Model Engineer – Editorial direction

[Bruce EdneyParticipant @bruceedney59949]

I'm with Bill P.

IMHO, some members need a chill pill

Thanks Diane and Neil for a great duo of mags of which I have also just renewed my sub for.

Regards

Bruce

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

I purchase MEW from my local newsagent. Apart from the subscription 'horror stories' that regularly surface, in a small town the local newsagent is handy to have around so don't mind waiting for my 'reserved' copy and help keep the local economy going.

As for the cheapskates that think that the local newsagent is a free reading library, sometimes it is difficult to get past them to even see which magazines are in, and then one has to buy a second hand copy with all grubby piggy finger marks – yukk!

ME is a different (personal) thing, nothing wrong with it but I'm not into steam (we do have an excellent local club – Lake Hume Model Engineers) although occasional issues do have something of interest (I still remember the Jones I.C. engine article) so purchase as required. Upcoming content read about 'online' btw.

What actually does concern me is that Dianne (& presumably Neil) are at this 53 weeks a year. No time off! No holidays! No break!

I could imagine the howls of protest (probably from some muppet in his deckchair in the Costa de Lot) if the editorial and support staff announced "There shall be no September editions as we are going on holidays in August – like the rest of you".

We should all be greatful that many of us live in a country where we actually have the choice of which magazine to purchase.

To both the editors, well done. You can only depend on the submissions, so keep them coming in people.

* Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 16/03/2016 05:45:49

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by clivel on 15/03/2016 23:45:40:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/03/2016 22:26:11:

Clive was actually castigating Diane for not chasing people to get them to contribute; I don't think he can complain if he then gets chased!

Actually that was Julian, who I might add, with his wealth of experience is probably far more capable than I at making a worthwhile contribution to ME.

Clive

Sorry Clive,

Neil

[Stewart HartParticipant @stewarthart90345]

Posted by Lambton on 15/03/2016 07:48:00:

Diane tells us that she produces the ME single handed and I quite accept this .

In this case what are all the other people listed on the first page of every ME doing?

I refer to people with titles such as such as Technical Assistant, Production Designer, Illustrator, Retouching Manager, Ad Production, Head of Design and Production, etc.

Beaver away in the background and practise at being unsung heroes.

Stew

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Forget the moderator tag at the side, I am entitled to and do have a personal opinion.

Does anyone else see the TOTAL hypocrisy in Nigel's remarks above ?

Openly states that he no longer subscribes to either of the magazines, admits to going into WH Smitt and company to read but not buy the magazine and then has the gall to come on here and say how things should be run and force his views onto the rest who have a right to be here ?

Perhaps before going all "Outraged of Nottingham" you might review the original post and read all of my comments before picking up on one part ?

A quick rough & ready calculation suggests I spent more with the various publishers of MEW and ME on subscriptions than I spent on buying, refurbishing & toooling my Super 7. Any normal business would be interested to find out why they had lost a regular customer – do Aldi (for instance) look upon my answers to their survey question as to why I don't regularly buy their fresh produce as hypocrisy, seeing as I say I don't regularly buy their fresh produce due having a had poor experiences with the quality in the past ? Or do they use the exercise to establish if there may be an issue to be addressed that may make me return if they addressed it ? And in the mean time, would they take issue with checking the quality of the produce prior to each purchase and deciding on a week by week basis if the purchase is warranted ?

Why don't we bring back the old reader's help voucher system when you had to quote a coupon number of of the mag to get a help query published.

And while you are at it, why not make these "closed" forums & put off a few more potential subscribers ? Or put your Moderator's hat back on and cull anything that doesn't toe the party line ?

[edit] Added TOTAL hypocrisy to the post

To continue to blindly purchase something that is not meeting your needs, just because you have done so for a long time, is stupidity in my book.

TOTAL stupidity ?

Nigel B.

[Bruce EdneyParticipant @bruceedney59949]

Mods – time to close this thread me thinks

[John FieldingParticipant @johnfielding34086]

I also have to support Neil on his stance about the "hecklers" when challenged to write an article.

I have been submitting articles to various publication on several topics for probably 35 years. My very first one looking back now – was dreadful! I sent it to three different magazines in a hand written format with some hand drawn diagrams, as that was the best I could manage. It concerned some experiments I had been working on a new concept. Of the three magazine, one sent a one line reply saying "thanks – but no thanks". One magazine never even had the courtesy to reply but the third one must have taken pity on me and sent a very nice letter to me.

In it the editor explained that although the subject would indeed interest the readers I would need to do some extra work and then listed the things I needed to tidy up or change. If I resubmitted it with the requested changes they would consider publishing it. Which they eventually did and I was over the moon. My very first published article in a real magazine, with my name on it. What a boost to the esteem!

From that day on I had the confidence to write more articles and gradually improved my writing and presentation. Many good ideas are never heard of because, either the writer either thinks nobody would be interested in it, or they are just too busy or lazy to find the time to put something down on paper. Neil and Diane will tell you that even if you sent the article scribbled on the back of an old envelope and it was topical and something that the readers would be interested in, then they would move heaven and earth to knock it into shape for publication. Maybe not on an old envelope, but as long as it legible and coherent so they could get the main parts clarified it could and would be given the magic treatment to go into print. They would of course much prefer the article in electronic format with correctly annotated picture or diagram numbers and captions sent separately, but that is merely details as it reduces the work they have to do to convert into DTP format. But you would quickly learn the details and the better the presentation and format greatly increases the success rate of it being published. And don't forget they also pay by the page! Diane and Neil have published some of my work of late, but I use several different non de plume's depending on which magazine type I am writing for. My technical books are published the name you see here but my fictional books uses two different other names, which I will let you try and puzzle out!

So you will never know if you just sit on your backside and don't pick up your pen and sent it to the editor. Who knows you could have some brilliant new idea which could start a chain reaction as others picked up on the idea and did their own work and it could be a game changer. If the subject matter isn't what the editor requires right now often it will be kept on file and could be used later. Diane has told me she is working on a special edition which will appear soon where it will be a collection of articles which cover a common theme, but I won't spoil the surprise!

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Diane and Stewart

"Diane tells us that she produces the ME single handed and I quite accept this .

In this case what are all the other people listed on the first page of every ME doing?"

I had no ulterior motive for asking this question. It is my way to ask for explanations or clarifications when I do not fully understand things rather than just guess at the answer.

Diane has kindly given a very clear answer for which I thank her.

Eric

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

• Diane, From the outset I would like to state that my comments were not intended to hurt, nor were they intended as a personal attack in any form, nevertheless I do appreciate that you may find them upsetting. I had hoped that my comments would be seen as constructive, but of course perceptions differ depending on which side of the table one sits.

I was neither hurt nor upset, Clive and the post was not taken as a personal attack. I only replied because I didn't agree with some of the comments and thought they were unfounded. If the magazine is no longer satisfying your requirements then that's the way it is.

However…

• The one point however that I do feel very strongly about, and I am sure that I am not alone, is the publication of construction series without drawings.

The Garrett 4CD and the Mastiff, which are the two main series articles I take it you are referring to, both exist as published desgins in their own right, where full sets of drawings are avaialble. The writer in each case is taking the reader through his own methods of construction with reference, where necessary, to those available drawings. There would be very little point in taking up scores of pages in repeating what can already be purchsed elsewhere. In this they differ from the traditional construction series where the writer is describing his design for the first time – as, for example, Ray McMahon was. If a reader wishes to undertake the build he will purchase the drawings; if he does not he may simply read the text from an observer's point of view in the hope, perhpas, of picking up something useful for whatever he is building or considering.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Nigel,

I think that John's comment was based on the fact that BOTH magazines have change considerably since you were a subscriber.

Thumbing through copies in WHS and properly reading through a few issues are not the same thing; I am personally more likely to give attention to well-informed criticism.

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 16/03/2016 02:47:06:

I think the concept of a "virtual club" is an excellent one,

 

But unfortunately one that repeatedly gets taken too far. In a "real" club, the club magazine is put together by members who (presumably "lovingly"  ) freely donate their time and energy to it. Under those circumstances it is reasonable to expect the other members to cut them considerable slack and to assist by donating articles or by other means. And it's reasonable to say they shouldn't complain if they aren't contributing.

But that's where the concept breaks down here. These magazine are commercial ventures with paid staff and subscribed to at market rates by the reader. There is no expectation or onus on those readers to contribute directly to the magazine nor any justification for denying their right to express an opinion if they don't ….. in that respect it's no different from any other commercial product.

edited to remove spurious "winky"

Edited By Bandersnatch on 16/03/2016 14:18:40

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 16/03/2016 14:17:58:

Posted by Bill Pudney on 16/03/2016 02:47:06:

I think the concept of a "virtual club" is an excellent one,

But unfortunately one that repeatedly gets taken too far. In a "real" club, the club magazine is put together by members who (presumably "lovingly" ) freely donate their time and energy to it. Under those circumstances it is reasonable to expect the other members to cut them considerable slack and to assist by donating articles or by other means. And it's reasonable to say they shouldn't complain if they aren't contributing.

But that's where the concept breaks down here. These magazine are commercial ventures with paid staff and subscribed to at market rates by the reader. There is no expectation or onus on those readers to contribute directly to the magazine nor any justification for denying their right to express an opinion if they don't ….. in that respect it's no different from any other commercial product.

edited to remove spurious "winky"

Edited By Bandersnatch on 16/03/2016 14:18:40

ME and MEW have always had the majority of their content written by readers. the same is true of most aeromodelling, boat and electronic publications, indeed most hobby publications.

Whilst no reader should feel obliged to write, without occasionally highlighting the opportunity, I refuse to feel guilty about giving people the opportunity to do so, or expressing the view that most contributors to this forum could make a worthwhile contribution to the magazines if they so wish.

I can't see anyone being denied or suppressed in expressing their opinion here, either. Believe it or not we do read these (and other) posts and they do influence the way the magazines develop – but we are also aware that the opinions expressed here (some of which are diametrically opposed) represent only a tiny fraction of the readership.

I wonder how many other publications would allow such frank discussion of these issues on their own website?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 16/03/2016 14:17:58:

Posted by Bill Pudney on 16/03/2016 02:47:06:

I think the concept of a "virtual club" is an excellent one,

But unfortunately one that repeatedly gets taken too far. …

But that's where the concept breaks down here. These magazine are commercial ventures with paid staff and subscribed to at market rates by the reader. There is no expectation or onus on those readers to contribute directly to the magazine nor any justification for denying their right to express an opinion if they don't ….. in that respect it's no different from any other commercial product.

.

Well said, Sir

Note: Whilst I cannot comment on ME, I do subscribe to MEW and am very happy with its current balance of content.

MichaelG.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/03/2016 14:28:44:

I can't see anyone being denied or suppressed in expressing their opinion here, either.

…. but there are those here that would. That was the point.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I'd just like to add my tuppenceworth.

As regards the repeating of same or similar information. I well remember when I first became involved some 25+ years ago, that I had to ask the very basic question “What was milling, and what was a milling machine?” Fortunately, I had a work colleague who was building an 0-6-0 loco and who patiently answered my questions. He also told me about Tubal Cain's Model Engineering Handbook, and Blackgates Engineering.

Today, having bought and read all the Workshop Practice Series books, every issue of MEW, the Peter Wright book on Model Engineering, plus lots of experimentation, I find my self in a similar position to my work colleague in that I have a friend along the road who is at present building a steam engine for use in one of his model boats. and who keeps asking how I would do something. This friend is no fool, as he has a degree in chemical engineering.

What actually brought it home to me was the other evening when I mentioned how I was going to engrave 80 graduations around the periphery of a ring, ie mount a 40T gear wheel on the tail end of the mandrel, arrange a detent which could either sit in between two teeth, or over one tooth, and wrap a cord around the chuck with a heavy weight on it to take up the slack. His comment? “Where did you get that idea from?” My reply was to the effect that it's in the books (actually, it's more likely the magazine). But the point is that he had never heard or seen the idea of the cord plus weight.

I think, then, that there is a very strong case to be made for repeating what seems to be basic ideas, because, as shown above, there will be people who simply don't know.

Following on from the above, there is a need for experienced and knowledgeable people to pass on their experience and knowledge. What would I have done all those years ago? I didn't know about ME, MEW didn't exist, neither did this website, and although some years later I found another two work colleagues who were into model engineering, I would have struggled.

In my own small way I have tried to help beginners, indeed one of the articles I have had published, “Robs Old Dressing Table”, was specifically written as a direct result of some comments on either the website, or in a letter to MEW from someone complaining about writers using phrases such as “in the usual way”. The writer pointed out that “in the usual way” is fine if you are experienced, but if not, what then? How do you find out? My article was thus written in an attempt to show how I went about this particular project with every step documented. I even included comments on things that went wrong. I fully appreciate that the old hand doesn't need to know why I use a 50mm long wrench on a 6BA tap, but does a newcomer?

I think the idea of this forum acting as a club is a very good idea. For one thing, it allows me to ask questions, although it is probably more likely these days to get peoples ideas about a course of action I've already decided on. (That's something I miss now I'm well and truly retired – the ability to discuss things.)

For the record then, keep up the good work Neil, I for one will keep buying MEW even though there may not be anything much in any particular issue.

Final comment – I'm no expert. I fully recognise that there are people on this forum who have much more experience and knowledge than I have. Please don't stop contributing, for where would I be without the backup of whoever it was told me which grade of brass to use for Robs Old Dressing Table!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

A story from my perspective.

Many many issues of MEW ago I did my usual trick, possibly like many of picking the mag up, having a quick flick thru and mentally marking off what i wanted to read when I got a few quiet moments.

Now depending on what's in each issue that can relate to as low as 3 articles up to 8 -10 if what I call a good issue.

So this particular issue, can't remember which one but it will become apparent in a bit was not a good issue for me. Only a couple of items that held my attention. These were read and the mag put away with the rest.

Fast forward a few years and I got interested in etching brass to produce some fine parts, so googled a bit and saw the workshop practice book so bought it. Read it but still felt I was missing something so Googled a bit more and spotted a reference to an article in MEW.

So dug it out and lo and behold it was the mag I had rated as not interesting, saw the article on etching, didn't read it as beyond my pay grade.

Sat down and read the article and everything clicked. IMHO the article was better than the WP series book.

So interests change and what doesn't rock you boat now, may do in the future.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I do think that ME needs to adopt a different apprroach and perhaps, if the owners allow, revert to the policy of years ago in so much as having regular valued contributors almost on the 'pay roll'. They were often asked to write what the magazine wanted, as opposed to what those individuals would have prefered to write and draw.

It seems to me a fundamental problem that nowadays ME relies on what is supplied in the way of articles. It does not commision any articles so far as I am aware anymore.

I would suggest there is quite a difference between some of what is supplied and gets printed, as opposed to what would be of interest to readers. This is no criticism of Diane – she has to work within the strictures laid down by her employers.

Cheers,

Julian

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by julian atkins on 17/03/2016 00:13:36:

….. and perhaps, if the owners allow, revert to the policy of years ago in so much as having regular valued contributors almost on the 'pay roll'.

Good luck getting any senior executives in the publishing industry to allow ANYTHING that might cost money these days.

I don't know the specifics for magazines, but 150 local newspapers in the UK have closed down in recent years because of lack of advertising revenue since the internet took over the market. And the nationals are feeling the pinch too, with the Independent announcing its imminent closure last week.

The last holdout of the print industry is the special-interest niche-market magazines like ME and Silkworm Breeder's Gazette. But even those are struggling in the face of the movement of advertising from print to the much less lucrative internet environment. (Subscriptions/cover price typically make up only 20 per cent of a publication's revenue. Advertising is where the money really comes from.)

So there is no way extra editorial staff will be put "more or less on the payroll" in the current commercial climate.

The other factor is the dwindling number of experts such as GH Thomas, Prof Chaddock and company who had a wealth of practical professional experience in the field, plus the motivation and the time to research, write and draw up in-depth articles. The movement of our manufacturing industries to Asia means there will be fewer and fewer "time-served" engineers who can bring their expertise to our hobby the way GHT and others did. These days, the only experts we produce are "baristas" who believe that making a cup of coffee is an achievement. I'm sure they have their own magazines somewhere…

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Seems to be a lot of remarks about people and personalities here, but very few postings addressing what is lacking in magazine content. I admit to stopping subscribing several years ago because I felt that most of the articles at the time seemed to take what I can only describe as a "professional approach". I don't mean this as an attack on the standards – but as a pensioner, I cannot afford to take the expensive approach to model making which many of the articles take. I tend to spend a lot of my time 'faffing about' to see what I can do with what I have available, or scrounging around to try and find something to do the job. This is not to say I don't enjoy it.

I think this is reflected in some of the articles in the older magazines. Many of LBSCs articles (for example), contain descriptions of making items which in which he clearly describes what could be called 'an alternative' way to do things. I am sure this was probably caused by the lack of certain materials and tools in his day, so he did whatever was necessary to achieve a result, but I would argue that for some of us the situation has not changed – I admire some of the models featured in the magazine, but will never be able to afford to buy the necessary tools and materials to build something like them.

I also happen to think that Health and Safety diktats contribute to the problem. I am not proposing we ditch H&S, but many things which I still do, and will continue to do, would never be approved by H&S. That is my risk – I do not insist anyone else should do the same. I have just read an article in an old ME about producing an air-driven spinning top rotating at over 200,000 rpm – interesting to me, but I can just imagine the furore if ME printed that today.

I can only aspire to do the best I can with what I have so one consequence was that since I could not afford them, I stopped buying a magazine that was increasingly expensive and contained less and less interesting material compared to earlier times (and I think that is a subject for another post as to the reasons.)

End result is that I now still lurk here occasionally, simply to keep in touch, but have no interest in the magazine. I just mess about doing what I can in my workshop. It would be good to be able to talk to people in a similar position, and discuss what we do, but that seems not to be possible.

Okay, Rant over – back to the shed.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I think this is reflected in some of the articles in the older magazines. Many of LBSCs articles (for example), contain descriptions of making items which in which he clearly describes what could be called 'an alternative' way to do things. I am sure this was probably caused by the lack of certain materials and tools in his day, so he did whatever was necessary to achieve a result, but I would argue that for some of us the situation has not changed – I admire some of the models featured in the magazine, but will never be able to afford to buy the necessary tools and materials to build something like them.

I too started off on the cheapo route and in the longer run have not regretted it. If I had started off when I had a barrowload of cash to splurge I would have taken an entirely different route into the hobby, buying up a nice set of machine tools. The limited cash and machinery route has taught me a heck of a lot about metals and materials, albeit at a cost of progress made to date and I find myself experimenting more and more with finding simple solutions than producing concrete outputs

That's what I like the most about the hobby, learning something new

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Neil summed it up quite well.

Cannot comment on M E as not a reader. Am M E W subscriber. Not all articles do interest me, but sometimes, like JS, a return to an earlier Issue provides inspiration or the solution to a problem.

(Not having CAD, do not read the articles, but many others things are interesting/useful, at some time. As are the Workshop Practice books, G H Thomas, Sparey etc)

Reading back issues is like this Forum, addictive, and informative.

This Forum is a great asset, you learn about things that come in useful later, (Some are in the "Not many people know that" category, but no knowledge is totally wasted)

Note to editors, if needed, You won't please all the people, all of the time. One man's meat is another man's poission, (deliberate spelling mistake/pun) and all that.

The measure will be, if the magazine content is wrong, sales will decrease. If you get it more or less right, sales will increase.

Howard

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 17/03/2016 12:06:05:

The measure will be, if the magazine content is wrong, sales will decrease.

.

Which appears to be where we came in …

Quote from the opening post:

"It is still some months before my current subscription runs out, but based on how little enjoyment I receive from ME in it's current incarnation, I for one, will not be renewing my subscription."

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

___If you get it more or less right, sales will increase.___

Or if it's already more or less right they will stay the same, . . . . . or if there are more than one value of right corresponding to different populations of readers . . . . ?

If you broaden the scope to include more readers then there will be less specificity for any individual. I certainly don't read everything just as long as I can read something.

Well done Diane and Neil anyhow.

Martin

[John FieldingParticipant @johnfielding34086]

Unfortunately magazine published for the hobbyist are too many for the target market. The money that the publishers take in from subscriptions will never cover their running costs alone. To make a profit it needs advertisers who desire to punt their products to a wider market. After al is that the reason to be in business, to turn a profit?

So if a magazine is perceived to be losing subscription numbers then advertisers will jump ship and go elsewhere, then the magazine which was in only a little nose down attitude turns into a vertical dive and the whole thing crashes.

ME went threw this phase many times over its long history and had to be propped up by investors a few times. The current owners of ME and MEW I know fairly well, they are sort of like family to me! The whole gamut of the various titles covers a huge range of interests, some of which are of no interest to me at all. But the saving grace is that if one magazine title has a bit of a bumpy ride hopefully the others are doing fairly well and can take up the slack, its called diversity funding.

A classic example was Myford. They had been making a loss year in year out, but just now they would turn the corner and things would pick up. The major shareholder had supreme faith in the company when he bought in many years ago. Unfortunately he popped his clogs and the money supply dried up and they went bust.

As far as content goes and needing a mentor type contributor like LBSC did all those years ago, I think Diane has an idea up her sleeve. I will say no more!

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

ME andf MEW are MyTimeMedia and only EIM is TEE Publishing, different stables.

I have authored various articles in the past with both mags but must confess I am much happier trying to help on this Forum. If for no other reason than with a published article you get minimal or no feedback of whether it was of interest, relevant or just plain boring. Here at least contributors do react!

[Author]

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