Motorcycle battery charging? Lithium..

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

A new motorcycle has found its way into my garage and its fitted with a oldish lithium battery which seems to have suddenly gone bad….however my question is apparently you need a special charger for lithium PO4..? Which is ok for charging off the bike..but does the charging system on the bike…an  Alton 3 phase generator and regulator know how to charge a lithium battery?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Surely it would be a bit odd to fit a lithium battery but not the right charging system on the bike?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Some Lithium batteries can be used on car type power systems. The key parameters for charging a lithium battery are the maximum current and end voltage. Car systems do not actively control the current but as the cells in this type of battery can supply starter motor currents they can withstand the high initial charge currents. The car type systems regulate the voltage to between 13.8 and 14.4 volts depending on the design. The LiFePO4 cells have a maximum full charge voltage of about 3.65V so a 4 cell battery will work on a car system OK you will get reduced capacity and longer life if the alternator is set to 13.8V rather than 14.4.
You should NOT use a mains powered charger intended for lead acid batteries on LiFePO4 batteries as they typically do not have regulated voltage and will overcharge the LiFePO4. They often have a lot of AC ripple too and lithiums don’t like that either.

Robert.

[John Haine]

On John Haine Said:

Surely it would be a bit odd to fit a lithium battery but not the right charging system on the bike?

Agreed, but maybe a Lithium battery has been incorrectly substituted for whatever the manufacturer provided.

The batteries of yesteryear may not have been efficient, but they were very simple and could be swapped fairly freely.  Lithium batteries are a whole new ball-game with different rules.  They don’t lend themselves to being swapped ‘plug and play’ – it’s necessary to RTFM, (Read The Flipping Manual).  “Suck it and see” methods are likely to be punished because chargers are optimised to maximise the life and charge put into a particular battery.  In comparison, ordinary battery chargers crash about like a bull in a china shop, and any Lithium battery mis-charged by one won’t last long.

What does the motorbike manual say the battery should be?

Dave

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I was under the impression that all reputable lithium batteries supplied in motorcycle, snowmobile et al replacement sizes had internal battery management systems and fuses for plug and play fitting. In such cases battery going down is like to be the fuse or a failed cell causing the BMS to shut down.

Might be worth searching for the vendor data sheet.

Clive

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Alton 3phase!! What’s the bike, just nosy!

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Thanks for the help

its a bit of a bitza so far a Vincent twin fitted with the alton generator but 3 wires (3 phase?) rather than the current models which only have 2 wires..

electric start fitted so need a LOT of starting/cranking amps..

battery fitted seemed to be fine but then just died yesterday at most inconvenient time..it had started engine 10 times during the morning but suddenly nothing…after walking home to get meter and jump pack battery only 8volts and after starting and running for a while still only looks like 8-9 volts..

i have bought a new NOCO NLP20 and was just wondering how to charge it ( on the running bike) bought a new lithium comparable charger at the same time (for home use)

[Ian Parkin]

On 18 December 2024 at 12:00 Ian Parkin Said:

but does the charging system on the bike…an  Alton 3 phase generator and regulator know how to charge a lithium battery?

Battery is dead. Is that the answer?

 

Jimb

[peak4Participant @peak4]

It might be worth reading the explanatory notes here.
Personally, most of mine are AGM
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/advice/bike-maintenance/how-to-choose-charge-best-bike-motorcycle-battery

Bill

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve got a NOCO Charger which can charge Lithium batteries.

https://no.co/genius10

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I have often wondered about fitting a lithium to my bike but info is a bit scant so have stuck with AGM. the starter on my Chief is tiny and has a epycylic gearbox and coupled with coil ignition it goes on the button as they say. Last battery lasted 8 years so not bad going.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Ive ordered a AGM and will see if that will start the snarling beast…

[Ian Parkin]

On Ian Parkin Said:

Ive ordered a AGM and will see if that will start the snarling beast…

It’s probably the best option to be fair; the Lidl chargers seem  to work quite well for the occasional top-up over the winter.
For a bike with only little use, I found adding an easy method of draining the carb to be advantageous.
My XT 600 just doesn’t want to fire up if left unused for a couple of weeks with modern fuel, so I made a brass extended drain screw for easy emptying before starting; rather than draining after use and letting the seals dry out.
It’s a moot point as to whether the ethanol in the fuel attracts water and corrodes the internals, or whether to let it run dry and have the seals harden.
I’ve been filling up with Esso Supreme, as that didn’t have any ethanol for most of the UK despite being labelled as E5, though I think it may have changed recently. I may have to resort to StarTron for longer term storage.
Esso didn’t cause internal corrosion problems, but did go off and prevent starting easily.
Be careful comparing prices of StarTron, as it used to come in different strength/dilution ratios, so the more expensive options might work out cheaper.

Bill

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

The space under the tank is a bit limited and it’s always had a lithium battery fitted and Alton gen and electric start..

[Ian Parkin]

On Ian Parkin Said:

The space under the tank is a bit limited and it’s always had a lithium battery fitted and Alton gen and electric start..

 

That looks interesting; I missed your earlier post saying what engine it had, so I hadn’t considered electric start.

I was thinking Nimbus straight four.

Bill

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I’ve yet to fit a kickstart…circa £1400 to do that

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

@Bill (peak4): I’ll have to disagree with your source a bit. Gel does a good job on MC in my not so humble opinion. I feel entitled to an opinion as I have a 700 Madura which is hell on batteries. However it does look like the opinion on gel has changed a bit, a decade ago they were all the rage for starting applications and now the seem to discourage it.

I used to feed her flooded cells, they lasted 12-18 months. Capacity was still OK, but they couldn’t spin the engine fast enough to start. The last gel batteries has lasted for 5 years or so, honestly I’ve stopped taking notes.I suspect it’s due to their resistance to vibration and discharge/cycle loads.

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