Milling on a mini lathe

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

Apologies if this is a bit of a daft question but I’ve looked and can’t really find a comprehensive guide on what items I need to do this-or is it just not worth it?

im after real experiences of doing this,I’m aware there’s limitations but need to be able to achieve some sort of milling attachment.So I’d like to know what I need to buy to be able to do it on my warco super mini lathe.All attachments and tools needed.

any help or advice is always appreciated.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Milling in the lathe is feasible but very limited.

Really, you need a vertical slide with suitable vice or clamps though it's possible to do some limited milling operations without. The primary requirement is the saddle having Tee-slots, otherwise you've no way to mount a vertical-slide or directly-clamped work.

The smaller the lathe the more limited it is too, not least because the machine's rigidity diminishes with the size reduction. It is fine for turning within its capacity but not really built to be used as a milling-machine, so such work is something of a compromise. Nevertheless a lot of fine models have been made using the lathe as a mill, with the part held on a vertical slide and the cutter in the chuck or (better) a collet. You need take it very steadily with gentle cuts.

One operation to which a lathe with slotted cross-slide or boring-table is very amenable, is boring between centres, and to a lesser extent, the associated facing. For this the work is clamped to the slide, with suitable packing to raise it to the correct height. Used with the fine feed, this is the best way to bore cylinders accurately. (The industrial horizontal borer is much the same thing beefed up, in principle.)

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For a guide, I don't think you will find a book dedicated to "Milling InThe Lathe". However, a lot of information on this has been published over the years in model-engineering text-books. You may need look back a bit to older books, e.g. published in the 1950s-70, as using the lathe as a mill has been supplanted to a large extent by … the milling-machine! Also buy an introductory book on milling, for information on cutter types, speeds and feeds, general principles, etc.

For accessories, since you name the Warco lathe, try examining their catalogue.

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

Many thanks for taking the time to write that,it’s really appreciated.

My plan is to eventually get a milling machine,but for now whilst it’s the wrong side of Xmas I thought if I could just get by.However if I’m into spending hundreds just to get the lathe to do the work,I may aswell just put that to a used mill.I’m just starting out so just about to start a wobbler engine or similar to begin and pickup the basics.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I mildly disagree with the above post. Lots of very good pieces have been made just using a lathe. Milling machines were either rather too expensive or not really available as one looks back to the middle of the last century snd earlier that (respectively) – but most lathes were of myford size or larger.

The limitations are as above – rigidity, space, power.

Machining very steadily is required for best results. I suspect many items were machined on a faceplate, or mounted on the cross slide, rather than in a vertical slide , back then.

Edited By not done it yet on 19/09/2023 22:37:51

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 19/09/2023 21:44:03:

For a guide, I don't think you will find a book dedicated to "Milling InThe Lathe"…

Well, actually: Milling Operations in the Lathe

Rod

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/09/2023 22:35:29:

I mildly disagree with the above post. Lots of very good pieces have been made just using a lathe. Milling machines were either rather too expensive or not really available as one looks back to the middle of the last century snd earlier that (respectively) – but most lathes were of myford size or larger.

The limitations are as above – rigidity, space, power.

Machining very steadily is required for best results. I suspect many items were machined on a faceplate, or mounted on the cross slide, rather than in a vertical slide , back then.

Edited By not done it yet on 19/09/2023 22:37:51

Thanks,I’m not churning bits out on piece work so I can take it steady,if it can be done.As I say it will only be very basic sort of things for now til I get sorted.

[Andy ChancerParticipant @andychancer17241]

Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 19/09/2023 22:50:17:

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 19/09/2023 21:44:03:

For a guide, I don't think you will find a book dedicated to "Milling InThe Lathe"…

Well, actually: Milling Operations in the Lathe

Rod

Thank you,I have found one for the price of a pint on eBay,it should be with me by weekend

[Roger BParticipant @rogerb61624]

Milling on a mini lathe is quite feasible. Basic requirements are a vertical slide, some clamps to hold things to it (gravity is not your friend here when trying to set things up), some collets to hold the milling cutters and some milling cutters. Here are a few pictures of set ups I have used when I was starting out:

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although NDIY says much good work has been done with just a lathe it does depend on the particular lathe. A Myford particularly with a long cross slide that has a good range of tee slots makes fitting work directly to the cross slide or mounting a vertical slide rigidly quiet easy. and is what you will find in the older books. Myford also has a gap allowing a larger faceplate to be swung so more work can be turned than milled.

The average 7 x * Mini-lathe does not have a slotted cross slide so you will either need to make one (as Editor Neil did) or be limited to milling only small parts that can be held in a vertical slide. Even then some of the mini-lathe slides are anything but rigid so you will be very limited in the amount of metal that can be removed. This for example is quite a poor option, this a bit better

Then there is also the question of how best to put on a cut, a myford with a handwheel on the end of it's leadscrew makes it fairly easy to advance the tool using the handwheel graduations, Mini-lathe you would need to set up a plunger dial gauge and make do with the front carriage wheel to advance the work.

Add to the cost of the vertical slide and a Dial gauge a small vice to fit the vertical slide, a means to hold milling cutters be that a range of MT finger collets, sidelock holders or an ER type chuck and you soon start to get to a point where waiting a while until a stand alone small mill is not going to cost a whole lot more.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, L. H. Sparey has a chapter in his book, The Amateur's Lathe, covering milling, shaping and grinding in the lathe. It's in chapter 13, so might be unlucky for some. Milling in the lathe has its limitations, but it can be done, I did a little bit on my father's old RandA lathe, RandA lathe which is nowhere near as good as the mini lathes that are available now.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/09/2023 07:36:42

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I note that the above discussion concentrates on the traditional method of holding the cutter in the headstock. There is of course the option of adding a milling head to the lathe. This is an example:
https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637200350/drill-head-for-mini-lathe-sm2503a
Problem is they are 2/3rds the cost of a mill so mostly useful where space is at a premium.
A DIY milling head is a possiblity particuarly if you are happy with small cutters and a high speed spindle of the type sold for CNC machines.

Robert.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I've found a photo of a piece of cast iron that I milled in my father's old lathe, using a 3" cross vice and a home made fly-cutter. The cross vice had to be mounted on a fabricated plate, which was attached to an angle plate. It was a bit of a "Heath Robinson" idea, but it worked, and got the job done.

Regards Nick.

[Andy_GParticipant @andy_g]

I think the Warco super mini lathe follows the ubiquitous 7X pattern, and therefore has a relatively short travel cross slide without T slots.

In order to fit a vertical slide it will be necessary to drill and tap some extra holes in it, either to fit a vertical slide bracket directly or to fit a 'boring table' that can then be drilled to suit whatever slide fittings are necessary.

This was my arrangement:

The boring table is secured using the top slide securing bolts / dowel at the front and an extra couple of tapped holes and a dowel at the rear

The fasteners can be accessed with the vertical slide in place so the whole boring table can be removed without disturbing its alignment.

FWIW, these are the dimensions of my plate – it was made from a laser cut piece of 12mm thick steel sheet with the surfaces 'as is': (I wouldn't bother with the 3/8 dowel holes again)

I sais that this *was* my arrangement: I have since done away with the adjustable angle bracket to try and make the arrangement more compact and rigid (relative term!). A carriage lock is a must!

Although limited, it has its uses:

The cutters are held directly in the spindle using morse taper 'finger' collets and a home made draw bar (suitably long bolt with a simple collar to bear on the rear of the spindle).

I also made a handwheel for the leadscrew to give a 'Z' feed:

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

When I first started out, not having much idea I made the mistake of buying various tools, arbors collets, vert slide etc to fit my lathe so I could mill. Although I managed to successfully do what I wanted at the time, it soon became clear that this setup was very limited and I invested in a small mill. Much, much better. So all I am saying is don't rush in headfirst, note what other have advised here, carefully assess what sort of work you are likely to be doing and get a realistic picture of your needs

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hey Andy!

By chance I'm in an almost identical situation to you, except for the fact that I just don't have the space (or money) to buy a mill at the moment. I also have the warco super mini lathe and have been looking at the milling slide. RDG tools have a milling slide that claims to fit the Warco or similar lathes but when I emailed them for some more pictures on how it's attached I got a rather vague response about a bracket that they no longer have, therefore I was looking at the warco one specifically just to ensure it was an easy fit.

I'm also working on the wobbler, I got my plans from blondihacks patreon drive. It's been a very good project that has forced me to learn some things that are probably obvious to the experienced.

I was considering putting the vert milling slide on my christmas list so I'd be really interested to hear about your experiences if you decide to go ahead with one.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Where space is a problem then the milling attachment is an option, there were several makes. The one I have used is the Amolco, this is self powered and is bolted to the lathe bed over the cross slide giving vertical movement. Myford made a milling table that could be bolted to the cross slide to give T slots. As for books on milling in the lathe There is the workshop series No5 by tubal cain though there is a much earlier book by Percival Marshall, No 41, in the Model Engineer series, Milling in Small Lathes. This work was published when Model Engineer & Electrician was the title and cost 4d. Noel..

Edited By noel shelley on 20/09/2023 15:56:52

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Further to Rod’s excellent book recommendation … May I also recommend the earlier book.

”Milling in the Lathe” as referenced here:

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=119091

The content of the two books inevitably overlaps but, I seem to recall that the earlier one includes more ‘variations on the theme’

MichaelG.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

There is another aspect to milling in the lathe I don't think has been mentioned, and that is using the milling attachment on the cross-slide. I think the original is called a "Potts milling spindle".

Combined with suitable lathe-spindle dividing, this allows readily forming radial features like holes, flats and slots in the periphery and face of a turned component, without removing the work from the lathe.

Ideally the milling spindle would be built to be set easily with the cutter truly axial to the lathe spindle as the "0" position, e.g.using part of the bed as a dead-stop for setting, and to be rotated at any angle from horizontal to vertical.

If vertical on the axial plane it will also allow key-way and spline cutting, and thread-milling.

A further refinement is a simple worm and wheel attachment to the spindle, for milling arcs.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

I'd very much agree about the Workshop Practice book Milling in a Lathe. There's also a few jobs where a lathe milling attachment can be a bit easier to work with and sometimes even more accurate than a vertical mill. Boring between centers, or cutting a longer rack gear would be just two of them. At that point your using the lathe much like a rudimentary horizontal mill. While the head on my mill can be rotated to a horizontal position, the set up and alignment would take longer both before and after the jobs done, and it still can't use those between centers boring bars. For larger or longer through holes, I'd much prefer boring between centers over single point boring on the lathe or mill simply because of tool rigidity and accurate bores with no taper. There's a few maybe less required jobs such as drilling and tapping on the ends of shafts that are longer and larger than the spindle or overall length the lathe can take where those milling attachments are also worth having. You still need to block up and at least support the far end of a longer shaft, but it does work.

Yes in most cases any vertical mill might be more rigid, but a milling attachment still has those uses. I also have my lathe set up so it can use most of the same tooling my R8 taper mill uses with just a ER collet chuck or tool shank change. So even shorter reverse turning with a boring or B & F head can be done on those shaft ends. I'd also say that lathe head stocks are much more rigid for accurate tool holding than any comparable sized vertical mill would be. It's the work holding that isn't, so those lighter cuts are mandatory. Bolting work pieces or almost any use of a face plate is seldom mentioned or even shown on Youtube. I think it's an underutilized method, and while it can be slow to set up, quite versatile.

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Hey Andy, not sure if you’ll check but I recently too the plunge and bought the milling slide for my warco super mini lathe. Got it all set up this weekend (although yet to actually mill anything). I mainly bought it for drilling because my cheap pillar drill was simply not rigid enough even for brass.

For drilling I also bought a mt3 b16 arbour to fit the drill chuck I use in my tailstock. However swapping these arbours out is a bit of a pain and adds another tool changing operation between turning and milling so if budget allows, in hindsight I wished I’d just bought another drill chuck.

The major issue I see so far is the lack of y travel(?) Not sure if that’s the correct designation for that direction but it’s the one that goes towards and away from you. Because it attaches where the compound slide is mounted, moving over to centre the slide on the spindle means the cross slide is very far extended and is a mere inch or less from the rear chip guard. You could remove the guard for a little extra room but you’ll very soon exceed the leadscrew/dovetail length and rigidity at this much extension might not be great. I think this could be resolved by a fixture plate, a future exercise I’m sure.

As far as mounting milling cutters, I’ve seen them mounted in 3 jaw chucks on YouTube but I’m curious if this is the best way. Still more to learn!

Overall, I’ll say it’s been a good investment and dramatically improved the versatility of my lathe. I am extremely limited on space so this is pretty much the only solution for me. As I said I’ve only used it for drilling, but using my dial indicator on the carriage I’ve managed to achieve precision depth holes unlike anything I could have hoped for on my pillar drill. It gets a strong recommend from me, I’ll update again when I work up the courage to mill something! Hope that was helpful

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You may have been better to by a MT reducing sleeve that will be easier than having to remove and refit the chuck onto different arbors.

Ideally, a collet chuck to fit the spindle would be the best way to hold milling cutters but the light cuts you will be limited to on a lathe will not be that likely to pull a cutter out of a 3-jaw chuck, just check how true the chuck grips the cutter. The Mini in my Avatar was done a long time ago holding cutters in the 3-jaw chuck.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

One thing that you willl learn is that

1: Whatever kit you buy, eventually you will wish you’d bought the next , bigger model

2. Whatever chuck you currently have fitted is not suited to the job you want to do next

3. This hobby seems designed to efficiently remove material. Primarily money from your pocket!

Seriously, as Jason says collets are preferred for holding cutters. Yes, on the very light cuts you are limited to with your setup the 3 jaw will probably hold OK, but 3 jaw scroll chucks are often not as accurate as you may think, and when you get more adventurous you may run into ‘unexplained’ issues with accuracy of milling cuts.

As others have noted, the ER collets are versatile and quite economical these days (but buy from a good source)

Regards Mike

[Mike Hurley]

On Mike Hurley Said:

When I first started out, not having much idea I made the mistake of buying various tools, arbors collets, vert slide etc to fit my lathe so I could mill. Although I managed to successfully do what I wanted at the time, it soon became clear that this setup was very limited and I invested in a small mill. Much, much better. So all I am saying is don’t rush in headfirst, note what other have advised here, carefully assess what sort of work you are likely to be doing and get a realistic picture of your needs

That’s exactly my experience.  Not that it doesn’t work at all, the problem is the list of limitations.

• Poor rigidity, so light cuts only.  (It’s a small lathe.)
• Not much travel, so short length cuts only
• Not much space, so small objects only
• Restricted work-holding, resulting in long set-up times and much head-scratching
• Cutters can be held in a 3-jaw chuck, but not well…

The combination of restrictions made milling on a mini-lathe more trouble than it was worth in my workshop.  Milling took an age to set-up and do and most of the parts I was making where a shade too big.   As always results depend on what you are doing, but I found milling on a mini-lathe downright frustrating.

Combination lathe/mills get a bad press for similar reasons:  not that they don’t work, the problem is lack of space and rigidity compared with a dedicated milling machine.   These are a dream in comparison:  simply having a bigger table and more travel simplifies work-holding enormously and they aren’t restricted to short light cuts on small parts only,   Milling jobs taking an hour or more to set-up and cut are done on a real mill in minutes.

Plenty of good work done in the past by milling on lathes, but back then most Model Engineers had no alternative!  The size of the lathe matters too; bigger the better.  Myford sized machines provide more space and travel for milling than a mini-lathe.   Generally though, people with space and money for one buy a milling machine rather than mill on a lathe.

In hindsight, equipping a mini-lathe for milling was a waste of my money – apart from the learning experience!

Dave

 

[Matt TParticipant @mattt]

Appreciate all the advice. A dedicated mill simply isn’t possible for the foreseeable in my extremely limited setup. I could possibly invest in a bigger lathe but I will wait until I have a bigger workshop. Excuse the mess!

[Author]

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