i will be able to grind a suitable cutting edge when it arrives. Its already been dispatched apparently..

Regards

Allan.

Edited By Allan. on 28/05/2014 20:00:20

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thought I would quickly put up a photo of my new Grinder – its tiny! I was going to use it in my workmate but think I'll likely use it in the vice, seems to run nice and smooth – the little bolts I used for fixing clamp down the rubber cups that were fitted under the base (included) so no vibration at all . Don't know how much I will use it yet and it would only be for small things I'm sure. Great for £20 incl del. – and the tool steel's arrived and fits my boring bar perfectly..

Wont be fitting the 'eye' guards as I would never use without full face safety wear…

1/8" Tool Steel fits perfectly in the boring bar 3.2mm hole..

May not get the chance to try grinding the tool until tomorrow though.. Regards Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

I was hoping someone may take a quick look at these (rather poor again I'm afraid) photo's please – apologies my iPhone having trouble focussing in on the small size..

Am I very far off from this being suitable for the between ctrs boring of my gunmetal bearings? I would guess this taken less than 60 secs to do so not expecting it to be correct. If anyone can give me any pointers I would be very grateful. Tool steel diameter is 1/8".

Many thanks.

First attempt at tool grinding for the between Centres Boring Bar 1.

First attempt at tool grinding for the between Centres Boring Bar 2.

First attempt at tool grinding for the between Centres Boring Bar 3.

Regards.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks John

I did break one a few weeks backs now and threw it out! Hadn't thought about doing any future grinding then but will keep them in future. Yes I can see its going to be a bit fiddly adjusting the cuts but I imagine something that gets easier the more you times you do it – hope so anyway!

Just had another go at grinding again trying to get close to Jason's drawings. Its been much harder trying to get a couple of decent photo's than it was to do the grinding – and i've failed miserably, the iPhone just not focussing down that close..

Anyways here is a couple of the photos that I'm hoping will show if its useable or not. I did two but they are pretty much exactly the same.

Here is one of them..

2nd attempt at grinding the tool for the between ctrs boring bar 1.

2nd attempt at grinding the tool for the between ctrs boring bar 2.

2nd attempt at grinding the tool for the between ctrs boring bar 3.

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Bob and John – I don't have an oilstone yet but am going to get one. Missed your 'radius' solution before going back to the workshop – but it was good to have another play on the grinder..

Jason, if you would take another look sometime I would be grateful. No probs if its not right and I need to try again..

Its photographing this one that is the real problem for me..

3rd time lucky maybe?

3rd attempt at grinding the tool for the between cts boring bar 1

3rd attempt at grinding the tool for the between cts boring bar 2.

3rd attempt at grinding the tool for the between cts boring bar 3.

3rd attempt at grinding the tool for the between cts boring bar 4. Trying to show there is a slight top rake..

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Some more progress today – straightening the bore in the 'bad' bearing, desoldering and cleaning up both bearings and testing the boring bar size through both bearings in situ..

Straightening the hole in the 'bad' bearing – this went well using a 10mm slot mill, lots of cutting fluid and no problems this time.. The hole's still not quite right, very close now – but the boring bar should hopefully sort that out…

Testing the boring bar size through both bearings in situ 1.

Testing the boring bar size through both bearings in situ 2.

Ready to go onto the Lathe now.

Thinking about boring on the Lathe next and I'm afraid that I now realise that I'm unsure of the idea behind the split bearing. On Victoria the bearings were one piece and it was 'simply' a matter of boring the bearing to fit the crankshaft, or at least that's what I did. I'm assuming the idea of the split bearing is to allow the bearing to be 'adjusted / tightened down' for wear. Someone on here (this thread), sorry I must look back to see who it was, was recently explaining I think that the top bearing half is meant to tighten down on the bottom bearing half not on the bearing housing – which mine do so that's ok I hope. So I think I'm just unsure of – do I aim to make the crankshaft diameter slightly oversize to allow for such an adjustment and not slightly undersize as per the one piece bearing or should the bearing bore be exactly the same size as the crankshaft – I guess once the crankshaft goes undersize there can be no adjusting / tightening up, but that somehow does't sound quite right maybe? Hope that explains my lack of understanding..

I think I can remember someone saying when I was doing Victoria's 'one piece' bearings that they should be split afterwards – I can see that this would allow adjustment for undersize / wear adjustment as the metal removed when splitting would change the diameter allowing thus to do – hope someone can see why I'm unsure of what to aim at….

If anyone can explain I would be grateful.. At the end of the day I may not be able to work to the tolerances needed anyway but nevertheless it would be good to understand the concept, and especially for when using better equipment in the future…

Regards

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

I've just had a brilliant few hours in the workshop starting to bore my bearings…

I did as Jason suggested and used the corner of one of the grinding wheels, a slight tap with the hammer (I put a rag over as John suggested) – it snapped so easily I think I could have used my fingers… Two seconds to do.. I spent ages trying to cut with a hacksaw – will never try that again..!

The little tool after grinding back to length for the boring bar..

Setting up to bore the bearings on the lathe. I couldn't get this quite perfect due to the still slightly bad hole – as a result of having to re-solder earlier.

Starting to use the between ctrs boring bar. This is working like a dream, really great to be using after making it. No signs of any problems with the tool grabbing or anything like that, smooth as you like….

Starting to use the between ctrs boring bar 2. You can see that the bearings needed to be lined up by boring or drilling etc – in situ

I found it very enjoyable and yet another first for me..

Regards

Allan

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Jason's excellent post with guidelines for grinding the Between Centres Boring Bar tool..

Here you go.

View looking along the bar, hopefully you can see that I have cut the edge back at a radius so it does not run on the hole below the centre line.

A view from above, the work is set to move away from the chuck eg towards the right.

Looking horizontally, you can see the slight top rake of the cutter which slopes down from the cutting edge

And an overall view, I will e-mail you a PDF of this which you can move about and zoom in on.

Thanks Jason.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

and this post from Jason concerning my first 2 efforts at grinding the tool…

Just as well I poped in from the workshop.

To my eye the one you have done looks a bit pointy and if the cut surface was magnified would be very much line a fine pitch screw thread.

If you look at the second sketch I did from above you should see that the front of the tool is about 10deg from a line taken across the lathe and likewise the side of teh tool about 10deg from a line along the lathes axis. When magnified this would give the impression of a much flatter series of Vees and result in a smoother bearing.

Yoy can click all of these images to get them larger, I have added teh actual angles to this one I was just eyeballing them when I drew it so don't try to match them exactly its just to give an idea or what to aim for.

Its a very great shame to have lost all the other contributory posts, but can't be helped. It would have taken ages to copy them all over…

That brings the thread back to where it was. New progress to follow.

I hope that maybe at least a few members will still like to follow and contribute into this new thread…

Regards

Allan.

 

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Time to try and go forward again with another little update..

First a little video of first time using the between ctrs boring bar I made. This was the first pass in getting them lined up. The bearings look terrible in this but have been gradually been getting better with more time on them.. I think I may have had trouble doing this with a drill bit until they were both in line – at least on my little lathe anyway and especially with the Gunmetal. The videos not very good, taken again with the old iPhone..

 

Reaming the Bearings to 1/2 inch with the new 'chuck' reamer.

 

The Bore after reaming.

Drilling the Oil Holes on the Mill.

Showing the Oil Cups needed spot facing.

Spot Facing the oil cup holes.

The Oil Cup after Spot Facing – a slightly smaller cutter would have been better and a slightly deeper cut.

Both Oil Cups 1.

Both Oil Cups 2.

Both Oil Cups 3.

The bore after reaming 2.

Progress so far 1 – I've hardly started…

Progress so far 2 – I've hardly started…

 

The bearings are done now. There're not very pretty, but its been a great education. I think I went wrong in trying to use my basic vice to get the blocks to size, not knowing the vice wasn't up to it at the time especially with the Gunmetal. The initial blocks didn't end up square, there was pressure then from clamping, contributing to the solder joint failure – my theory anyway, but I'm pretty sure its not far off. However they may not look too good, but they should be perfectly in line, horizontal and the bores feel great – so should do the job..

 

I'm looking forward now to having a go at the Crankshaft. A first time at building completely from scratch – Victoria's were part cast..

 

Regards

Allan.

 

Edited By Allan. on 30/05/2014 17:26:50

Edited By JasonB on 30/05/2014 18:01:04

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looking good and I have added the videos.

J

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Great, thanks Jason – that's much better than the links I had…. My Computer OS is very old now which didn't help I think, have to get it updated..

Cheers

Allan

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi allan,

that looks excellent and what a wonderful job you have done on some very tricky components! everything else should be relatively easy by comparison!

i can see you making miniature worsted trimmings for those lovely oilers – have you an old tweed jacket?

cheers,

julian

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks Julian!

You've got me looking to find out about 'worsted trimmings' – something else I've learned today..!

I must have a go at that in future – when things start to get larger I hope..

No tweed jacket yet – but a 'tweedy' cap may not be far off!

Cheers

Allan.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Allan.

Don't beat yourself up over the bearings.

I dare say the originals were not perfect, remember they were done to sell and use, not polish.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Cheers John, you're right of course, and the truth is I've leant a lot more having the problems than I ever would have done getting them right first time – feels like its good experience and I'm learning anyway..

Regards

Allan.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

One thing ( sure you were going to do)..mark the bearing parts to pair up with housings
You have taking some care to machine true …nice to preserve that alignment…

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Jason

Yes thanks, will do. I'm waiting on some bits and pieces now to make a start on the Crankshaft. I don't seem to have accumulated much in the way of useful 'spares' yet (although I do have some now) and I needed to order something to make 2 'throwplates' from and some small Cap Screws which I thought to use to join the 'webs' together for drilling – having them recessed below the surfaces to allow machining together over the tops, before eventually being cut away… I did at least have some silver steel to use for pinning. The drawings give options to Silver Solder or use Loctite to assemble the Crankshaft (both options with pinning) – so I've ordered some Loctite 638 which seems to be an appropriate one I hope. I've been doing some reading on this while waiting and found a great list here **LINK**

Its going to be really interesting to do..

Cheers

Allan.

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