Miniature welding

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I think the skill can be easily learnt.

Today we have You tube which love it or hate it has some very good information on it. Many manufacturers are putting training video’s up to promote sales.

 

I feel that given a few hours I could achieve what’s required here, problem is I don’t need the skill and can’t justify the time spent at the moment.

 

It’s well worth doing a search on You tube for TiG welding video’s, at least you get to see practical examples and not theory.

 

[EDIT] This is an ideal starter machine, does stick and TiG on everything except aluminium

 

DC TiG Welder

 

Usual no connection etc.

Edited By John Stevenson on 09/01/2011 13:24:33

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I’m still a young’ne by the sounds of it, as I’ve only been welding for 42 years, not solid but frequently on a weekly time scale. in all sorts of situations from the bench to spots where you only hold a dark glass. As I’ve said in my first post, it will depend largely on your welding skill. The versitility of the equipment will help, but it is not the be all and end all of the process.

 

There are several differant skill levels from the jobber to the very refined. I class myself as very skilled in heavey duty stick and mig, I used to be very good at gas when it was still used frequently and before tig became cost effective for a lot of companies. In my old company I used to work for they just had one of the first add on affairs.

 

If you have a good skill only practice will improve it. In my time I’ve been able to weld things others could not, but on the other hand there were others who could weld (to make a good looking and sound job) that I myself could not get the hang of.

 

Therefore I think you need the skill ability in the first place. No equipment will make you a good welder if you don’t have the skill. Modern gear may make an average skilled welder better, but it will still come down to practice makes perfect.

 

Pretty looking welds don;t make them sound. I’ve seen some very pretty looking welds on brand new equipment, but after being put into service for a couple of months or so, it has all cracked up and muggins here has had to go and cut it all out and reweld it, didn’t look as pretty as the first weld, but it didn;t need doing again.

 

Regards Nick.

 

P.S. Been there done that got the T shirt for that sort of job John, some have 4″ or so in diameter.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 09/01/2011 14:23:36

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 09/01/2011 14:24:39

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Well damn me, all those years on my apprenticeship and at Tech. with all those tests to destruction to check penetration and strength (not to mention torsion, shear and tensile tests) and all those many hours on training courses year after year to upgrade my skills as new equipment and techniques were introduced, all wasted when I could have just spent a couple of hours on YouTube.

 

No wonder we make so little these days when the skills are so easily learned that any old Korean or Chinaman with an internet connection can pick them up, just wait ’til the jungle tribes of Borneo get broadband connections.

 

regards

 

Terry

P.S. Hi Nick, I also hated grinding out those failed welds and re-welding it was more difficult to get good looking welds than when doing virgin ones, it must have something to do with the change of composition of the parent metal during the original welding.  The worst bit which I hated was grinding out and re-welding when the X-rays revealed faults such as inclusions and porosity, usually in the most awkward of places.

Edited By Terryd on 09/01/2011 17:09:47

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Terry this is a good one on youtube, not sure if its quite what John had in mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgAThGrCV4A&feature=related

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jason, forgive me for being a bit sceptical about that youtube video.

 

Regards Nick.

[James fortinParticipant @jamesfortin46829]

im sure the health and inspectors are pleased with the wiring in  the fuse box  

 

james 

[peter walton 1Participant @peterwalton1]

Those oxygen/hydrogen welders had one big drawback – drawback in which the flame would disapear inside the needle, help switch off quick.

Plus the fact that they do not put out much in the way of heat, you could get more heat by bubbling the gas through some meths to put a bit more heat in the flame, still got that bit in the garage but junked the generator ages ago, just to slow and cold!!

 

Peter

[Paul BoscottParticipant @paulboscott25817]

Thank you again for all of your contributions

 

And I will take that as a NO then and put my funds to some other way of doing it

 

Thank you all for your help

 

Paul

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Gee Jason,

 

That’s great, and to think of all those wasted years I spent training

Regards

Terry

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Paul, can I ask what the subject is and will it have to be heat proof? I’m a great believer in KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. If you can assemble the parts functionally using silver solder or soft solder, do so, but then fake the scale welds some other way. At least if they don’t look pretty enough, they won’t be a permanent addition and you can keep re-doing them until you get the visual look you like. It’s the path of least grief.

[Metal moverParticipant @metalmover]

Paul, ask around to see if anyone near you has one of these inverter welders, you can weld M M A and touch T I G, if you find someone who well let you play, grind yourself a long fine piont on a 1mm tungsten,assemble a sample of that which you require to weld, place a scratch pad ajoining the sample, and get practicing, low amps good glasses,get in close to see what you are doing, brace your wrist for a steady hand,you will need to favour the thicker metal,  watch your weld pool which should be only slightly larger than the arc produced by the tungsten electrode, keep your nozzle angle to around 15 degrees and you should get a weld bead of around the size you are looking for. the only thing you can loose is a few shillings for gas and electric. good luck

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

One way that may work better is to run along the joint and do a seam weld, this will give a smooth weld at that thickness with no weld pools.

Then experiment with the pulse settings and go back over it, every time it pulses it creates a weld pool and the characteristic half moon.

 

This way the welder is doing all the work,with the automatic pulse feature, all you have to do is get a constant feed so the weld pools are equal and even.

 

John S.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Peter,

Have you got that the right way around? If you go to the manufacturers site  and about half way down the page there is a list of liquids that alter the temperature. To quote;

 

 http://sarlbryzel.com/index.php?p=1_2_Micro-Flame

 

 Flame Temperature

The flame temperature together with its characteristic can be altered 
by passing the oxygen/hydrogen gas through the gas booster (as 
previously described).  The chart below compares a variety of solutions 
and the effect they have on the flame temperature:

Oxy Hydrogen	3300˚c
Methylated Spirit	2200˚c
M.E.K.	1850˚c
Acetone	1200˚c

Hydrogen has the greatest heat of combustion per unit weight of all common fuels, though obviously it is not exactly the heaviest of fuels! !!

 

I agree that they are very small units and so the maximum amount of heat generated is not great, although the temperature is quite high, but then jewellers don’t need to weld 1/4 plate too often.

 

chriStephens

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Paul,

Having said all I have (which I stand by) it may be worth getting more information and advice from  people who have more specialist skills and knowledge.  There are Welding forums where it may be worth asking the question of those more expert.  You could start here.

 

Best of luck,

 

Terry

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Did some experimenting today with my stick welder, and 1.5mm rod.  The aim , to weld a disc in the end of a tube to make a displacer for a hot air engine, the tube is .75mm thick chrome plated vacuum cleaner extention, the disc same material, flanged 3mm, the disc was put in the tube, and with the amps right down , I sort of dotted around the tube, its not pretty, but it sealed OK, and I think with practice it will improove looks wise, but the bead is fairly large.  Ian S C

[Anders ErikssonParticipant @anderseriksson34700]

There are TIG-type microwelders made for the jewelry industry. They are also used in horology. I believe they could definitely do the job if the parts are not to heat demanding.

They are not as expensive as the laser welding machines but may cost about 3000£.

One link to the manufacturer http://www.lampert.info/web/en and one link to a clockmaker using the technique.

http://www.geoffreywalkerclocks.co.uk/microwelding/microwelding.shtml

I have tried it and butt welding two pieces about 1×1 cm of stainless steel was easy holding the pieces.

Anders

[tua022012 ngoParticipant @tua022012ngo17995]

Hi,

Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.

Tks again and pls keep posting.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I get displacer cylinders, and displacers TIG welded by a professional welder, they are made from stainless tubing .014", and .010" thick, my mate just said, don't get much thinner, I can't drop the amps any more, he did a great job. Ian S C

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by chris stephens on 10/01/2011 00:05:18:

Hi Peter,

Have you got that the right way around? If you go to the manufacturers site and about half way down the page there is a list of liquids that alter the temperature. To quote;

 

http://sarlbryzel.com/index.php?p=1_2_Micro-Flame

 

Flame Temperature

The flame temperature together with its characteristic can be altered
by passing the oxygen/hydrogen gas through the gas booster (as
previously described). The chart below compares a variety of solutions
and the effect they have on the flame temperature:

Oxy Hydrogen	3300˚c
Methylated Spirit	2200˚c
M.E.K.	1850˚c
Acetone	1200˚c

Hydrogen has the greatest heat of combustion per unit weight of all common fuels, though obviously it is not exactly the heaviest of fuels! !!

 

 

 

 

Peter's got right. The flame is cooler but contains a lot more heat. We got one of these things when they took away our towngas/compressed air system. The hydrogen flame was great for welding thermocouples but if we wanted to silver solder anything thicker than fine wire then we used MEK in the booster. Even so, it was only really any use for fine work.

 

Rod

 

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 01/03/2012 12:56:11

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Paul Boscott on 09/01/2011 18:52:11:

Thank you again for all of your contributions

And I will take that as a NO then and put my funds to some other way of doing it

Thank you all for your help

Paul

Paul

Give Merv a ring and go and see what he can do with a tig welder.

The Ripple size can be varied which becomes obvious when you have lots of the same item made in different fab shops. So this may help your scale issue.

I hahe seen 16 gauge but joints that you could hardley see the ripple and others that looked like overlapping sea shells.

Steve Larner

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

This has been a most interesting thread. I've only tried stick welding and the results look like a line of mutilated slugs – although I've managed to weld two vehicles through an MOT!

I did manage to make the air intake casing for this engine out of 1mm steel from an old storage heater, but it needed a fair bit of fettling and filler!

Neil

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I tried welding using a darning needle, some wire and croc clips and a 7AH fire alarm battery.

Some very believeable sparks and a scorch mark across the steel. Burnt away several mm of the needle which got bright orange, then the wires go so hot that I had to stop.

Nei

l

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

I've seen working models of milling machines and lathes. How about a welder?

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Paul, is the part you going to weld, a strength part, or just ornamental, If reasonable strength is needed, just get some 1.5 rods, drop the amps to 40 or so, then tack weld it every 60mm apart, Do the outer edges first, after clamping it together, then 1 or 2 tacks in the middle, If the back is out of sight also put tacks between the ones on the front, Why do it this way,??? its because of distortion of the thinner section, you can then grind/file away the excess, then epoxy or use metal filler (ie cold weld). as said before try a test piece first.

John Holloway

PS my workshop was flooded after the heavy rains we had, down here in OZ.

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