Milling without a milling machine

[andrew lynerParticipant @andrewlyner71257]

I bought a vertical milling slide for my super mini lathe and it has turned out to be much better than I feared. That is a long as I am prepared to take the smallest nibbles and the gentlest feed rates. No real problem as I am not earning money with it. Size of workpiece is a serious limitation, however.

I'm sure that a proper milling machine would be great but the only available used ones are really old and too massive and a new mini milling machine will cost as much as my new lathe setup did. (£600 plus)

Now, bench press drills are cheap as chips on the second hand market and you need drive only a few miles to pick one up, apparently, at the drop of a hat. If I were to buy a reasonable milling table, what would be wrong with bolting it to the base of my drill and just buying a new drill when the bearings start to go wobbly?

Is that a totally daft idea as a way of getting long dovetails and slots in aluminium?

[andrew lynerParticipant @andrewlyner71257]

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Ridigity is everything for milling. Drill presses do not have enough rigidity for milling. I and many others have tried to make it work but it simply doesn't. if you search this site you will find multiple posts about it. If you want to do heavier milling than what you are doing in your lathe, get a mill, find a chum with one, or make your own via the Dave Gingery plans or other plans. I have a friend that built a very serviceable mill from mild steel electric welded together. He used the Gingery books as a guide but made many improvements. It is not as rigid as a similar sized cast iron mill, and does deflect under heavy cuts, but in normal use it works fine. The column is 6" x 8" rectangular mild steel tube 1/2" thick, about 6 feet high.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Drilling machines are much lighter than mills and effective holding of a cutter is difficult. The first problem is that most drills have a morse taper and no drawbar to retain it or a milling chuck. A milling cutter generates substantial side loads and these will pull the taper out or the cutter if a Jacobs type chuck is used. Just spinning the cutter is not enough as the machine must resist side loads that release unsecured tapers and axial forces that will move the cutter and possibly break it. Many have tried this and it usually get abandoned, if you are lucky before you try it and probably after it all ends in a wrecked job and broken bits.

Mike

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Is that a totally daft idea

I'm afraid you have some serious competition on daft milling ideas in here

Drilling machines tend to lack longitudinal stiffness support, but if you're gentle… well maybe

For myself, serious attempt one was not too bad but a decent envelope is a major problem, quite frustrating really

The other issue is the centreline on the slide moves as you move the cross slide across the tool, so the loading changes across the face of the milling slide, introducing more potential errors. A decent milling side was up to 100 quid plus last time I looked so I've gone for one of these for two hundred quid delivered

I only just got it a couple of days ago and it will take a while to sort out then test out

If I fails I've still got a fabby drilling and co-ordinates table

Getting a decent alternative to a proper mill has been an eternal problem for ME people

A proper unit is usually 500 to 3000 quid and weighs up to 3 tons, plus you have transport and space-for-it issues to contend with

So don't worry about looking daft and give it a go while they're all looking in my direction

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

You will soon knock the bearings out milling on a pillar drill, a milling machine is intended to take both side & end loads.

[andrew lynerParticipant @andrewlyner71257]

@Ady1: Attempt 1 is really impressive. As a total rookie welder, I can appreciate the welding in your list of pictures of the project. Your final solution looks like a good one. I can see several tables at around the £200 mark. Problem with using the lathe for turning plus milling is that it takes an age to swap over.

I shall just have to keep an eye on Gumtree. Shame about local paper classifieds and Friday Ad, eBay is fine but there are so few real bargains these days.

Having said that, I got a good deal on a Sealey Wig welder a few weeks ago. "Attempt 1", here I come!!!

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Drilling machines are for drilling holes

Milling machines are for cutting slots [along with other things ]

Simple as that !

The short answer would have to be—–not really a good idea.

[AlanWParticipant @alanw96569]

Andrew,

I adapted an old Pollard bench drill for milling. This involved a lot of work including: changing the bearings to tapered rollers, designing and building a fine down feed with clutch, quill lock, making a collet chuck, raising the column to regain the headroom lost to the x-y table, and, of course, the expense of buying the x-y table. Since then, I have built a new belt drive system to give more speed choices and considered making a new spindle in order to reduce the bottom bearing to cutter distance.

Although the Pollard is hefty for its size, it is still not rigid enough for meaningful metal removal as a milling machine. Plastic is easy but anything else is frustratingly slow. Take the advice of someone who regrets wasting a lot of time tail-chasing. Forget it and buy Chinese. You could be making things that you want to make instead of flogging a dead horse.

Alan W

Edited By AlanW on 07/01/2019 15:23:54

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Milling is series of interrupted cuts, so the machine needs to be rigid. A drill press, is not.

The helix on milling cutters, such as End Mills, means that they will try to screw themselves out of the holder, (and sometimes succeed!)

personally, I doubt if a cross table will really be rigid enough, either, so you could well have a lack of rigidity in the machine head and the table. Has to be a recipe for disaster.

My Mill/Drill is barely rigid enough unless I stick to fairly light cuts.

It may be costly, but use the right tool for the job.

Howard

[DuncParticipant @dunc]

While I do not advocate using any of the following – singly or collectively – and I have not tried them myself here are a few reference/assorted notes. Unless a source is stated I have no additional information regarding sources.

Look at Popular Mechanics July 1954 & Jan 1969: also, Pop Science Jan 1952 (Google online for the link). These often describe building an adapter to provide additional lateral cutter support.

MEW Jan/Feb1996, Issue #33

End mills are hard; they are harder than the jaws on a drill chuck, so the jaws will not grip them the way they grip the soft drill shanks. This means the axial retention force for an end mill is poor, it will suck out due to the helix angle on the end mill. Drill chucks only support the tool at three points around its periphery. This allows the tool to move sideways to some degree – a lack of rigidity.

If doing this purchase the largest Jacobs ball bearing superchuck that would fit the machine. When installing it I would aggressively clean the taper socket and the arbor with clean solvent, and heat the socket and cool the taper before installing.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Andrew

Not too long ago I considered getting a table and using my bench drill for milling but as you are seeing now a number of guys here told me not to go there as it doesnt work.

I also know too well the frustration of a tight budget, I was saving for a new mill and wasnt quite there but I was fortunate in that a forum member offered me his SX2P mill as he was upgrading to a larger machine.

You mention £200 for a table, I dont know your budget that is your business but ARC with their current price reductions offer the SX1L mill for £387 including VAT, I think that is around £100 less than the normal price. I dont know a lot about the machine but have heard reasonable reports of it for a small machine. It has a 400 x 145 table and almost the same spindle to table distance as I have on the SX2P. The motor is a brushed 150 watt (output) and it has a high and low gear box and I read that the torque in the low range is quite decent. I dont know what type of work you would be doing but if as you mention long slots and dovetails one would think it would cope with those, it may mean shallow cuts but that would be true of any small machine.

I dont have any connection with ARC but it is a mill and could be worth considering if your budget could run to it.

Ron

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Most dovetail cutters are more than 1/2" shaft so you need to work back from the dovetail size that you need to produce, which sizes the cutter, which in turn sizes the chuck / collet to hold it. You could be looking at a MT2 taper to hold the cutter. Collets/chuck not retained by a drawbar have been known to come loose with interesting results

[andrew lynerParticipant @andrewlyner71257]

Ron
It would be an entry into the milling world. Of course, the 'next size up' is more attractive. But that's the way in all things.

Things will have to get worse and I will need some more money before I actually commit to any expense in this direction. But the thread has been useful (as ever on this site). Thanks for all the opinions chaps.

Andrew

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Starting to get reasonable results from my setup, will do a writeup in due course

Thought I should mention some nice + cheap MT1 collets that I got from chester machine tools

Got the 6mm to test in my setup and ended up buying a set of 5

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

I think the above comment about the Meddings conversion says it all really . The old meddings is built like a tank compared to a hobby pillar drill. For very small jobs a milling slide on your lathe will do the trick but only if you appreciate its limitations.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, years ago I made a milling head and fitted it to the base of a cross vice. Basically it was made from a motor off a worn out Black & Decker electric lawn mower and a two speed gearbox from a burnt out B/D electric pistol drill, the motor's single speed gearbox was exchanged with the two speed one and a block was made from a piece of 2" square BMS and a worn pump shaft, which had a 19mm collet on the driving end that a motor was fitted too. Some machine had to be done of course, but a taper roller bearing was fitted into the output end of the block with a ball bearing at the top and the pump shaft was fitted with a screw end matching the screw in the drill gearbox, which is shown assembled below.

A new sliding piece was made to fit the base of the cross slide and the milling head was attached to it.

A nut was made with an integral pin from a piece square 1" BMS with a 16mm cross thread, which fits into the big hole in the slide above and a screw was made from a piece of threaded rod and extended with a piece of 12mm round BMS and connecting bush. an old bath tap handle was used as a turn handle for adjustment of the slide and the whole assembly is shown below.

A few more photos a be seen in DIY Milling Head

It actually worked very well, but I did need to make a dedicated holder for those throw away type end/slot mills. If you found a good ole robust drilling machine for a song, maybe you could adapt something similar to fit onto, or replace its head. I actually used this to true up the portion of my round column Chester Champion milling machine, where the column is attached too, by bolting my it to an angle plate and hanging over the back of the table and then using X and Y to machine the portion afore mentioned and it made getting the column easier to true up to the table.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 13/03/2020 15:24:20

[Rufus RoughcutParticipant @rufusroughcut]

Hi Andrew

I have the lathe vertical slide and found as you the size limitation an issue so went for a small Warco mill which is not unlike the Siege proposed by Ron L, yes it was £100s of pounds but I've made my money back by it's repair cost and new tooling cost saving use over the years, they also make for very accurate dill press and if your not in great hurry to make an item, lots of small cuts is the same as a few big cuts which if something goes wrong its a small problem not a big one.

Try a friends and judge for your self which best suits your needs.

It's worth noting I've also made some large items for repairing equipment at work on both ML10 and Warco mill as others have said rigidity of tooling and work piece are the key.

Barry

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well I finally set things up right and had a go at it and it's brill

I've been looking at various stuff because I have a budget available but it's all 100kg 200kg 300kg gear and I really don't want any more steel monsters to deal with so I got on with the final parts for a basic milling in the lathe setup

The cross slide and carriage are basically a moveable knee while the head is fixed, keep them nipped up and keep an eye on them

The support was 50quid of 10mm plate I cut up and welded and the table was 200 from ebay

Another 30 for nose collets to 8mm which are essential for decent work (from previous experience)

It just buzzes back and forwards through the work, I use a cordless drill as a slow power feed on the handle nut

60kg for the lathe and 45kg for the milling setup, max cutter 8mm but I prefer 6mm because you can zip along

will try to carve a vice out of a solid block after xmas, got family stuff for the xmas period to do

Have a jolly time peeps

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I shall add my warning to all the others, about trying to convert a drill for milling. It doesn't work! However I have seen one exception that does.

Fobco made excellent drilling machines, I have one and they are good. One version of the Fobco was sold as a mill/ drill with an x-y table, instead of the usual drilling table. They are pretty rare, but I know of one and it does a passable imitation of a milling machine. (better than some of the round column lightweight mills that are sold today)

If you can find one, buy it, otherwise steer well clear of pillar drills for milling!

Andrew.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

When I bought my Warco 7 X 12 lathe, it included the accessory vertical milling attachment. As it attaches to the cross slide using the compound fitting, it has some limitations. It is offset from the centre line, as you would expect from a lathe compound, but this limits the movement to mostly on the operators side of the machine. I have only used it once and have not bothered to look at possible modifications to centralise it.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well I managed to get a bit done between the hoovering and cleaning for the in-laws

cuts for the top

milled out the slot

stuck in the bandsaw

main body out

fancy slot bit, the 4mm was weird and broke but at a tenner for 10 I can't complain

went 6/7mm to 5mm on the slot

A 4mm hex can fit in… most of the way but there's some teeny high spots

All in all I'm very chuffed so far

Downside is I now need an endless supply of 6mm cutters a weekly bucket collection for the mountain of swarf these things can make and a motor that never wears out

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Ady1, you should try the packs of 5 off 6mm solid carbide two flute endmills from the auction site at less than £3 a cutter.They are very good and will last longer than your ones. Just remember that they are brittle and should not be touched down on the workpiece unless they are running. At their price, you will not cry so long if you break one.

Edited By old mart on 24/12/2020 21:25:42

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

cheers for that, will give a pack a go

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