Moore and wright tools

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I suspect that the C frame on a mic will distort the geometry of the measuring faces and introduce errors greater than just the expansion of the material if one part of the C is warmed more than the rest. I would imagine that the outer edge of the C would tend to be warmed as most people hold it in their palm with a finger through the frame to measure small parts. I would think this would tend to close the frame up and affect the parallelism of the measuring faces. Anyone got a metrology lab to check what happens?

Mike

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Er, nothing in the normal world we inhabit. Unless your shed is permanently at 20C.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Invar will only expand/contact by as little a 0.5ppm/K if very pure. 1.2 for most. Only a tenth of normal steels. Not worth worrying about.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Look at Mitutoyo's own website/databooks.

"The graphs above show the change in size of a standard length bar when held in the hand at palm temperatures of 21…"

They don't pretend their tools are perfect – they even point out that their larger micrometers will give different readings depending which way up you hold them – and give example errors which are big enough to matter in a metrology situation.

Neil

"It is recommended to use the instrument by performing zero-setting with teh instrument ijn eth same orientation as it will be used in practice"

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

I have a Moore and Wright question.

I did not want to start a new thread.

This one look like the closest fit .

So –

I'm purchasing one of the Moore & Wright Dial Indicator 0-0.8mm advertised by Myford.

link

Anyone willing to offer an opinion on the likely virtues or failings of said indicator.

It Is still probably better than the work it will be used with

Thanks in advance for any consideration given.

Frank C.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Chuck Taper on 20/02/2023 16:54:18:

I have a Moore and Wright question.

I did not want to start a new thread.

This one look like the closest fit .

So –

[…]

Anyone willing to offer an opinion on the likely virtues or failings of said indicator.

[…]

.

Fully jewelled bearings and carbide points sounds like a good start

… it isn’t clear what “points” you get though

and assuming that they mean the [singular] ball, as per the photo, then I prefer the cleverly designed Verdict pear-shape.

MichaelG.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Frank,

I'm not sure why you don't want to start a new thread, but I would have found a new thread with a meaningful title more helpful than an exhumed thread from five years ago.

George

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

This thread is Moore and wright tools.

Dial Indicators were not represented.

Now they are.

Also I'm rubbish at meaningful thread titles

Regards

Frank C.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Chuck Taper on 20/02/2023 16:54:18:

I have a Moore and Wright question.

I did not want to start a new thread.

This one look like the closest fit .

So –

I'm purchasing one of the Moore & Wright Dial Indicator 0-0.8mm advertised by Myford.

link

Anyone willing to offer an opinion on the likely virtues or failings of said indicator.

It Is still probably better than the work it will be used with

Thanks in advance for any consideration given.

Frank C.

More money than I would care to spend on a comparator, but hey it's a decent make. If needed for bragging rights, something like a Mitutoyo 543-554E Absolute Digimatic Indicator would be more fun.

My Far Eastern gauge cost £15 and it's the second I bought. The first didn't survive being dropped on a concrete floor, but being cheap at least the accident didn't break my heart as well. I'd need counselling if I broke a £65 dial, let alone a £500 Mitutoyo!

Are £15 dials just as good as more expensive ones? No – they tend to be sticky, making it essential to take a few readings before trusting the result. Good enough for my simple needs, but liable to slow down a quick worker, and irritate anyone used to a better made instrument.

I guess the M&W instrument was made in China to a mid-range specification. Probably above average for the type, and not just ordinary fare rebadged with a famous logo. As far as I know the world isn't full of people complaining about them, so 'fit for purpose' and 'value for money'.

In the good old days, turners didn't have lever dials. They managed with a simple arm thing that waggled on a pivot. I believe they work well enough, but indicate rather than measure and are probably fussy time-wasters to set up.

I've enjoyed a few sessions experimenting with ordinary calipers rather than using newfangled micrometers, verniers, digital doofers and whatnot. Requires more practice and concentration than modern methods, but I got some acceptable results. Easier with decent tools though!

Dave

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Chuck Taper on 20/02/2023 16:54:18:

I'm purchasing one of the Moore & Wright Dial Indicator 0-0.8mm advertised by Myford.

link

Anyone willing to offer an opinion on the likely virtues or failings of said indicator.

It Is still probably better than the work it will be used with

Thanks in advance for any consideration given.

Frank C.

Back in the day when M & W made decent tools & no one had heard of China I don't recall them making dial indicators? Having said that I would imagine M & W are now owned by another company & they are using it to push a range of tools, undoubtedly made in China but no worse for that, if it's not fit for purpose return it for a full refund.

Tony

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I would go for a 10mm or 1/2" stroke plunger type, the 2 I have are good for .0005". The one shown only has a stroke of .8mm – but it depends on what you want it for ? Noel.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

moore and wright still make most of their mechanical micrometers in Sheffield, the top picture is their top of the line model made in Sheffield, the second down is their middle range model which is made in Sheffield and the bottom picture is their budget model made in the far east.

It's unfair to say they don't make good quality tools anymore because you cheap out and choose their budget models.

Edited By Pete. on 21/02/2023 00:36:13

[samuel heywoodParticipant @samuelheywood23031]

Only got a couple of 'new' M&W tools

My 12" rule (thin) is the best rule i ever had,niot cheap but woth it.

Only i seem to have lost it , so will have to buy another to ensure i find it again!

Also have a tiny 30mm x 40mm M & W square~plenty good enough for me.

I would suggest it is somewhat unfair to assume Far Eastern manufacturers cannot produce goods of comparable quality to Western manufacturers.

If M & W has specified a standard, i'd assume the manufacturers are working to it.

The reason many (consumer) far eastern goods are 'cheap & nasty' is the importers generally want the goods for the lowest price possible~ kinda supply & demand.

[samuel heywoodParticipant @samuelheywood23031]

….ask yourself how good is good enough?

Your mileage may vary, but most of the time my cheap Aldi calipers are good enough.

I have had a couple of jobs where i had to reach for the 'special' Japanese 1/10 thou reading micrometer.

Though i am the opposite of an 'expert' i was under no illusions i was actually measuring accurately to 1/10 thou..thankfully .it was a comparative measure i was after & worked out nicely.

Edited By samuel heywood on 22/02/2023 00:12:42

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

M & W stuff is used in industry, (or used to be ) so should be reasonably accurate and long lived.

VERY few of us can even maintain our shops at a closely controlled 20C, let alone controlled humidity, so we do not work under Standards Room or calibration Room conditions.

If we can REALLY get within a 0.0001", consistently, we have done very well.

If we really want to chase sub micron dimensions, the ratchet on every micrimeter needs to be calibrated so that the force exerted distorts the frame by a controlled amount, in our closely controlled environment.

Somehow, I don't see that happening

Howard

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

I have listed a load of measuring items.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Well here is a question regarding cheap versus costly. If the device is a plunge type dial indicator on a stand and used as a comparator where is the advantage of high quality versus cheap an cheerful. The only demand is that the instrument can return to the same reading several times in a row.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 23/02/2023 20:43:27

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 23/02/2023 20:41:33:

If the device is a plunge type dial indicator on a stand and used as a comparator where is the advantage of high quality versus cheap an cheerful. The only demand is that the instrument can return to the same reading several times in a row.

The cheap and cheerful one may be less likely to give accurate repeat readings even several times in a row, let alone in the long term.

It really depends on the quality of its construction; a tear-down could probably show whether the cheap one is objectively inferior constructionally to a top branded counterpart. Not that many of us would be prepared to do a side by side tear down if we'd paid for both of them ourselves.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I suppose what I’m saying really is periodic errors are irrelevant the gears are in the same mesh the down force is the same so variations at different readings don’t matter. If you are attempting differential readings then you need something of quality. I’m not sure it’s really necessary when using an indicator for setting things to run true in the lathe . They are ‘indicators’ after all rather than absolute measuring devices so once they show no wobble you are there.Sensitivity however is another question.

Just gentle musings really rather than trying to make a big thing of it.

regards Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bill Phinn on 24/02/2023 00:37:46:

.

The cheap and cheerful one may be less likely to give accurate repeat readings even several times in a row, let alone in the long term.

It really depends on the quality of its construction; a tear-down could probably show whether the cheap one is objectively inferior constructionally to a top branded counterpart. Not that many of us would be prepared to do a side by side tear down if we'd paid for both of them ourselves.

.

Very well-put, Bill

What we need is a ‘special interest’ Magazine, whose advertisers are willing to provide sample products for an impartial review including tear-down.

Can’t see much hope of that though

MichaelG.

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

100% with MichaelG.

But I would suggest – we really need is a dedicated Wilki.

Everyone contributes, edits, manages – ad infinitum.

Regards

Frank C.

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