moving a 1250kg bridgeport clone

[PeroParticipant @pero]

The problem with these things is that they all look superficially the same but actually range from quite polite to rather extreme. I also have a clone – rather heavier than yours and had a little to do with moving it into my workshop. Most of the work however was done by a professional machine mover. It arrived on a truck with a long crane arm which got it partly down the drive. The remainder, downhill, was done manually Caution don't stand in front of a machine on a downhill slope!

As noted above the head was inverted for shipping. This actually had a side benefit as it would not have fitted through the doorway at full height. It also had about 10 mm clearance either side through the doorway. When I say doorway it is actually an opening in the wall about 1200 mm wide. First lesson – make sure any doorways are high enough and wide enough to get the machine through. Remembering to allow for pallet trucks etc. In my case I was just lucky it fitted – it didn't look that big in the showroom!

Next issue, if you go for the inverted head watch the weight. Once the head gets part way around it puts a lot of weight on the gears and some support is recommended. Getting it back upright is more of a problem. In my case I used a prop and hydraulic jack to take most of the load off the gears. Otherwise it just wouldn't have moved but probably would have stripped the gears.

Lifting and shifting. Even if you remove the head, vertical mills still have a relatively small footprint and a high center of gravity. If you are lifting just enough to place something under the base, lift a little at a time and use block of variable thickness as required to avoid tilting it too much.

Best of luck with the shift, plan out each action and stay safe.

Cheers Pero

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thank you!

We're actually going to dismantle pretty much all of it. Remove head, remove ram and turret, remove table, remove saddle, remove knee. Leaving what is hopefully about a 500kg column.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Carl

Getting the balance right between weight reduction and the amount of work to do far from home is tricky.

I'd leave the knee on.

Although taking it off is useful reduction in weight its total PIA to get back on due to the height it has to be lifted to and the weight distribution being such that it refuses to hang straight making refitting very difficult. You seriously don't want to bend or break the gib strip. If the gib is cast iron it's dreadfully easy to break. Getting it off is bad enough but putting it on again adds whole new levels of frustration for the first timer.

For shifting the table bolt a couple of brackets onto the Tee slots so it can be strap hung from the engine hoist /. crane or whatever. Position the hoist to one side to catch the table as it slides off. Bit of judicious pumping and co-ordination with a support man makes it go on and off easily. Thats what I did when I pulled my table for clean up once safely in the workshop.

I left the saddle and table on the Bridgeport for the move figuring that fitting the H frames under the table for stability outweighed the benefits of weight reduction. But I knew I had that off camber corner to cope with once home. On the Bridgeport taking the saddle off means you have to disturb the lubrication pipes from the one shot lubricator system.

As ever there is no one true way for doing these jobs unless you are a professional able to move the brute in one piece. The important thing is knowing the options so you can weigh up the pros and cons of different approaches and be properly equipped when you go to collect it.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 19/09/2023 16:40:17

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thanks Clive. I will take that advice on board and leave the knee attached! It may prove too much for the tail lift but we will have a couple of engine hoists.

I have an engine load-leveller and I am ready with some 1/2"-13 bolts to bolt its fixings (L-shaped plates) to the tee nuts, for the table.

like this:

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Good luck Carl. I'm confident you'll get it done without injury to man or machine.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thank you !

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I disassembled my clone including the knee for the weight reduction. I'll admit it's a bit harder to get it back on unless you know the trick. Lay the column and base over on it's back with the knee ways facing up. Then it's pretty easy to slide the knee onto the ways. In hind sight I'm glad I removed it since it made removing all the slathered on anti rust concoction easy. With any used mill, then I'd do the same just for cleaning. They work SO much better clean, properly lubricated and correctly adjusted. In fact that detail cleaning will generally allow you to adjust the gibs a bit tighter while still remaining smooth to operate. With all the old black congealed lubrication that will be full of wear particles, chips, dirt etc it makes a large difference. I'd also solvent wash the feed screws, nuts and all way surfaces, then re-lubricate as everything goes back together. When you remove the top turret cap reach in through the side door and upwards to hold the spider as the final bolts are removed. Reassembly is the opposite.

Getting the 4 head bolts indexed and spaced so the head can go all the way on is a bit frustrating. Set the head without the motor on it with the spindle end on a piece of plywood on the table, have someone else balance it. Then use the knee, X,Y axes to align the head to the knuckle face. Adjust the bolt spacing as you move the head in with the Y axis. It takes a bit of back and forth playing with the bolt positioning and Y axis screw until the head is fully on. Don't over torque the nuts. Beyond about 40-50 ft lbs you'll start to deform the spindle bore. It's possible to over tighten and then lock the spindle in that precision bore.

And I'd very much agree with Clive's point about being careful with that knee gib. You VERY much do not want to break it. It's extremely easy to have the small end stuck and wedged in place to where it's more than difficult to remove. If it were to break? DO NOT move the knee trying to get what's left out, you'll make it 10 times harder to remove.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

I have a question about laying the column down actually – how do you do it? I am hoping to lay it down at some point.

I would like to strap hoist to turret area once turret and ram are removed, but how do I do that? I understand there will just be the spider casting inside, and that this can be loose, and fragile.

I have some 19" car tires that might fit around the top of the column to add extra protection. I can take some long pieces of timber to give leverage once it starts to fall.

It's a square column and looks like straps would slip on the outside.

Maybe I just leave the turret on – then there's something for straps to grip to. I was originally planning to remove ram and turret as one piece.

Edited By Carl Farrington on 20/09/2023 02:28:11

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

With mine I just used about a 4' length of wooden 2" x 4" in the top of the casting where the turret cap bolts on to give some leverage to then pull the casting backwards. I don't know about on real BP's, but my clones casting was ok and fairly stable on it's back. If yours isn't, then maybe bolt another 2" x 4" to the bottom of the base casting at the back and across the width of that base casting. With an older and used machine, internal rusting on parts can be an issue. Places like that ram and turret cap dovetail for example. I've read a few posts mentioning the ram was seized from rust. So I'd still pull it apart and clean if required, then re-lube to prevent any further rust. Just don't force anything taking it apart. All you'll do is damage parts.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

So there's no problems with it being too heavy to lower to the ground by hand? provided you've got the leverage of the timber?

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

If you have a second person there shouldn't be. But if your not sure, use your engine hoist to lower it once it's past 45 degrees towards the floor. I took mine apart and reassembled it without ever once operating a BP type mill. It's just takes some common sense and a bit of thought.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thanks Pete. Good to see I'm not the only insomniac too

I have made the head-receiver jig. I didn't think I'd find any useful bits of metal on hand so was going to have to do some last minute travelling, but I found the remains of an old TV wall-mount bracket, and an old/worn out spindle shaft from the lawn mower.

 

I don't think it really needed welding, but I have anyway. That's a 24mm nut on the bottom.

The 'collar' must be impregnated with oil because it sweated buckets when I tried to weld it, but anyway I managed to get more than enough weld into the shaft to prevent that collar from slipping down when the head is on it.

 

I couldn't get the shaft in the centre of the plate because I only have a small crappy drill-press. The mill will be quite an upgrade!

 

I think I will just need to cut the end of the shaft down a bit though. How much space is there inside a ~18mm collet ?

Edited By Carl Farrington on 20/09/2023 21:33:09

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

My apology's for using North American terms and non metric dimensions in this.

Since I don't have a welder I have to work around that. There's been a few pictures, forum posts, Youtube videos showing even R8 shanks welded to steel plate as a holding fixture to re/re the head. Frankly that's way over kill for what the job requires. I have a full sized head with a 2 hp 3 ph motor on mine. Remove that motor and the head is just manageable to be lifted off the table and moved for at least a short distances by a single person. As I mentioned earlier, the spindle can be fully retracted within the head, set the spindle lock and then move the knee up to take the head weight. On mine the head will balance on the end of that spindle sitting and supported by the table. While it would be much easier with two people, I removed and replaced the head head by myself.

If I was at all concerned though, I'd just use a couple layers of 3/4" plywood or a wide piece of construction grade lumber such as 2" x 6" on up to even a 2" x 12 and a length of 1/2" ready rod with a couple of nuts up through the spindle and a nut at the top to clamp the wood to the bottom of the spindle and keep the head vertical to remove / replace it. Even easier would be just using a tee nut in one of the table slots and a length of that ready rod matching the tee nuts thread pitch running up through the spindle with a nut on top to hold the head in place. I have a bad habit of vastly over building. And I've moved a whole lot of very heavy items over my career without any failures. But even with that, I think the wood or tee nut with that ready rod is more than good enough. But one thing to be extremely careful of when transporting the head while it's separated from the rest of the mill, Make 100% sure the head can't roll around in the vehicle. There's a few rather delicate controls on them that are very easy to break off. Better to not ask how I learned that lesson.

Disassembling, moving and then reassembling is just the start though Carl. I'd recommend after you've got that done and maybe just before it's back to being operational. Start a new separate thread on the operation of this type of mill. There's some little tips and tricks that these mills have that aren't quite as intuitive or easy to pick up on your own as it would seem. And a few that might save you some fairly complex and expensive repairs. Something that's rarely mentioned on forums like this and in case at some point in the future your milling requirements get a little outside the usual. Then Bridgeport mills and for at least my clone have some important dimensions and little machined areas on the head that work with a large number of accessory heads that were designed specifically for these mills. That's one of the main reasons I chose mine even though it was a bit more than I wanted to spend. For myself, that decision has worked out well. There also not the most rigid of mill designs, at a hobby level that probably doesn't matter too much. What they are though is very versatile and much, much easier to buy tooling for, set up and work with than any of the smaller round or dovetail column bench top mills that are available today.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thanks Pete. What if I want to leave the motor attached? I know it will affect the balance but as long as it's held on that fixture, and I have sling on crane ready to lift it off, it should be ok I hope.

It's just I am not totally clear on the motor removal procedure and time will be of the essence this Saturday.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Fwiw and something I learned in my career is that taking the few extra minutes to do things in a fail safe way always pays off. Cutting corners just to save a bit of time almost always has a way of coming back on you.

I can't say about the real BP's and probably there's differences between a UK and American model anyway. First leave the switch wired to the motor and just remove the switch mounting screws, and on mine, all I have to do is loosen and pivot the motor as you would when changing belt positions, drop the belt off the bottom pulley grooves on both the motor and spindle drive, remove both motor mounting bolts and the motor lifts out. If yours is similar? That all takes less than 10 minutes and you'll find the head a lot lighter to move, plus that head transports much more stably. Easier to reassemble as well. I first put the head on and get its 4 mounting bolts tightened up, then put the motor, switch and drive belt back on. Now if yours is the variable speed model, I really can't say about those. My personal opinion is the belt change model and a VFD combination gives you the best options with far less future maintenance issues with the known faulty plastic bushings used on those variable speed heads that end up causing quite a bit of noise once they start to wear. When I bought mine, I tried getting the variable speed version, but they were out of stock. In hindsight and like I said, what I did get worked out I think much better.

What you will find a bit frustrating when your reassembling it is getting those 4 head mounting bolts all the way through the holes in the head until that head can freely seat against the face of the tilt / nod knuckle end. It's sort of like using a drill press to both rotate the table and pivot it's support arm around until a drill location lines up with where you want the hole on a part held in a vise. The main difference though is you have 4 to do all at once and those head mounting bolts are a bit loose in the slots in the face of the knuckle, so they don't stay where you position them by hand. As I said, I set the spindle end on the table, balance or support the head in place, then use the knee for the correct elevation and X,Y moves on the table to move the head into alignment to start those bolts. Once the head is positioned correctly, then use the Y axis to move the head in as you fiddle with positioning each bolt shank. All this is much easier to do the second time than the first though. While the head could be lifted onto those bolts, it would be heavy and awkward to do, it's a whole lot easier to just use the mills own X,Y, Z motions to do the heavy work for you. I'd also still chose to do it that way even with an engine hoist since you can make easier and much finer adjustments using the knee and table.

And here's your first operational tip, once that head is back on and your no longer going to be using the knee for awhile. ALWAYS take the knee crank and just reverse it on the pin that sticks out of the knees vertical adjustment shaft so the handle end is then pointed towards the machine. That's a non optional habit to develop right away. Leave that crank and handle in its normal operating position and you will walk into it at some point, very painful when you do. You will forget to do so at some point and so have I, but I did warn you.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thank you for all the tips, they are invaluable

Regarding the motor, yes it is a variable speed head, hence not wanting to lose ~20 – 60 minutes faffing about with it at somebody else's premises.

Edited By Carl Farrington on 21/09/2023 09:14:52

[StueeeeParticipant @stueeee]

Certainly you should be able to remove the head without removing the motor and still have the head stay upright; here the slings are through the belt access slots. I needed to move my J1 head Bridgport accross the workshop and fit a riser block recently. needed to get the weight down to 1 tonne as that's all the workshop crane setup is good for.

This is it built back up, quite a bit more weight there with all the bits and bobs.

The other  thing you can do to reduce weight is remove the ram assembly complete – removing the four bolts which allow you to slew the head/ram assembly will allow you to lift it off with an engine crane or similar. You could still lift the rest of the machine if you put an angle iron  bar accross the base unit and pick up using two opposite 1/2" x 13 bolts through onto the cruciform that the head normally bolts to.

Edited By Stueeee on 21/09/2023 15:42:41

[vic francisParticipant @vicfrancis]

Wow great workshop stue!

Carl, Good words of advice here, but as it's been said, don't rush the job, slowly and surely…. I agree , loose all the weight you can, I used to photo it all, mark the bolts with tippex ect , rather than leaving to memory! Yes not sure what the Luton vans tail lift is rated, it's what we used years back, some are only 500 kg, the old mother's pride wagon , was 1000kg! Since the old mill we moved was heavy, we used a pallet truck and the mill was bolted to it, just skimming the ground…and wedged so no lateral movement. Since the Tail lift was low rated we used the engine hoist in conjunction with the tail lift IE pulling the tail lift up then the , power the lift catching up.!bit by bit.. Then when level it's the pull in , which is where a which would be a big help…

I would check you can lift your mill carcase high enough, due to the slings sag ect, if you go the lift high route, if you have long ramps or wood beams ( preferably bolted and spaced) could you not winch (mounted in the dolly,) it up the incline on to the hire dolly? Sheet metal underneath would loose the friction on the beams…whatever you do, good luck!

Vic

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Ok then with that variable speed head I don't have any experience with them. I do know your not supposed to make any speed changes with the motor running so be careful of that Carl. Obviously there has to be a way to replace the belts on the variable speed models. I just don't know how time consuming or complex that might be.

[grimmeParticipant @grimme]

How did you get on with the move? This caught my eye because I bought a Warco as a bridge wouldn't fit down the side of the house but couldn't get on with it, especially after it was pointed out to me that a bridge would fit if head and turret were removed and table so that's what I did with a crane lift from Durley to work then jcb loader to my house, pallet truck and engine hoist.

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

my B/P on a frame/chassis so that I can move it around carefully with a pallet truck……..

allong with all my other machines……

my wood saw weighs 2 tons and thats stays wherever it's put…..lol…

no idea now on how to post a photo anymore…….it's been a while….

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Pete

Belt change on the varispeed Bridgeport and clone heads is basically motor off, top cover off, change belt and re-assemble. Not that difficult if you have the book to follow and the head at a convenient height to work on.

Which is where the R8, or collet grippable size, post on the table and a support frame for the motor end make life so much easier. Even with the table right down I found the Bridgeport motor was high enough that standing on a hop-up, or equivalent portable step, made the lift'n tilt a bit movements needed to remove it much easier. When it comes to hefty stuff I'm a great fan of working at "cuddleble" heights if you see what I mean.

On a Bridgeport you need to know the method for compressing the spring on the motor end of the varispeed so the pulleys can be separated leaving room to shift the motor. The right way is easy and safe. The unorthodox alternatives not so much. On the Bridgeport it's important to verify that the screws holding the key in place are properly tight. They can work loose and fall out leading to seriously expensive sounding noises.

Clive

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

It went well.

Thank god I had a very handy mate with me.

It's in my garage in pieces now and the hire van has been returned. I'll post more details tomorrow, it's been a long day!

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Thanks for the details about how the belt / motor comes off on the variable speed machines Clive. Overall it sounds not much more involved that what my belt change model is. And that "cuddeble" mode is how I get my head on or off the table. Heavy but manageable if you wrap your arms around it and get the weight in close to your own center of gravity.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Little vid showing the machine in pieces and all the tooling and stuff that I picked up with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EACbTmvLdnQ

Edited By Carl Farrington on 24/09/2023 17:12:55

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