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  • #45626
    Ray Spreadbury
    Participant
      @rayspreadbury58704
      I have recently got a Myford Super 7 & I have ordered a small mill (from Warco). I’m not sure what tools to buy at the same time but I’m currently also attending an adult education weekly course at the local college – Engineering Workshop Practice which is great.
       
      Anyway I am considering getting the following for use in/on the mill:-
      – a set of ER25 collet & chuck set
      – a set of end mills
      – a set of slot mills
      – a milling vice
      – a clamping kit
      – an angle plate
      – a set of parallels
      – a boring head & boring bars
      – slitting saw arbor & 2 or 3 slitting saws
      – a tap & die set (metric)
      – some drills including drills for the taps above
      – a wobbler set
       
      Have I forgotten anything, is it overkill? I was thinking of getting most of these bits from Chronos or Warko but is there any advice please?
      Cheers
      Ray
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      #4858
      Ray Spreadbury
      Participant
        @rayspreadbury58704

        New Workshop Set Up

        #45627
        Ian S C
        Participant
          @iansc

          Here in NZ I would expect to get a milling vice and a clamping kit with the mill.As for taps,end mills and slot drills buy them as you need them,no use having stuff you don’t need.Parallels,I use inner and outer race from ball races.Made my own angle plate,fly cutters,saw arbours,exta collets for the collet chuck.Get a set of drills,also tapping size if they are not in the set you get.You may find imperial drills handy if you pick some up at car boot sale or similar,the thing is to keep ones eyes open,you’ll be suprised what and where you find things.IAN S C

          #45628
          David Clark 13
          Participant
            @davidclark13
            Hi There
            Looks reasonably balanced.
            I would buy the Tee nuts, nuts and washers and clamps from J&L.
            The cheap sets leave a lot to be desired.
            Then use standard lengths of mild steel studding.
            Don’t forget Arc Euro Trade, good quality and good prices.
            regards David
             
            #45632
            chris stephens
            Participant
              @chrisstephens63393

              Hi David,

              While I agree that J&L are on the whole good suppliers of kit,  they do seem to sell the same oriental tat, in their value range, as some of the others, but at a higher price. In a catalogue you just can’t tell how good or bad something is, and price alone is no longer a good guide. J&L do sell good stuff but at a cost, but then as the old saying goes “the quality is remembered long after the price is forgot” but Oh, what a cost!
              chriStephens
              #45634
              Circlip
              Participant
                @circlip
                Expecting WW3 Ray?? If you’re going to a training establishment I can see quite a few bits on your list that you could make. You would also gain both machining experience and a sense of acheivement??
                 
                  Regards  Ian.
                #45635
                Ray Spreadbury
                Participant
                  @rayspreadbury58704
                  Posted by Circlip on 27/11/2009 12:29:34:

                  Expecting WW3 Ray?? If you’re going to a training establishment I can see quite a few bits on your list that you could make. You would also gain both machining experience and a sense of acheivement??
                   
                    Regards  Ian.
                   Hi Ian
                  Firstly thanks to all who have replied.
                  I think the idea of old ball races for parallels is a great idea and I will go that route initially then maybe see if I can machine/grind some at the college.
                  Re the Angle plates I have looked at buying castings and machining them but as far as I can see it works out more expensive, so does anyone know of a supplier of cheap angle plate castings?
                  Clamp sets, yes I can collect/make my own. Who are J&L by the way?
                  Re WW3 Ian, no it’s not imminent and that’s why I asked if what I was considering was “overkill” but I think you’re right, I’ll just buy in dribs & drabs ie. what I need for each project I start.
                  The thing is I’m going to the Sandown Exhibition  and I wanted to identify any things which I need and which may(?) be on special offer there.
                   
                  Cheers
                  Ray
                  #45636
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb
                    I’d add a dial test indicator and magnetic stand. You will need that to set the vice true to the table and also to set up work that is clamped to it.
                     
                    I’ve not had a problem with the clamping sets, if you are loading them to such an extent that they fail you will be risking your mill table.
                     
                    I’ opt for an electronic edge finder rather than wobbler, the one greenwood tools do will fit a 1/2″ chuck or collet
                     
                    You will also want a drill chuck as its easier when using the machine for drilling.
                     
                    Jason
                    #45638
                    Circlip
                    Participant
                      @circlip
                      If you look around for some “Bits” of  Roofing girders (Industrial) with a bit of lateral thinking AND cutting the basis of angle plates spring out. Heavy wall thickness black steel angles also make smaller angle plates after a bit of machining and grinding. Strange how some see a steam engine in blocks of Brass, Gunmetal and Aluminininium, but have a temporary blindness when it comes down to basic tooling??
                       
                        Must be the grazed knees and blowin yerself up with bangers era that nurtured this.
                       
                         Regards  Ian
                      #45639
                      Versaboss
                      Participant
                        @versaboss

                        let me add my 2cts here.

                        – Parallels: while ball race rings are ok for using on the table, I think in a vice you need (a few) pairs of rectangular bars, of different heights (less than the vice’s jaws) and 2 – 6 mm thick. In most cases even mild steel pieces are good enough (measure them!)

                        – Boring head: beware of the ubiquitous ‘2″ Boring Head’ with Morse 2 shank. The one I bought some years ago is totally unusable. Make the G. Thomas head, it’s a 100 times better!

                        Good luck, Hansrudolf (the Versaboss)

                        #45645
                        Geoff Theasby
                        Participant
                          @geofftheasby
                          Circlip,
                          I agree about the angle iron.
                          I cut some short lengths of this, and ground them flat and square with a cup wheel from a local supplier.   I drill holes where needed, then discard them when they get too lace-like.
                           
                          I am also getting fed up with the milling attachment on my Unimat 3, in that the motor keeps fouling the clamp studding.   I have to get quite ingenious in the placing of items being milled, either that or cut down the studding.
                           
                          Regards
                          Geoff
                          #45647
                          Peter Gain
                          Participant
                            @petergain89847
                            Purchase Harold Hall’s “Milling, A Complete Course”, Workshop Practice No. 35. There-in is much useful information & advice on making simple milling aids. The making of these will provide a basic knowledge of the mill & it’s use & prove to be a good foundation.
                            As to turning tools, you have purchased a Myford, why spoil it’s potential by purchasing Far Eastern tooling? Always ask the supplier of items such as drills, tool steel, milling cutters etc. for the country of origin. Far Eastern mills (& presumably lathes) can be worked on to make them surprisingly accurate but their idea of cutting edges is dire.
                            Peter Gain.
                            #45648
                            chris stephens
                            Participant
                              @chrisstephens63393

                              Hi Jason B

                              I like electronic edge finders and have had three of them. The first one I bought from a clock fair in a not working condition, so I made new internals, this is the one mentioned in the article on making one. I lost this one from my pocket whilst riding my bike. Number two needed new batteries, and whilst trying to get the old ones out, the internals fell on the floor never to be seen again, ever. Number three came from Warco and was one of their light and sound ones, got it home and it did not work. So back it went and the replacement did not work either, then I found that the diagram showing the battery fitment was wrong, put the batteries in back to front and it worked. Yes, I did phone Warco so they could check out the problem.
                              I keep some SPI audible wobblers  as back-ups, as they have no electronic the fail.
                              Hi Cirlip,
                               One of us must be mellowing, that’s at least three times we have the same views. Keep up the good work, Lad.
                              chriStephens
                              #45653
                              mgj
                              Participant
                                @mgj
                                Well I feel much the same as circlip too.
                                 
                                Once you have a vice , it only takes an ordinary bolt and a file to get it held down – at which point you can  make tee bolt heads by the mile.
                                 
                                A length of your chosen metric studding, some hexagon for coupling nuts, and some bars with holes drilled in them (later to have slots added) and you have a hold down kit for pennies.
                                 
                                You need a decent setsquare – one that will go right across your milling table, for setting most things square.
                                 
                                Angle plates – the other route is to buy the rough castings and machine them. Hermingway do them I think.
                                 
                                Cutters depends on what size you are playing with. I do all my facing and profiling with 2 endmills. (You don’t need a set of endmills)  A 2″ tipped cutter, or a 16mm tipped cutter. Slotting I use FC3 throwawys in a holder T built myself. They double as slot and end mills in hte small sizes
                                 
                                A slitting saw arbor you make – buy a couple or 3 2MT soft blanks. the driving peg you add makes htem much more efficient.
                                 
                                Parallels you make mostly, until you can afford a good set of your own.
                                 
                                I must say I like steam edgefinders and wobblers. Even more since I got a DRO. I have a laser edge finder that is very quick and easy, but its not as accurate as an ordinary over centre edge finder.
                                 
                                Boring head. In theory very nice. How often do you actually use one.
                                 
                                I used one once on the lathe before I had a mill to do the cylingers of a Stuart Launch.
                                It can be used for offestting tapers without moving the tailstock – good idea but I built a taper turning attachment.(not used much but a life saver when you do want one)
                                 
                                I used it once to bore the smokebox of the TE, and for the remainder of the 20 years I have had it, its gathered dust.
                                 
                                A boring head is one of those things that waits for a job that needs one.- unless you like a VERY EXPENSIVE flycutting head.
                                 
                                You MUST have some sort of dividing gear. (Unless you have a DRO for your mill )If you have a Myford, you build a GHT VDH dividing head.Of course it can be done by stepping out with dividers, but to make a cylinder cover and cylinder with studs to match, without a DH is painful. Or any kind of slotting on shafts which have been turned and are left in a chuck, or to make your own boring bars etc etc. Start with the simple kit, and add the goodies later, but you will need as an essential, a dividing head, and a set of raising blocks  with a built in aligning tenon if you are going to make a steam engine on a mill. Hemingway again, – but I think I got my castings from Reeves many years ago, so they may still do them.
                                 
                                 
                                #45659
                                Ray Spreadbury
                                Participant
                                  @rayspreadbury58704
                                  OK Guys thanks for all your replies and I get the message!
                                   
                                  1. As per “Milling A Complete Course No 35” (which I have) I will be making my own T nuts, clamps & parallel bars
                                   
                                  2. I will also collect some old ball races as supplementary parallels and look out for some structural steel angles to make my own angle plates
                                   
                                  3. I will only buy milling cutters as I need them (only 1 or 2 anyway) and they will be of quality European/N American manufacture
                                   
                                  4. I will only get the odd taps & dies, again as I need them and be of best quality only
                                   
                                  5. I will buy a dial indicator & stand, an engineers square, a set of drills and a Wobbler or two
                                   
                                  6. From Hemingway I will buy a couple of G H Thomas kits next year eg. The Small Precision Boring Head & The Versalile Dividing Head
                                   
                                  As Circlip remarked above, this way I will save some money, gain some experience and get a sense of achievement.
                                   
                                  One question, any recomendations for UK suppliers of “quality” tapd, dies, drills etc?
                                   
                                  Thanks everybody
                                  Regards
                                  Ray
                                  #45660
                                  Peter Gain
                                  Participant
                                    @petergain89847
                                    For good quality taps etc. try Folkestone Engineering &/or Millhill Supplies. They both sell UK/EU/USA made products. Both are easily found on the web. Folkestone currently advertise in ME. I have found both to be reliable.
                                    Peter Gain.
                                    #45668
                                    mgj
                                    Participant
                                      @mgj

                                      Oh Ray – if you disembowel old ball races, they are useful as parallels, or just as mounts to allow you to drill or cut through a bit of work without savaging the milling table.

                                      #45671
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb
                                        Have a look at J&L for cutting tools, they do a large range of Dormer drills, taps, mills etc will also have a moore & wright tri-square (not set square)
                                         
                                        Their Hertel disposable milling cutters are also good value, especially iof you wait for a pro-mo, I just stocked up as they had 35% off.
                                         
                                        Its a bit hard to search the site but if you click the virtual catalogue thats easy to flick through, also worth ordering the paper catalogue which is about 2″ thick.
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        And talking of ball race shells, there was an interesting bit in MEB, the guy used what looked about a 9″ dia shell when tramming his mill, it allows a DTI to be revolved buy hand without it dipping into the tee slots
                                         
                                        Jason

                                        Edited By JasonB on 28/11/2009 07:29:30

                                        #45675
                                        Ian S C
                                        Participant
                                          @iansc

                                          Ray,my angle plate is a 6″(150mm)length of 3″(75mm)x 3/8″(10mm) angle iron,at each end I welded a piece of 1/2″(13mm) steel to brace the angle.I then machined it square.I’v never yet needed a boring head.I got a horizontal/vertical rotary table,The 6″ one fitted my mill just right,got the dividing plates and tail stock.IAN S C psI’v got the outer race of a 6″ bearing,handy for setting up the mill and drill press.

                                          #45676
                                          Circlip
                                          Participant
                                            @circlip
                                            One of the problems most who are trying to equip a toyshop with tooling is not having a SERIOUS look at what you will actually USE. Many have asked the same question Ray so you’re not unique and despite all the replies, at the end of the day YOU will make your own choice and sod everyone else. On an amusing note, on another forum, despite being advised NOT to buy a Rotary Table (Rotab – Americanism UGH) he did and after two YEARS used the thing for the first time on a project.
                                             
                                              Ever been told to buy a four jaw chuck in preference to a three jaw??? (Assuming you have to specify one or the other) Most of us have and realised later we SHOULD have listened.
                                             
                                              To help find a few projects to equip your shop and give you a head start on night/day school :-
                                             
                                             
                                             
                                             
                                             
                                              The first link will see destructions for lots of things you may  have thought you needed to BUY but given that wherever you are being trained will have machinery bigger the you are likely to have in your own workshop, plan HEAVY machining and grinding jobs to gain maximum usage. You will be able to shift BIG lumps of metal on their machinery without straining the machines.
                                             
                                              Regards  Ian
                                             
                                             
                                            #45680
                                            Allen Paddock
                                            Participant
                                              @allenpaddock42703
                                              I found those 4 websites very interesting,and has given me a few ideas thanks .
                                              #45682
                                              mgj
                                              Participant
                                                @mgj
                                                Jason – are Hertel the same as FC3s.
                                                 
                                                I believe FC3 is a standard, because I have cutters made by all sorts of people.
                                                #45708
                                                JasonB
                                                Moderator
                                                  @jasonb
                                                  Hertel is the maker, not the type. and yes as far as I can tell they are FC3s
                                                   
                                                  If you want some very reasonably priced milling cutters try these can’t beat them for general work or use on castings to save risking the Dormers on a hard spot.
                                                   
                                                  Jason
                                                  #45714
                                                  John Haine
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnhaine32865
                                                    Two thoughts.
                                                     
                                                    I have 4 outer races of taper roller bearings which make useful parallels – but before you use anything similar run the face over an oilstone or diamond lap a few strokes.  Mine turned out to have a slight burr round the edge which marked the mill table when it was clamped down!
                                                     
                                                    On the whole I use an angle plate and a selection of toolmaker’s and g-clamps for milling much more than my machine vice.  The plate was a quid or so from a market stall, it’s ground on all faces, and has a fence screwed to one of the vertical edges.  Easy to align to the table with a square, great for milling edges of plate and so-on, the fence will align an edge vertical.  I have only once had a workpiece move and that was when I was being silly anyway.
                                                     
                                                    John.
                                                    #45718
                                                    KWIL
                                                    Participant
                                                      @kwil

                                                      Decide when you are starting out and at some times along the way, just what you want to make, that will determine the size of desireable machinery. Once away from the training area mentioned by others you will be on your own. I had to add a raising ring to my Bridgeport so I guess things must be getting bigger!

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