Motorcycle General Discussion

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Murray, that would have made a superb article, might still do with a few more photos and a bit more detail!

Neil

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I give in the site keeps stoping me due to too many characters……..

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Involute Curve on 06/05/2016 17:11:20:

Michael, its hard enough when someone's here but its quite amusing watching people use the wheeler for the first time, its like a bike that does the opposite of what you think!! turn left it goes right ouch………

.

Yes, I know [just about] that much Shaun; having watched the guys at Avro [Woodford] using them.

Despite Neil's perfectly understandable interest in an MEW Article, I still think a 'MasterClass' would be more appropriate, and that Hopper would be a willing and able student. [just a guess, based on what I have seen from the two of you, on this forum].

… Not that it's any of my business.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Goodwood Festival of Speed, on TV

Carl Fogarty is due to ride 'Slippery Sam' up the hill.

MichaelG.

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Remember the tank I was making, below is the bike it was for, I finally got it finished, its been a while but making the parts is a tiny bit more time consuming then buying them and bolting them on………

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Involute Curve on 11/07/2016 20:56:51:

Remember the tank I was making, below is the bike it was for, I finally got it finished, its been a while but making the parts is a tiny bit more time consuming then buying them and bolting them on………

You have to send me few pictures as a footnote to your CNC article

How does it ride?

Neil

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I will do Neil, its going into a proper studio in the near future to get snapped by a pro for one of the bike mags, so I'm keeping the online imagery to low res stuff for now, but I have thousands of pics of it during the build and over the past few day's of testing.

A far as testing goes its gone very well, in fact apart from not diving under braking you wouldn't know it was centre hub steered, I've covered about 250 miles on it over the past week or so, with only minor adjustments to shock settings and a few other things like chain adjustment etc, my main concern was cooling but the diffuser I made inside the belly pan is working a treat, it creates a venturi effect pulling air through the rads..

Shaun

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Beautiful work, Shaun

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Did it need a roadworthiness inmspection? I bet it raised a few eyebrows!

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Lovely work. For the last 40 years I have wondered why boring old teles have survived when there is a better solution!!

Wonderful, best of luck!!

cheers

Bill

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/07/2016 23:34:52:

Did it need a roadworthiness inmspection? I bet it raised a few eyebrows!

Yep it has to pass and MSVA test which is more about noise and emissions than anything else, but it was funny at times all the inspectors, 4 off em where debating the steering whist it was on the brake machine, one said it felt funny so they all agreed before trying it, we had another bike with us so they tried that and said that felt funny as well, it was obvious what was wrong, they are both quite tall sports bikes, all the testers where short arses, during the testing of the front they hold the bike on the rear brake but because they are so short they have to lean the bike over making it pull to one side, in the end I rode it on the rollers feet up, then went round the car park doing figure of eights, just to show it can turn and go straight……… the noise emissions was our sticking point but we got there in the end….

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

In the mid 70s I had a ride on one of Jack DiFazios hub centre steering bikes. Before the ride he kept saying "Get your feet up straight away", which I pretty much did anyway. The bike felt remarkably stable, and steered a treat, it could be ridden to a standstill, and balanced, feet up, quite easily. The bit that I really enjoyed was the high(ish) speed stability. The lack of diving under brakes was a bit unsettling at first but I reckon that would soon before familiar.

Again, wonderful work!!

cheers

Bill

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Awesome looking machine there. And thanks for the run through on your tank-making methods.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Rusty petrol tank. I have a petrol tank of about 1 gallon capacity as fitted to 1950's two strokes which was very rusty inside, I put some paraffin in the tank and stainless steel screws and shook the lot around for maybe an hour, that was two years ago. I recently bought some resin petrol tank sealer and it says give the tank a pre sealer application of what ?? . A friend suggested the same substance which plumbers use to flush out heating systems. Comments and idea most welcome.John

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Involute Curve on 11/07/2016 20:56:51:

I finally got it finished, its been a while but making the parts is a tiny bit more time consuming then buying them and bolting them on………

The welding on that exhaust is exquisite

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 12/07/2016 01:41:36:

Lovely work. For the last 40 years I have wondered why boring old teles have survived when there is a better solution!!

Wonderful, best of luck!!

cheers

Bill

Consumer acceptance, I believe. Various manufacturers over the years, including IIRC Yamaha or Suzuki, have tried various hub centre alternatives but it looks too radically different from the accepted norm to be accepted by Joe Average.

Cheapness of manufacture would probably favour teles too, I reckon.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you are visiting Wellington (NZ), there is an exhibit there at Te Papa museum worth looking at, it consists of a Britten bike, and Bert Monro's machine, the celebration is 100 years of Motor Cycling NZ, and a number of motor cyclists are also featured I believe, such as Ivan Mauger, and Ronnie Moore, and others.

There is a lot to learn from the Britten V 1000/ V1100 bikes.

Ian S C

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Cheapness of manufacture would probably favour teles too, I reckon.

This and the fact teles have had 50 yrs continuous development by every bike manufacturer in the world, they wont give it up easily, and whilst racing has control tyres FFE will always struggle to compete, in part because they dont work the front tyre as much and so remain relatively cold…..

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

A little banter from the start of an Irish vintage bike rally.

http://www.irishtv.ie/kilkenny-matters-98

 

Oops – forgot to say starts at 11.50 minutes in.

 

Jim

Edited By JimmieS on 16/07/2016 22:10:39

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Yes I understand that teles have been around since pre WW2, BMW used them I believe. Having been in production for such a long time the manufacturers have got production off to a "T", and yes they can be cheaper. But all that chrome plating and grinding must be expensive

As far as racing goes, the reigning champion wants next seasons bike to be like the existing bike, but a bit better. The others want the champions bike, and so on. The sporting road rider wants his bike to look like a racing bike, preferably the champions.

The "ordinary" rider, who maybe enjoys the occasional quick blast up a mountain pass, as well as some touring, probably doesn't care about the champions bike, he wants precise handling and steering, and competent, safe braking. This is where teles fall down, it doesn't matter who made them, as the braking effort compresses the front suspension, the steering geometry changes as the front end dives. At this point the bike is actually less stable at precisely the time that the best stability is required. All riders of modern bikes have become used to the various idiosyncracys and downfalls of teles often without being aware of them.

Then there is the "stiction" involved with teles. To keep the sliding bits in their required precise location is very difficult. The modern approach is to use huge front wheel spindles, with their associated huge bearings etc. Certainly this helps, but it's still a compromise

My point is that, sure teles have been around the best part of 80 years, sure modern ones are pretty good especially when compared to some of the early ones. However sometimes we must look outside the box for a better answer!!

cheers

Bill

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Guy Martin has finished testing at Bonneville the Triumph streamliner they will eventually be back on the salt for the record attempt.

 

 

Edited By Windy on 10/08/2016 10:57:29

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Windy on 10/08/2016 10:55:10:

Guy Martin has finished testing at Bonneville the Triumph streamliner they will eventually be back on the salt for the record attempt.

 

 

Edited By Windy on 10/08/2016 10:57:29

That's nice. Almost 10mph faster than Cal Rayborn in 1970, in a single-engined, unblown, nitro-burning 1400cc Harley Sportster powered streamliner. That's 46 years of progress for you!

Edited By Hopper on 11/08/2016 10:23:19

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 11/08/2016 09:31:21:

That's nice. Almost 10mph faster than Cal Rayborn in 1970, in a single-engined, unblown, nitro-burning 1400cc Harley Sportster powered streamliner. That's 46 years of progress for you!

I hope he had a well-padded saddle

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

IIRC the speed records set by a Stanley Steam car stood for over 100 years!.

neil

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

There was a guy at Manchester Univ who did a lot of research into telescopic forks after several policemen came to grief riding big Beemers. I went to a lecture he gave many years ago, to sum up he reckoned teles were about as bad is it is possible to get unless the 2 sliding members were very well braced together to stop the front wheel tilting over, hence the massive spindles modern bikes have. He fitted a Beemer with leading link forks, I think it was raced by Gus Kuhn Motors, and by all accouns the handling was a lot better than standard. BMW then went onto telelever, which was quite neat and looked more conventional.

Here's a link to the Gus Kuhn site

http://www.guskuhn.net/GKMLtd/Racing/1977DrRoeForks.htm

Edited By duncan webster on 11/08/2016 21:16:58

Edited By duncan webster on 11/08/2016 21:17:51

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