Motorcycle General Discussion

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Nick_G on 31/10/2015 13:55:41:

Posted by Michael Poole on 31/10/2015 11:24:30:

I think we all countersteer subconsciously, once you are aware that this is how steering works it can be exaggerated to make a bike steer more quickly.

Mike

.

I agree.

It's only when I became aware and started thinking about counter steering that I realised I was already doing it.

Nick

Applies to pushbikes too..

Now if you want to go left really fast, should you initially steer left in order to initiate the countersteer even faster?

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It is interesting to ride no hands on pushbike or motorbike and just push the handlebar with a fingertip, if you fall off trying this don't blame me but the effect can be clearly demonstrated.

Mike

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I recently rode a Centre Hub Steered bike down our lane, with no handle bars, (I might add not under power) it was just to prove to myself it could be done if the bike is setup correctly, and it worked a treat, I just have to get it finished now and test it under power….

Shaun

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

My Ridiculous

My sublime

Last Project bike during WIP

Next project currently being sought.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

John.. Now I have the B25ss engine I might buy an OIF chassis and cycle parts to build a complete bike, I have my eye on one that is for sale at the moment.

Although the DOHC 350 Twin Triumph Bandit & BSA Fury mentioned by John Olsen never made it to full production, they did build some running examples. In fact there is a BSA Fury being offered for sale at the moment in the West Midlands. Been in a private collection for forty years and is a runner, although not started for a number of years. It is believed to be a factory test bike. So if you fancy one John then why not make them an offer.

Roger Williams Norton Rotary brings back a few memories. A local bike shop used to buy ex police Norton Interpol Rotaries and civilianise them, sometimes using fuel tanks, side panels and seat units from Honda CB900's. I took one of them for a test ride once, what a revelation, especially as I rode a Triumph T140 Bonneville at the time.

Edited By Lathejack on 31/10/2015 23:25:22

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I was supposed to start as a graduate apprentice with BSA Triumph in September 1971. I was made redundant before I started! However when I went on the 3 day interview I found that they had solved the problem of new bikes leaking oil all over the showroom floor, they drained it out before shipping from the factory! The Bandit/Fury was only an updated 3TA, still a 2 bearing twin, granted very fast, but as the Honda twins of the time had a four bearing crank built like a brick outhouse (got to be polite on this forum!) it's not dificult to see why the Japanese wiped out our motorcycle industry, we gave it away. Pre war designs still being made in the 1960s. Yes they had gone unit construction, but basically the same, and still spending money tinkering with 2 designs which competed against each other. I reckon the BSA twins were actually better than the Triumphs, but I'll now go away and wash my mouth out.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Yngvar F on 31/10/2015 08:35:08:

It's just a hanger for band saw blades.

And a very nice hanger at that! I like the little air scoop on the front brake. Is that an aftermarket accessory or did they come standard like that some years?.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by duncan webster on 01/11/2015 01:32:59:

…Pre war designs still being made in the 1960s. Yes they had gone unit construction, but basically the same, and still spending money tinkering with 2 designs which competed against each other…..

The Germans, French and I think the Italians all had unit construction well before WW2 so even that was not much of a great leap forward in the early 1960s when Tri/BSA finally made the switch.

(And I always liked the BSA twins too. Shorter stroke made them a smoother bike than the other makes and the lack of external pushrod tubes etc made them more oil-tight. Except the 69 Thunderbolt I had that came standard with porous head casting!)

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

No, I don't really want one for myself, it is just intriguing to think that there might be one lying around somewhere. Of course they might have sent them on to Australia, or even back to England, although the latter seems unlikely.

They did miss a lot of opportunities in those last years, mostly by failing to put in the capital needed to update.They tended to pooh-pooh small bikes as being unprofitable compared to big ones, obviously not realising that you can sell a lot more small ones, and that if you can make a profit on small bikes you are well placed to make an even bigger profit on big ones. I have seen it claimed that Honda spent more developing the disc brake for the 750 four than BSA Triumph did developing their triples, although I don't know if that is true or not. But making a triple as multiple slices of vertically split crankcase does not seem very smart to me.

It is funny but on those 250 single engines, the crank seems to have been one thing they got pretty right. A one piece shaft with a plain big end bearing and a proper oil filter. Mind you, if I remember correctly that was the third design they had tried since the C15.

I must have a look through the albums, see if I can dig out the pictures of my Blazer.

I see there is one for sale in Australia, but that only has the small front brake:

http://www.bikepoint.com.au/dealer/OAG-AD-567829/1971-Triumph-Blazer-SS-T25-SS/?cr=0&psq=%28%28%28Make%3D%5BTriumph%5D%26Model%3D%5BBlazer%20SS%20T25%20SS%5D%29%26%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BBrand%20new%20bikes%20available%5D|SiloType%3D[Brand%20new%20bikes%20in%20stock]%29|SiloType%3D[Demo%20%26%20near%20new%20bikes]%29|SiloType%3D[Dealer%20used%20bikes]%29|SiloType%3D[Private%20used%20bikes]%29%29%26Service%3D[Bikesales]%29&pso=0&pss=Premium

John

Edited By John Olsen on 01/11/2015 05:35:54

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

The Bandit/Fury was a great deal more than an updated 3TA!! Sure it had a two bearing crank, it was a motorbike engine, and Turner designed (Turner, design??, almost an oxymoron) the engine that was developed into the Bandit/Fury and the layout of the 3T. That's about it. When it was originally announced, I ordered one, fortunately they never made it that far down the development path.

It's a whole bitter subject, the collapse of the British motorcycle industry.

cheers

Bill

[Mexican jonParticipant @mexicanjon]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Olsen on 01/11/2015 05:32:30: …I have seen it claimed that Honda spent more developing the disc brake for the 750 four than BSA Triumph did developing their triples, although I don't know if that is true or not. But making a triple as multiple slices of vertically split crankcase does not seem very smart to me….

Edited By John Olsen on 01/11/2015 05:35:54

Quite possible on the development budget. I believe Doug Hele/Bert Hopwood made the first prototype triple in a back room at the factory pretty much off their own bat and had one up and running in 1962. But the management types decided the market would not take to multi-cylinder bikes so put it on ice until the Honda 4 was well in view in 68.

Probably stuck with the vertical case joints so existing antique machine tools could be used in manufacture. I don't think it makes much difference to oil leakage. It seems to be more the quality of the joints and sealant than the orientation. Most oil leaks originated in the top end where the heat did its work.

Edited By Hopper on 01/11/2015 06:31:59

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by OuBallie on 30/10/2015 16:25:25:

Love that Norton, and the difference between old and new cars/bikes overloaded with computers.

Mention of RC motorcycles, I sold an RC model, of a Honda I think it was, in my shop in the '80s.

Everyone was sceptical, including myself, until that is I built one and tested it.

It worked a treat, with the 'steering' servo tilting the whole body of the bike aft of the front forks.

Here's my contribution, not mine I hasten to add, but it reminded me of my CB350 Twin I bought in 1972.

2015 and still in Ex-factory condition:

License disc says it all:

Even more so the odometer!:

Can confirm what Mike said about counter steering, it's the quickest way to put a 'bike down or get into a corner fast.

It went against the grain until tried, but too much and you are down.

Geoff – 4 wheels for me now, though I miss the feeling of freedom!

Memories. Passed my test on one of those in 77. CD 175 classed as an "old man's" bike, (which it was, 'cos it was my dad's), not to be confused with the CB 175, which with it's racier more up to date styling, had some pvc/velour tank strip. Jeez, the 70's and Jap styling errors…

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Ok, i'll bite. Here's my T140, owned from new, 1979. Very, very non std. billet 89mm Weslake crank, Carrillo rods, nickel plated highly modified frame, Fournales shocks, etc etc.

Edited By thaiguzzi on 01/11/2015 07:35:36

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

And here's my Guzzi. 89 Cali III, internally stock, very non std externally, owned about18-19 years.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Just finishing off an air cooled monoshock trials bike project. A Yamilia – Yamaha 135cc 2T bored to 147cc in an 89 Aprilia Climber rolling chassis. Pics to follow, just got the paintwork back yesterday.

Mike.

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Good to see a thread on motorcycles as far as what connection to model engineering look at the number of miniature motorcycle engines made.

Even though I haven't ridden a motorcycle for 30 years I'm still involved with them mainly for pure speed attempts I know that it's not every bodies cup of tea but the camaraderie and help from these potential record breakers is phenomenal.

Here is a link to a motorcycle, car and the very way out speed machines site.

**LINK**

There are lads and lasses that are interested in model engineering who compete at these speed meetings.

You never know the flash steam hydro might get two wheels .

Windy

 

Edited By Windy on 01/11/2015 11:49:23

[Yngvar FParticipant @yngvarf]

Posted by Hopper on 01/11/2015 05:23:2

And a very nice hanger at that! I like the little air scoop on the front brake. Is that an aftermarket accessory or did they come standard like that some years?.

It's the original 8 inch brake.

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 01/11/2015 07:28:38:

Ok, i'll bite. Here's my T140, owned from new, 1979. Very, very non std. billet 89mm Weslake crank, Carrillo rods, nickel plated highly modified frame, Fournales shocks, etc etc.

Edited By thaiguzzi on 01/11/2015 07:35:36

I want one

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

A very not standard 1954 MAC Velo. Ended it's life on a very un-level level crossing at a very antisocial speed. The comments centred around, "…you walked away from that!…" albeit with a shredded Belstaff and less skin.

Just think how well Velocettes would sell now if the company could have done a Morgan.

Ian

[Old ElanParticipant @oldelan]

Posted by Ian Abbott on 01/11/2015 14:54:05:

Just think how well Velocettes would sell now if the company could have done a Morgan.

A wooden framed motorcycle?

Wouldn't have thought that a good idea!

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Posted by Old Elan on 01/11/2015 15:10:27:A wooden framed motorcycle?

Wouldn't have thought that a good idea!

Funny you should say that. Given the right circumstances, wood can be stronger and lighter than metal. And I remember seeing just recently wooden framed bicycles and somewhere a wooden motorcycle. I can't remember where, but I think it was maybe a college or university. Laminated wood and probably epoxy resin and some glassfibre.

And slightly to one side, is the fella' who's been building Brough Superior SS100s to original spec. and now has a newly designed SS00, built "…as George would have wanted…" or words to that effect. I have the web page somewhere, I'll see if I can find it. Apparently at about £50,000, which 'aint too bad, considering what a modern superbike is worth.

Can't help a bit of name dropping here, but I was born just around the corner from the site of George Brough's works in Basford, and then we moved to just up the road from Pendine, George's pile at Redhill. As teenagers we'd hang out on the bus stop bench and watch him drifting his E Type in a controlled slide out of the drive onto the A60. Just down the road was Billy Wing's Velocette dealership, a wonderfully grimy and crowded ex corner shop, where purchases weren't necessary to ensure conversation.

Ian

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Old Elan on 01/11/2015 15:10:27:

A wooden framed motorcycle?

Wouldn't have thought that a good idea!

I think someone put a Triumph Twin engine in to a home made plywood frame around 1960. I also recollect that plywood was better quality then. Ex-aircraft industry?

JA

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Made of Wood

[Old ElanParticipant @oldelan]

'Given the right circumstances, wood can be stronger and lighter than metal. I remember seeing just recently wooden framed bicycles and somewhere a wooden motorcycle'.

Just being facetious! Plenty of wooden bikes about and a few motorcycles too.

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