moving a 1250kg bridgeport clone

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Hi all

I have bought one of Taiwan's finest – a King Rich KR-V2000.

I need to move it. I have read lots, but have a couple of concerns.

Firstly, my engine crane is only a 1T Clarke. But I could remove as much as possible from the mill first (head etc).

Plan is to hire a twin-axle braked plant trailer. I suppose I would try to remove the rear door/ramp and wheel the trailer under, then lower into trailer. If there is enough height. The documentation doesn't show height to the top of the ram which has the lifting eyelet on it.

I also have access to a pallet truck and have considered tying to it and winching up ramp of trailer. Could be sketchy though. I understand the single turning-wheel in the centre introduces instability and is a worry.

I also have skates, and a machine-lifting toe-jack. I am probably going to buy a roller pry bar to lift it.

The skates worry me a bit because it is two rear skates (which can be tied to each other with a bar, and then the front skate is a large one but it just has a central pivoting pad, which means the machine isn't supported on all four corners. The skate set is basically like this:

Steve Landylift is not available (he moved my lathe for me and was very good), and also a larger van (one with a tail lift that can cope with more than 500kg) will not get close to my workshop / garage, but the plant trailer will.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Machinery skates with a Bridgeport on top loading up a ramp onto a trailer. I hate to be the party pooper but you are right to think this is a mite iffy.

Know any farmers? With a nice chunky front loader on a big green tractor? One each end of your journey maybe?Much more re-assuring.

Otherwise there are specialist machinery movers – if you would like to indicate approx locations for start and finish of this adventure perhaps the combined knowledge of the forum can identify suitable alternatives to Mr LandyLift.

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Posted by Simon Williams 3 on 16/09/2023 14:05:36:

Machinery skates with a Bridgeport on top loading up a ramp onto a trailer. I hate to be the party pooper but you are right to think this is a mite iffy.

Know any farmers? With a nice chunky front loader on a big green tractor? One each end of your journey maybe?Much more re-assuring.

Otherwise there are specialist machinery movers – if you would like to indicate approx locations for start and finish of this adventure perhaps the combined knowledge of the forum can identify suitable alternatives to Mr LandyLift.

Yes I don't see it being pulled up a trailer ramp. Also the trailer that I was looking at appears to have the 'suitable for walk-on loading' ramp option on it. hmm. That's definitely not going to work. So my only DIY option currently is the 'raise in air and wheel trailer underneath'. If I have to buy or hire a 2T hoist then so be it.

There are many farmers around here but I don't think they will get around to the garage/workshop due to narrow driveway.

The locations are north west. From north Wales, to home which is in Kelsall near Chester.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Any floor that skates will rol over, will be just as suitable for pipe rollers and much less risky. I wouldn't bother much with a roller pry bar either, a normal prybar will be plenty god enough and you don't even need a full sized one. Just take plenty of packing/cribbing.

Is the V2000 really that much heavier than a Bridgy?

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 16/09/2023 14:13:31:

Any floor that skates will rol over, will be just as suitable for pipe rollers and much less risky. I wouldn't bother much with a roller pry bar either, a normal prybar will be plenty god enough and you don't even need a full sized one. Just take plenty of packing/cribbing.

Is the V2000 really that much heavier than a Bridgy?

 

Thanks. That should save me some money on the prybar then. OK I'll get some bar ready.

 

Yes they're 1,250kg. BP is 900kg I think.

Edited By Carl Farrington on 16/09/2023 14:19:07

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Carl

Don't even think about a pallet truck.

As you surmise the close coupled pair of swivelling wheels at the handle end make things very unstable at the slightest provocation. I've seen a Bridgeport overturn off a pallet truck when a turn was attempted on less than perfect ground. Very impressive bang. The mill appeared to survive but i didn't give it a close inspection and it was on its way to auction anyway.

A pallet truck is possibly acceptable on a smooth, flat surface with wide sweeping turns but nowhere else.

When I moved mine I bolted sturdy timber H sections under the ends of the table and adjusted things so they just skimmed the ground. Inch or less clearance. So if things started to tilt the machine couldn't go very far and would sit at a stable, small, tilt whilst figuring out what to do next. Turned out to be a good idea when mine, not unexpectedly, tilted towards the lawn where the path made a right angle off camber turn. Having already laid a sheet of plywood "just in case" supporting things level whilst inching round the rest of the turn was simple pry bar exercise. The plywood suffered.

I shifted mine on a self made, super heavy duty dolly having a frame of 2 1/2" x 1" alloy bar with 4 heavy duty castors having 2 1/2" diameter by 2 1/2" wide wheels. Probably good for 3 tons or more. The small diameter wheels kept everything reassuringly low to the ground.

I took the head and ram off separately before moving which made a big difference. By far the easiest way to deal with the head is to arrange an R8 arbour on a stout foot that can be bolted to the table. Fit the arbor into the spindle then bolt the foot to the bed. After removing the bolts use the Y feed on the table to draw it off. Bring the table down to a sensible height and lift off. Reverse procedure to replace head when the mill is where it needs to go.

If you don't have a hefty dolly I've found that laying steel rod or stout, small diameter, pipe down rail fashion and sliding the machine along works much better than pipe rollers or skates. Especially if the surface isn't particularly good.

Clive

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Thanks Clive. I did see your picture and have read some of your prior posts on this sort of thing.

I could make a similar dolly, but what about getting it into the trailer?

This was the trailer I had in mind up to now:

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

The surfaces at both ends are smooth by the way..

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

I see what you mean about removing the head with the table – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFE_nXQCH6E

Edited By Carl Farrington on 16/09/2023 14:43:06

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Actually Clive it's not your dolly I have seen, it was KWIL's.

Do you by any chance have pictures of how you bolted the wood H frame to the table?

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

There is another mover I have a recommendation for moving machines. | Model Engineer (model-engineer.co.uk)

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/09/2023 16:24:01:

There is another mover I have a recommendation for moving machines. | Model Engineer (model-engineer.co.uk)

I have watched some of that chap's youtube videos before! I'll get in contact – thanks very much.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

First, I would be removing everything I could, to reduce the weight and height.

My next move would be to raise it sufficiently to get it on a large, sturdy, fully-boarded pallet. Secured properly, the pallet truck should be able to move it to the trailer – no real problem as the pallet only needs to be raised by a few mm.

Loading /unloading on/from the trailer depends.

I might expect the pallet could be pulled up some scaffold planks with suitable support beneath. The length and number would be longest and widest arrangement practical. If lift is adequate, the crane might be used, as you say, by moving the trailer under the machine, but safe slinging might be a problem?

I’ve shifted all manner of agri machinery, but never a bridgeport. Good luck, but be safe!

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Sorry Carl, no pictures. 20 odd years back was the pre-smartphone camera era!

The H went on sideways with the cross bar vertical. I made the cross bar about the same width as the table, maybe a touch wider. Two struts joined with some off-cut OSB left over from building the workshop. Sidebars were maybe double or a bit more table width with the upper one suitably packed out to avoid the screw. Another piece of timber across the top of the table and two long bolts or all-thread and nuts ran through suitable holes to clamp the frame in position.

I imagine I used 2 x 2 timber, more left-overs from workshop build, possibly 2 x 3 for top clamp and bottom foot. Very much designed by eye and what I had lying around. No need for super strength as the idea is to stop the tilt before it build up enough to put any real load on things.

Jacking the table down so the H frames touched the trailer floor also stopped it rocking in transit so the straps had an easier life.

The mate who helped me with the move reckoned I was over-engineering as usual but I was much happier knowing the machine wasn't going walkabout.

Clive

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I've moved an A&S Bridgeport a couple of times. Placed on a pallet, used a pallet jack and a winch to pull it onto a twin axle trailer. Not fun but doable back when my back wasn't completely fubar.

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

How high off the ground is the lifting point? Most engine cranes do not have the height to lift a mill onto a trailer. I have a two tonne crane and it took a bit of mucking about to get the slinging and lift chain on the crane short enough to allow us to lift a Viceroy lathe onto a trailer (pushing the trailer under the crane once the lathe was lifted). Remember to hitch the trailer up before loading it.

Be careful as well because stripping bits of the mill to reduce the weight will change the centre of gravity and you may end up with the lifting point not being at the correct point for the lift being made.

Martin

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Posted by Fulmen on 16/09/2023 17:23:04:

I've moved an A&S Bridgeport a couple of times. Placed on a pallet, used a pallet jack and a winch to pull it onto a twin axle trailer. Not fun but doable back when my back wasn't completely fubar.

In terms of that method, I'd expect the pallet jack to go up the trailer ramp backwards best – big wheel first, but then there's that possibility of the pallet and load sliding off the forks. Which way round did you do it?

Also I do have the issue of the ramp being 'for walk-on loading', rather than 'drive machinery on'. It's a builders trailer. I can pick other trailers but this one looks sturdy and not too wide for my spiral driveway, but it has that crappy ramp. I'm wondering how I can fashion a ramp to go over that one. I suppose long planks with varying thickness bits of wood underneath to support and raise.

I have contacted Ian anyway as per the recommendation here so I have my fingers cross for that

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Posted by Martin Cargill on 16/09/2023 17:24:28:

How high off the ground is the lifting point? Most engine cranes do not have the height to lift a mill onto a trailer. I have a two tonne crane and it took a bit of mucking about to get the slinging and lift chain on the crane short enough to allow us to lift a Viceroy lathe onto a trailer (pushing the trailer under the crane once the lathe was lifted). Remember to hitch the trailer up before loading it.

Be careful as well because stripping bits of the mill to reduce the weight will change the centre of gravity and you may end up with the lifting point not being at the correct point for the lift being made.

Martin

That is the one dimension that isn't in the KRV2000 PDF instruction manual. They show dimensions from bottom to top (including motor), which was 81" from memory. but doesn't show height of eyelet. I will ask the seller if they can measure for me.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Posted by Carl Farrington on 16/09/2023 17:36:23:

Which way round did you do it?

I really can't remember. But if you reverse the jack while pulling on the machine you should be safe.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

If your going to move it as one single piece, then first lower the knee, slack the 4 head bolts off and rotate the head 180 degrees. On most or maybe all BP type mills, those tilt and nod gears are a bit fragile, take as much of the weight with your off hand to support the head as it's rotated around to lessen the load on that gearing. Place a wide wooden board or piece of plywood between the table top and the end of the motor that's now facing down. Raise the knee to just take some of the motor and head weight. Then set the knee locks. That lowers the center of gravity as much as possible and its how afaik all the new one's are shipped from whatever manufacturer is building them. Mine was shipped exactly like that.

Once anything is picked up with a pallet jack, the pallet can't slide off the forks. The jack starts out lowered to the bottom of it's lift range, the forks and front wheels get shoved all the way through the opening in the pallet and then the whole thing is lifted. The weight and the front wheels prevent the pallet from ever sliding off the forks.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Won't argue with that, never seen a heavy load slip on a pallet unless something was seriously wonky. With these weights and materials friction is pretty reliable. But there's also Murphys law. I like to add a couple of sensible wedges, straps or screws just for piece of mind.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Yes your right Fulmen, BP type mills for the obvious reasons are a bit unstable due to the weight up high. Even with the head and motor rotated, I'd still use lag screws or bolts through the 4 holes in the base and the pallet to adequately fasten the machine to the pallet. Even with that I'd still move it slow and careful. I spent my career moving heavy objects from time to time with some up to 50 tons. Failed moves resulting in damage I saw from others were in general caused by trying to go too fast or not thinking the job through well enough. And the less experience you have the more time and thought is required. No one remembers later how fast you got it done, but you will remember the damage or even worse, any injuries.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Moving a J&S Bridgport is staight forward if you use the handbook information but not knowing the clone information this may not help but here is the correct way to move it.

wind down the table as low as it will go wind it back and center left and right. Next rotate the head till it is upside down so all weight is down as low as possible and lock all clamps and tighten bolts. There is a threaded hole in the top of the top of the slide which supports the head 3/4 UNC which an eye bolt screws into for lifting the whole machine. Hire a gantry from a hire station and simply lift the whole machine bolt substantial wooden frame to the bottom of the casting for stability through the bolt down holes lower on to the trailer and strap down with substatial straps. Dismantle the gantry and take it with you to reverse the lift. Look at your mill for holes as there may be bar holes for lifting or other eye bolt hols etc.

David

[Carl FarringtonParticipant @carlfarrington53722]

Been and had a look today. It's bloody massive!!

We're going to dismantle it on Saturday and use engine hoist, load levellers, pallet trucks, and Luton tail lift to get it home.

[Author]

Posts