My cruise

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If you don't want to be exposed to covid then avoiding major public use areas/places is the only way to go

Otherwise you will always be "in the zone"

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 12/10/2022 09:21:50:

Interested to know if P & O prices fell in line with the reduction in quality?

Tony

Apart from a successful legal complaint and individual good-will gestures, the world of buying and selling doesn't work like that. Be nice if it did, but life is tough. What does reduce prices is customers doing due diligence and not buying on faith. Prices drop when people stop buying.

My view that brand-names and trade marks are fundamentally untrustworthy is a hobby-horse, but nonetheless I'll try and bang the point home again. I say believing one ship or cruise-line is better or worse than others, or that companies registered in one country will do better than those registered in another is building on sand! A few seconds research on the web for "P&O Iona complaints" reveals lots of dissatisfied customers, for example Trustpilot shows 76% of 946 contributors giving P&O only 1 star, with reasons very like Morty's. Although people are more likely to complain than praise, 76% is cause for concern. A number of reviews point to staff shortages on a full ship, which could be bad luck – illness etc – or a persistent management problem. The ship being full suggests P&O have no difficulty attracting customers, perhaps because they trusted the brand rather than checking recent experience.

The original 'Peninsular and Orient Steam Navigation Company' was British, but the original company is long gone, following the usual sequence of mergers and acquisitions that companies get involved in over several decades. Today, PO Cruises is a brand operated by Carnival Corporation of Miami, Florida, and PO Ferries is owned by DP World of Dubai.

Holidays on the Cruel Sea can get much nastier than a disappointing buffet! PO Cruises are in the same group as the Costa Concordia, where the Captain abandoned ship leaving the passengers to save themselves after irresponsibly running his ship on the rocks (32 dead). PO Ferries are descended from the group operating the Herald of Free Enterprise, a roll-on roll-off ferry where the crew forgot to close the bow doors (193 dead). But catastrophes are unlikely and many people enjoy cruising. A colleague sailed on over a dozen cruises whilst I knew him and he said best holidays ever. But bear in mind that anecdotal evidence is carp, good or bad. The truth is revealed by the combined experiences of many people. There will always be outliers of exceptionally good and exceptionally bad experiences; what purchasers need to look for is the average experience.

Nothing has changed since the Romans: caveat emptor (buyer beware)

Dave

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 12/10/2022 10:31:25

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Roman cruises were cheaper with the opportunity for plenty of fresh air, exercise and adventure..

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Morty, ship my friend went on was Azura.

Bill D.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

PO Ferries are descended from the group operating the Herald of Free Enterprise, a roll-on roll-off ferry where the crew forgot to close the bow doors

They didn't "forget to close the doors" Dave, it was a regular practice to set off before the doors were closed to save time when departing .

I witnessed this myself on a departure from Dover on a TT ferry not long before the Herald disaster – I had arrived early for my booked crossing on my motorcycle & was told I could get on the earlier one that was about to depart if I got a move on. The ramp was pulled up after I got on board & I was told to secure my bike against the hull close to the bow doors – there were lashing points there & motorcyclists were given a hank of grubby rope to secure their own bike as best they could. I was stood next to the open bow doors tying the bike down as the ship manoevered in the harbour & made towards the exit into the Channel.

I have used North Sea Ferries from Hull since the late '80s & have witnessed a steady decline in the quality of the service since it was re-branded P & O Ferries. The decline has accelerated in the last couple of years. I have just recently managed to take the last of two crossings I paid for over 2 1/2 years ago (Covid issues – P & O would not issue refunds, only "credits for future travel" ) & it will be my last with them. Getting food poisoning in the restaurant on the return crossing wasn't the end to my holiday that I was expecting & a new low even by their declining standards.

NSF used to use an advertising slogan along the lines of "Why drive South ? " for their services – to avoid P &O Ferries from Hull is reason enough for me now. Stena from Harwich next year.

Nigel B.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When the Herald of Free Enterprise capsized I write to my mp suggesting that it would be simple to fit an interlock so that the ship could not go forward if the bow doors were open, ditto reverse. I received a verbose but badly argued response from whichever minister was responsible stating that the captain had to be in full command of the ship at all times. Relying on someone checking that the door is shut on a process repeated many times a day is bound to go wrong. Humans make mistakes more frequently than we like to admit.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by duncan webster on 13/10/2022 00:49:16:

When the Herald of Free Enterprise capsized I write to my mp suggesting that it would be simple to fit an interlock so that the ship could not go forward if the bow doors were open, ditto reverse. I received a verbose but badly argued response from whichever minister was responsible stating that the captain had to be in full command of the ship at all times. Relying on someone checking that the door is shut on a process repeated many times a day is bound to go wrong. Humans make mistakes more frequently than we like to admit.

Yes an 'accident' waiting to happen? I believe they use cameras and other methods to check the door closing now?

Tony

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The main problem at sea is staffing levels, decent experienced people cost money

Plus there are an awful lot of get-out-of-jail-free legal holes in the maritime laws

Staff are often expendable, since the insurance will cover any management decisions which end in disaster

Piracy off Somalia etc was a good example, none of those ships would have gone anywhere near that coast if the insurance companies had not provided cover

There was a standing joke at sea in the 80s.

Israeli ships never get hijacked because they can shoot back

edit: I left in the mid 1980s because things were getting so bad, everything from bad food to skeleton staffing levels to a 100% increase in the length of trips served drove huge numbers of people out

Edited By Ady1 on 13/10/2022 09:45:31

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 13/10/2022 09:06:35:

Posted by duncan webster on 13/10/2022 00:49:16:

When the Herald of Free Enterprise capsized I write to my mp suggesting that it would be simple to fit an interlock so that the ship could not go forward if the bow doors were open, ditto reverse. I received a verbose but badly argued response from whichever minister was responsible stating that the captain had to be in full command of the ship at all times. Relying on someone checking that the door is shut on a process repeated many times a day is bound to go wrong. Humans make mistakes more frequently than we like to admit.

Yes an 'accident' waiting to happen? I believe they use cameras and other methods to check the door closing now?

Tony

A camera doesn't check that the door is closed, it still requires a human to look at it.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by duncan webster on 13/10/2022 14:31:50:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 13/10/2022 09:06:35:

Posted by duncan webster on 13/10/2022 00:49:16:

When the Herald of Free Enterprise capsized I write to my mp suggesting that it would be simple to fit an interlock so that the ship could not go forward if the bow doors were open, ditto reverse. I received a verbose but badly argued response from whichever minister was responsible stating that the captain had to be in full command of the ship at all times. Relying on someone checking that the door is shut on a process repeated many times a day is bound to go wrong. Humans make mistakes more frequently than we like to admit.

Yes an 'accident' waiting to happen? I believe they use cameras and other methods to check the door closing now?

Tony

A camera doesn't check that the door is closed, it still requires a human to look at it.

I'm presuming the 'other methods' I mentioned are part of a multi layered checking process now.

Tony

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by pgk pgk on 12/10/2022 10:44:56:

Roman cruises were cheaper with the opportunity for plenty of fresh air, exercise and adventure..

If only cruise liners were as clean that one. Not a bit of fluff muck or dust in sight.

regards

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Pleased to say that we now have a full refund of cruise, excursions and travel insurance following complaint to chief exec of P&O. (in these days of 'Do not reply' messages from large organisations it was refreshing to find an email address for the top man.

I think they accepted that the on line medical questionnaire was badly designed (it was withdrawn shortly after our complaint)

Still took a long time but we got there, some faith restored.

Bill D.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Whilst on the subject of cruises myself and wifey have booked a northern lights trip from London to the coast of Norway well up into the artic circle (15 nights) in November

has anyone done this before or similar and can advise any tips? What to take to wear what photo equipment to take..do we see much daylight?

Ian

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Seem to remember that the White Star Line [of Titanic fame ], became the P and O line.

Same attitude seems to have applied.

How little changes !

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Ian, For daylight , it will depend on how far North you go, by the time you get up near the north cape there will be not much. As for the Northern lights, I went to the pub one night (in Norfolk ) and saw them, amazing ! Noel.

Edited By noel shelley on 01/07/2023 10:07:31

[Paul Stone 1Participant @paulstone1]

Ian, we did a similar cruise last year. When we got to Norway the captain said he didn't want us to miss the lights so would make a ship wide announcement when they were visible regardless of time. The call duly came, at 2.30am. Everyone on deck to see them. The deck was frozen & crew putting salt down so you will need a hat & warm clothes. Regarding photography here is one taken on a cheap android phone.

This was a 1/2 second exposure which was the longest my phone could do in manual mode. If you want better pictures you will need a tripod and a camera or phone capable of long exposures between 1 & 10 seconds.The best display we had was whilst leaving Tromso.

Hope this helps, Paul

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It's proper cold at those latitudes by December so take some good gear for ever going outside

I couldn't even go out on deck as a skinny 20 year old in Canada, everything just stopped working and I was cold to the bone in minutes. We got out in early Dec just before the St Lawrence froze up solid

Never saw the Northern lights at sea. Missed it so far in the UK too, even that night they could see it in Aberdeen and Newcastle I never saw a sausage out late with pooch

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Are you sure it wasn't returning from the pub Noel.

Bill D.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Ian

You might find this review of a ‘Northern Lights’ cruise of interest:

Webpage : **LINK**

and YouTube video: **LINK**

I have visited Norway on a few cruises but in the summer / autumn, so the weather was not that cold. The most northern one was round Nordkapp to the port of Honningsvag.

Stuart

[CHAS LIPSCOMBEParticipant @chaslipscombe64795]

Oldiron, I think the picture of the Roman galley is a bit romanticised. As far as I know the rowers were all slaves, chained in place and never left their positions until death. They ate, slept and defaecated in situ – bad luck if you were on the bottom row of a 3-row trireme.

Chas

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

No Bill ! If my memory serves me right it must have been summer as it was about 9:30PM, at Thornham, on the coast, having observed the sight I entered the pub and told those there to go outside and see. There was no doubt that it was one of those rare occasions when the northern lights come this far south. THEN I had a beer ! Noel.

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