More Lidl questions

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I was in Lidl today and looked at the Parkside items. Amongst them was a welder for under £70 and would like to know whether it would be worth buying. Also, neither of the Lidl shops in Weston Super Mare have stocked the 20V bandsaw which is on the website, and I wonder if it is any good.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

cheap stick welders are useful if you have nothing else. Cheap MIG is not as certain a bargain.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I’m with Jack on this ! DO NOT buy the cheapest rods you can find. Look for 6013 ( SIF ) as the type and 2mm and 2.5mm dia. It may come with an all but useless mask, discard it and buy a full face helmet with an EW9 lens, or if you have the money get an auto darkening one ( about £70 ). I still prefer my full face as above, some like the auto darkener, OK for TIG. If your a novice then do a bit of reading, or watch a few Y tube demos to get an idea of how to do it. Watch the weld pool and learn what it is telling you. If you blow holes it can be because, may be surprising but your current is TO LOW, turn it up a bit. Good Luck. Noel.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I tried a little stick welding about 45 years ago and everything looked nice until I realised that my line of weld was 99% flux.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I think the one the OP is looking at is gasless MIG, so possibly not so good.

I do have a Parkside stick welder (not inverter) that I was given a few years ago, have only used it a couple of times, but seems reasonable.

Rob

[Jonathan RichardsParticipant @jonathanrichards78237]

The OP also mentioned the cordless bandsaw that featured in the both the website puff and the in-store paper promotions. Neither the Truro nor Redruth branches had these on the shelves and they were not listed in the aisle price tickets in either shop. At £49.99 perhaps they were too good to be true!

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

Any stick welder -IE any old ac buzz box transformer welder – is as good as any other stick welder, the success or otherwise of the resulting weld is entirely due to the skill of the operator and the quality of the rod.

DC stick welders are an entirely different kettle of bananas due to choice of polarity of the work/earth and the rod.

I have various examples of both, and I favour the big old AC buzz box welder for my occasional forays into the technology of sticking bits of metal together.

As regards the mask, I have always welded with a handheld mask in my left hand, nothing wrong with that as long as it has the required filter glasses in the mask.

I’ve got a self darkening helmet type mask, and I don’t get on with it, just old muscle memory stuff I guess.

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

<deleted, wrong bandsaw>

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

I have one of their small inverter arc welders and it is a nice little device. It takes up very little room when on the shelf, is quiet when in use and welds nicely. I also have a older AC arc welder that weighs a ton, takes up a lot of space and makes a right din when in use. I prefer the Lidl unit.

James.

[Jonathan Richards]

On Jonathan Richards Said:

The OP also mentioned the cordless bandsaw that featured in the both the website puff and the in-store paper promotions. Neither the Truro nor Redruth branches had these on the shelves and they were not listed in the aisle price tickets in either shop. At £49.99 perhaps they were too good to be true!

Annoying, isn’t it!  My local Lidl, a small one, rarely has goodies.

It’s in the nature of how Aldi/Lidl make money.   Amongst other tricks, prices are kept down by box-shifting and picking up end-of-line and surplus products to be sold cheap as opportunity arises.  Bargain tools are honeypots:   hubby, who normally hates shopping, will happily take wifey to a Lidl if he thinks he might get a useful tool.  I’m fairly sure bargains are earmarked for big city stores so those of us out in the sticks rarely see welders and bandsaws etc.

What you find on sale in a Lidl isn’t consistent.  When reporting bargains, best to say which Lidl store they’re in.  It can’t be assumed that all Lidl stores will have ’em.

Cornwall is a nice place to live, and cheap too, but there are plenty of disadvantages, one of them being shopping!  I’m in North Somerset, rather better served, but have to travel to Bristol or Bath for variety.

Dave

 

 

 

[Grindstone Cowboy]

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

I think the one the OP is looking at is gasless MIG, so possibly not so good.

…

Rob

If this is the device Old Mart has found there are a few worrying things in the blurb:

• Powerful compact device with low energy consumption.   This is sales speak!  A powerful device cannot also have low energy consumption! Might be efficient, but with electric welders the more watts the better.   A welder that runs off a 13A socket is only suitable for small work, up to about 3.1kW, quite restricting.
• Welding current: 20-120A.   More sales speak I fear!  120A continuous would be good, but this is certainly peak output.   This is a small welder.
• This Class A welding device is not intended for use in residential areas where the power is supplied via a public low-voltage supply system.  So, dear customer, not a home workshop tool!   Can be plugged into a 13A socket and will work, but any trouble this causes is the customers problem.   For occasional light hobby use may not be a problem, but don’t be surprised if the thing upsets domestic appliances or the consumer unit!  And heavy work will annoy the neighbours.
• Both conducted and radiated interference can make it difficult to ensure electromagnetic compatibility in these areas.  More bad news!  This device spreads invisible electronic filth, isn’t suitable for professional use, and dubious in a home workshop.  Limited amounts of welding done in a shed at the end of a big garden won’t cause any bother, but think twice about it if close to the neighbours.

In short, this isn’t a plug-and-play product that meets normal standards and will do big welding.   Doesn’t mean it’s useless – might well be handy for light hobby work.   Just don’t expect miracles, and understand the limitations!  An optimist would consider it worth a punt, but pessimists and serious welders should avoid it.   As always, how suitable a tool is depends on the job.  Old Mart hasn’t said what that is yet…

Dave

 

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

Don’t you have Lidl online in the UK?

We can buy items online delivered to your door for a fixed delivery charge of €4.99 for standard items that are not classed as “heavy”.

https://www.lidl.fr/c/outils-et-machines-de-bricolage-pas-chers/a10063368?channel=online&tabCode=Only_Online

(Prices – The euro is at €1.1999 to the pound ATM)

It’s more reliable than waiting until an item is catalogued to be on sale in your local store on Monday, getting down there early and finding out that they didn’t receive any delivery of the item.

 

[howardb]

On howardb Said:

Don’t you have Lidl online in the UK?

…………………..

 

I don’t think we ever did in the UK.
Aldi used to but stopped last year.

Bill

[peak4]

On peak4 Said:

On howardb Said:

Don’t you have Lidl online in the UK?

…………………..

 

I don’t think we ever did in the UK.
Aldi used to but stopped last year.

Bill

Oh i didn’t know about that, I haven’t set foot in the UK for ten years this year!

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Reading the replies, I think I will pass on the welder. Something came up today with a very old Lidl hot air gun which I got out of the garage to shrink sleeves on wiring connections. It worked for about 20 seconds, then there was a bang, the fan motor revved right up followed by a bigger bang. It didn’t trip the RCD but that was the only good thing. I went down to the smaller of the two Lidls and bought one of the 20V battery hot air guns and it was very good for heat shrink work. And only £15.

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

I think the one the OP is looking at is gasless MIG, so possibly not so good.

…

Rob

If this is the device Old Mart has found there are a few worrying things in the blurb:

• Powerful compact device with low energy consumption.   This is sales speak!  A powerful device cannot also have low energy consumption! Might be efficient, but with electric welders the more watts the better.   A welder that runs off a 13A socket is only suitable for small work, up to about 3.1kW, quite restricting.
• Welding current: 20-120A.   More sales speak I fear!  120A continuous would be good, but this is certainly peak output.   This is a small welder.
• This Class A welding device is not intended for use in residential areas where the power is supplied via a public low-voltage supply system.  So, dear customer, not a home workshop tool!   Can be plugged into a 13A socket and will work, but any trouble this causes is the customers problem.   For occasional light hobby use may not be a problem, but don’t be surprised if the thing upsets domestic appliances or the consumer unit!  And heavy work will annoy the neighbours.
• Both conducted and radiated interference can make it difficult to ensure electromagnetic compatibility in these areas.  More bad news!  This device spreads invisible electronic filth, isn’t suitable for professional use, and dubious in a home workshop.  Limited amounts of welding done in a shed at the end of a big garden won’t cause any bother, but think twice about it if close to the neighbours.

In short, this isn’t a plug-and-play product that meets normal standards and will do big welding.   Doesn’t mean it’s useless – might well be handy for light hobby work.   Just don’t expect miracles, and understand the limitations!  An optimist would consider it worth a punt, but pessimists and serious welders should avoid it.   As always, how suitable a tool is depends on the job.  Old Mart hasn’t said what that is yet…

Dave

 

So basically they should not be selling this in a retail store. And they know it. If it doesn’t meet domestic / office EMC requirements it should not have a 13A plug on it and should not be sold to the general public. Apart from interference this type of equipment can damage electronic equipment on the same supply.

Robert.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

No electric metal welder will meet those standards. It can’t be done… Why keep banging on about it? Do you want to prevent anyone from doing anything useful ever again?

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Vast range of tools available in France online.  Many of their power tools, both mains and battery, are made by Grizzly Tools GMBH in Germany and are excellent quality.  They list four different models of welder and a plasma cutter.  My most recent acquisition is a battery operated lawn mower to replace a 30 year old petrol one.  Much easier for this old codger to use!

Shame Lidl won’t deliver to UK.  Perhaps a result of Brexit and requirement of non EU standards?

Russell

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I’m not a coded welder, but did  80 X 4 hours welding course several years ago before inverter welder were around. Since then I have used welders owned by my friends, including those running on 415 volts. Don’t worry your selves about is this welder any good, its ONLY AS GOOD AS THE OPERATOR. I suggest one gets a copy of “FARM WELDING” a book, and read it several times and then, have a lots and lots of practice on scrap metal not rusty stuff. As a child, I was told Rome wasn’t built in a day, same with welders, its practice and analysing the end result to see where you went wrong. When people say that welder is rubbish, its because they are trying to run it beyond its intended capacity. If you want a good stick, home workshop welder, get a “PICKHILL BANTAM” with an oil filled tank. Those cheap inverter type are OK on 3mm sheet steel in side, for which they are intended or make some fancy gate. As for RF/EMI pollution, I’ll leave to those who obviously enjoy writing about it. John

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

No electric metal welder will meet those standards. It can’t be done… Why keep banging on about it? Do you want to prevent anyone from doing anything useful ever again?

And on what do you base that assertion? Are you an EMC expert?

There is no technical reason why a 3kW arc welder cannot be made to meet domestic emissions standards. Doing it with a selling price of £70 is another matter.
I don’t want to stop anyone doing anythig that is legal. I don’t even care if they do something illegal as long as it does not adversly affect anyone else. I don’t see why others should have to suffer interference or worse* just so you can save money and lidl make more profit.

Robert.
An actual EMC professional.

* worse case is interference causes an aircraft crash with multiple fatalities.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Robert

Is it likely that someone using a welder at home could cause interference to an aircraft?

 

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Yes it is. Particuarly an inverter type welder. Aircraft crashes have be caused by interference from the ground before. It is rare though.

[john fletcher 1]

On john fletcher 1 Said:

…  As for RF/EMI pollution, I’ll leave to those who obviously enjoy writing about it. John

The numpties who cause RFI/EMI are the problem, not the people who write about it!

🙂

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Though Robert and I are broadly on the same page, we differ somewhat.  Robert does EMC for a living in a high-risk environment and has to get it right.   Dealing with carelessly produced electronic excretia is a big problem for him, and it might do some good for polluters to realise what they’re doing isn’t harmless.

I’m prepared to take calculated risks.   The unit we’re discussing has limited range, and could be operated in the great outdoors without causing huge problems.  (Robert might assess the risk more aggressively.)  That’s why I suggested a shed at the end of the garden.   Not taken one apart but it’s almost certainly missing the rather expensive filter components fitted to more expensive kit.   Without filtering yuk goes straight into the mains, where it radiates and had might have enough energy to damage home appliances and the smart meter, close neighbours too.    By the by if a smart meter dies after using one of these hide the evidence!   They might charge for fitting a new meter, not cheap!

Out of sight is not out of mind.  Just because there’s no obvious problem with a technologu doesn’t mean all is well!  It’s risky, and I’m not convinced from what’s been said that everyone understands that.  And we’re here to learn aren’t we?

Dave

 

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

What is the status of the lower-cost welders sold through the trade+DIY type chains?

Obviously I do not expect shipyard performance from something you can (I didn’t say should) pick up in one hand and plug into a 13A socket, but one might expect primarily-trade shops to be more careful about what they sell than a supermarket that stocks steel-fabrication equipment between the cornflakes and carpet-slippers.

(Similarly really with any other tools. Perhaps setting electrically-noisy welders and plasma-cutters apart, Lidl’s Parkside range are generally fine for light DIY and model-engineering duty if used sensibly. I’ve certainly had my money’s worth from mine, still working as they should; but I’d still prefer ToolStation or equivalent for beefier or more legal kit. Though I can’t recall quite from whom I did buy my cored-MIG welder…..)

Directly-radiated signal strength from a point source attenuates with radius by an inverse-square law, though I’d still not want to bring down one of the helicopters often flying over my village, albeit probably at some hundreds of feet altitude. Is that a realistic hazard with a low-powered “DIY” welder? What is the range at which they may be a nuisance to anyone, let alone a danger?

The noise put into the mains may be a more serious proposition. Are 13A plug-in mains filters readily available?

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