Multimeter recommendations

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

As far as l am concerned , l am with RA all the way on this one . Regulations , and their literal interpretation , whether simply in the form of a code of practice or statutory , exist not to keep someone in a job but because at some point in the past someone has been hurt or even killed , and you ignore them at your , or worse someonelses peril .

In the event of an untoward occurrence , and you're in front of the man with the silly wig on , or the men from the ministry ( HSE ) and the inevitable question is asked " Do you have a code of practice , and have you followed it ?" you'd better have a bullet proof excuse if your answer is likely to be "no" . BEEN THERE , DONE IT , and it's not a comfortable place to be even when your answer has been " yes".

So well done RA for giving the benefit of your experience and advice so freely and without personal preduice , which with luck will help someone being injured or killed .

On a more specific aspect , is the CE mark shown in the supplied pictures and actual CE mark ( indicating compliance to known standards) or , as been noted in the past simply Chinese Export which just happens to be in the same type face as the genuine CE mark ?

Trevor .

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Well both CPC and Farnell list Tenma for that model number but that supplied to you and pictured on their websites is branded "STANDARD" The claim on the website is they meet IEC1010 (no dash number or date specified IEC1010-2 is for centrifuges) not EN61010. The IEC 1010 standard is obsolete and is replaced by EN 61010-1. (the latest version of 61010-1 also requires compliance with parts of EN61010-2-30, another document to buy).

You could ask CPC for evidence of the meters compliance, but they are just taking the suppliers word for it. Am almost tempted to buy one and challenge it. CPC sell "retail" so I could go to Trading Standards.

The slightly more expensive Duartool DO3144 loks better at lest it quotes 61010-1 band the manual specifies 600V 10kA breaking fuses, but the tepmerature / HFE input is not protected to 600V (manual page 4 f says 250V. https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2648510.pdf ) So that is also a clear failure.

There is a reason why compliant meters cost more. Caveat Emptor and if it looks too good to be true it probably isn't.

B.T.W. checking compliance of aircraft parts is part of my day job. A few years ago I found that ta safety compliance test of a electrical component had not been done correctly in two respects. The test intention is actually similar to part of EN 61010-1. This was an exsiting part and thouands are fitted to airliners.The part maker agreed that the test had been done incorrectly and neither the approved independant test house, the part maker or the aircraft mnufacturer had noticed! They re-ran the test, but did it wrong again! The got it right on the second re-test. Fortunatly the part passed or there would have been a huge re-call required. The tests cost in the 5 digit range.

Robert G8RPI.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Robert, thank you for your assessment, however I won't pursue CPC for any evidence as they probably won't know anything more than what is in the instructions, but the instructions are well written although fairly basic, but they do point out the hazards and to use it with caution and it is unlikely that it will be used in a situation that will have any danger and as I've said, I really only got this one for the battery test facility and it was in effect half price as it covered postage cost for the rest of the same order. At least this discussion may help others to choose carefully what they buy for their own use.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 13/09/2021 07:50:47

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Hi Nick,

That is fine. As long as it is just your personal use and you have assesd the risk and accepted it. This is like so many other things in ME which would never be allowed in a commercial or industrial setting.
I'm not trying to be the "safety police" . I just want people to have correct information so they can make that informed judgement. There ais a lot of poor information oout there. Regulations and guidance also evolve and what was "OK" last year may not be today.
For anyone using meters in any kind of commecial or public environment they really should be fully compliant. As Trevor says you might just hve to answer for your actions. Also if you have insurance they may quibble about it and not pay you or try to claim back off you for a 3rd party payment..

Trevor,
Thank you for your comments. On CE marks, the one on SOD's "830" meter is incorrect but it might be an old meter. Those shown by others appear to be the correct mark but unless the item is fully compliant they are not valid.
Interestingly. if you want to sell into China they do not accept CE UL etc. You have to submit samples and full technical details to a test house in China and pay for testing. Somone cynical might say that clones would be on the market before you approval was granted…..

Robert G8RPI.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

My advice if you are buying a budget meter is chuck the leads away and buy a decent set. Personally I would be more worried about flimsy probes that anything that was going to happen to the meter itself.

regards Martin

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

Whoa whoa fellas!

£10 for a fuse? Divide £10 by the number of years until you next blow a fuse – in my case I replaced the fuse in my Fluke 77 with the correct Fluke fuse about 10 years' ago – so it has cost me just £1 per year so far, and I haven't blown it again yet, so that price drops every day.

Why are you trying to use a cheap substandard part? There is a saying from my aviation career; "if you think safety is expensive; try having an accident".

For all we know, genuine Fluke fuses might be filled with nitrogen or other inert gas, or expensive compounds, to ensure its reliability and safety.

For what it's worth:

1. For a safety critical part; use the correct, genuine, manufacture's specified part.

2. Divide the cost of anything by the number of years it will last or that you will use it for.

3. Even though you might not use the meter in a critical situation, your son, or a friend who borrows your meter one day, might do. (Or you might forget that you put a cheap fuse in and endanger yourself).

4. Fluke meters are a quality item. Why cheapen it and compromise its safety performance by trying to save a few quid?

5. Do you use the cheapest available brake pads on your car, or the correct OEM ones? (actually, don't answer that…..!)

 

.

 

Edited By John Doe 2 on 23/09/2021 11:13:27

Edited By John Doe 2 on 23/09/2021 11:15:34

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I found a 10A 600V 'multimeter fuse' online for £2,50.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Despite the ‘no longer available’ message … my local Aldi has these in stock at £9.99

**LINK**

https://www.aldi.co.uk/ferrex-digital-multimeter/p/801179390763400

Has any forum member tried one ?

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Rather sadly, the Aldi one is probably going to be easier to use and far more accurate than this…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

… and it has a ruggedised case !

The Avo does have more ‘class’ though.

MichaelG.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

The information on that Aldi one is fascinating. It's "corded" (so you plug it in?) but comes with battery, yet is "not activ (sic) battery compatible". I guess if you knew that "Activ" batteries are the ones that go in Ferrex power tools it would make more sense. Just as well it's going out of stock perhaps…

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Ah, but you don't get an Earth terminal on the Aldi meter. Some thing very special about an Avo, that special smell when you open the box and then see the quality workman ship or should I say Ladies work. Should any one be really interested in AVOs and all the they made and their repairs. I suggest you go to "Vintage Radio" where there are some experts and collectors. Not me i have only got eight. John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 24/09/2021 10:11:25:

The information on that Aldi one is fascinating. It's "corded" (so you plug it in?) but comes with battery, yet is "not activ (sic) battery compatible". I guess if you knew that "Activ" batteries are the ones that go in Ferrex power tools it would make more sense. Just as well it's going out of stock perhaps…

.

Strictly speaking that would be … ACTIV (sic) …

Interesting that they quote a Cable Length of 95.5cm

… do they mean the test leads; and if so, is that ‘each’ or ‘total’ ?

The mystery deepens

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ I repeat “Has any forum member tried one ?”

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/09/2021 13:10:17

[Oven ManParticipant @ovenman]

Posted by john fletcher 1 on 24/09/2021 11:54:46:

Ah, but you don't get an Earth terminal on the Aldi meter. Some thing very special about an Avo, that special smell when you open the box and then see the quality workman ship or should I say Ladies work. Should any one be really interested in AVOs and all the they made and their repairs. I suggest you go to "Vintage Radio" where there are some experts and collectors. Not me i have only got eight. John

I agree with you John, there is something special about an AVO. It's just a nice thing to pick up and hold. Mine has been through the wars a bit but it works well enough for me.

Where it really scores is looking at things like motor start and running currents. The initial start current can be quite high but of such short duration that it gets missed by a digital meter. The large scale of the AVO shows it up nicely, not neccessarily in absolute values but you can pick up trends quite easily.

With regard to fuses in digital meters my ancient Fluke 77 has a 15amp fuse specified for the 10amp range. These really do seem to be like hens teeth so I am quite happy with a 10 amp. I do worry however that a significant number of these fuses for sale on the internet are fake, It's just so easy to make something that looks exactly the same on the outside.

Peter

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

I had one of these at one time but although a later model it never felt like a proper Mk.7/8 AVO

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by john fletcher 1 on 24/09/2021 11:54:46:

Ah, but you don't get an Earth terminal on the Aldi meter. Some thing very special about an Avo, that special smell when you open the box and then see the quality workman ship or should I say Ladies work. Should any one be really interested in AVOs and all the they made and their repairs. I suggest you go to "Vintage Radio" where there are some experts and collectors. Not me i have only got eight. John

My dad has two… and a lovely 70s Eagle (I have it's twin).

Sadly, if I need a multimeter I still reach for the Machine Mart digital…

Under a pile of wood I found a dusty but otherwise immaculate RS Safebloc today. The one with a fuse and two blades to fully isolate Live and Neutral when open, allowing you to safely and temporarily connect a mains lead via three sprung clips, which then goes live when it is closed. Very useful bit of vintage kit!

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There ought to be a Megger somewhere as well, unless it went with the shop in the 1980s.

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

As crude digital oscilloscopes are now cheap as chips it isn't surprising that this kind of instrument is emerging:

**LINK**

**LINK**

…provided they have had the sense to integrate the functions properly.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/09/2021 16:49:59:

Despite the ‘no longer available’ message … my local Aldi has these in stock at £9.99

**LINK**

https://www.aldi.co.uk/ferrex-digital-multimeter/p/801179390763400

Has any forum member tried one ?

MichaelG.

Panel says "CAT III" and "300V max" which is impossible. Probably not safe for use on mains and counterfiet CE marking.

Robert G8RPI.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Robert

… I decided agin it anyway; when I looked at a video showing how to install the battery !

MichaelG.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

Have 3 AVO all different 1 Avo Multimeter over 60 years old and still works fine 2 Avo model 8 possibly bought early seventies 3 X British Rail did not work when givin , But i repaired same somtime later wormks perfect ,Also a Sangamo Voltage and Ammeter 1970 vintage stilwork fine . Have had 3 different model digital meters all now gone us . Definatley prefer a scale model instrument, my thoughts you only get what you pay for the 3 digital only cost a fraction of what i paid for my No8.

Regards to all

Bee.M

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

Avo meters might be loved by the purists, but they are a bit inconvenient to use, when you are 30ft up in a cherry picker basket, trying to sort out a microwave link.

[Brian MorehenParticipant @brianmorehen85290]

O if Cherry pickers had existed in the mid 1960.What 30 ft up on ladder trying to find where one of 3phase supply on a overhead supply had gone? Trying to find a possible Line Tap problem. only had a AVO.

Regards

Bee.M

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

RS safe blocks, very useful when carrying out repairs, but H&S thought they could be possibly dangerous so out they went in Colleges and Schools. I got mine at a Mobile Rally several years ago. Another useful bit of repair kit is a 13 amp socket outlet box with a length of flex and a 13 amp plug attached. ( A modified very short extension lead in effect) The socket outlet NEUTRAL is brought out externally, via very well insulated loop so that you can place a clamp type meter around the neutral, and measure the current without any disconnecting. (I have a UNI – T UT 210E , these clamp on type will also measure DC loads) The load is via 13 amp plug as normal, which is inserted into the adapted box. John.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The safe blocks original name was keynector, I believe they were the manufacturers ? Noel.

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