Milling on a Lathe with a Vertical Slide

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

Posted by IanT on 01/05/2021 22:44:28:

I don't know the WM180 Bill but I started off milling in the lathe and still do so for some things when it suits my needs. What would I recommend?

Well for a start the most rigid set-up you can achieve, which in my book means forgetting swivelling slides – nice idea but rarely essential. My heavy (Chinese) vertical slide attaches to my S7 cross-slide (via an adaptor plate) and if there is any give, it's in the cross-slide – not the slide. For some items that don't need vertical adjustment once set-up, a simple angel plate will often be sufficient. I have a very nice solid 'V' angle plate that I use. The work can be set to the required height by packing, screw-jacks or sometimes just by eye.

The other thing you will need is a secure way to hold the cutter. The cheapest option is a single-size collet-holder but I'd get an ER chuck and use that. Mine are ER32 and they get used a lot for work-holding too.

So if you don't have the money, space or real need for a mill, then there is usually a way to do the work on the lathe. It might not be as quick or as convenient but for some folk that's not a problem in practice.

Regards,

IanT

Ian,

I will be opting for the simple approach using Angle plate DIY clamps and a home made adaptor plate, but if I do decide to get a vertical slide, I am struggling to find one the size you were referring to and they all seem to come with an angle plate fitted, which I won’t need. Any details in the one you had?

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hello William,

I've had a look for my vertical slide but cannot see anything exactly the same. I guess the Chinese factories tend to do one-off production runs and maybe this particular version has now been superceded.

My table is 6.5" x 4" and has a vertical travel of about 3". It is very heavy. It also has vertical slots and came with vice 'jaws' that ran in them (and which always slip when tightened). However the slots do work OK to hold a small vice. The nearest I can find are the 5" x 4" slides that Arc Euro & Warco sell – although they are now about twice the price that I paid if I recall correctly. I remember lugging it back from a show but not the vendor I'm afraid.

Here's another photo – It's being used on my EW to hold a Taig ER16 milling head – something I sometimes still do in the winter, when I'm staying inside.

Regards,

IanT

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

An interesting repurposing of your IT training plaque there Ian!

How is your milling 'stack' secured to the dovetail lathe bed?

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hi Andy,

I cut a length of bar with a matching angle in the Myford and cut it in half for gib pieces. It's very easy to do with a faceplate and some hex bar – just fly-cutting, no special cutter required.

One piece is simply bolted to the bottom edge of the raising block but the other piece has slotted holes to allow some movement. Two small clamps on the side of the block tighten the sliding gib inwards and when everything is snugged up it's very solid.

The set-up works fine for light milling of small parts and is just as easy/quick to set-up as the EW's vertical slide.

Regards,

IanT

[Andy CarlsonParticipant @andycarlson18141]

Posted by IanT on 11/05/2021 08:50:30:

Hi Andy,

I cut a length of bar with a matching angle in the Myford and cut it in half for gib pieces. It's very easy to do with a faceplate and some hex bar – just fly-cutting, no special cutter required.

Thanks Ian. I like the hex bar setup. I must get hold of some larger sized hex so that I can try that one myself.

My Faircut lathe has a 60 degree dovetail bed with an unmachined slot in the middle so I'm always looking for good ways to attach stuff. My Cowells also has a 60 degree dovetail… but at least that one has a machined 'T' in the middle.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Large steel hex? – Car boot sale and very old/broken Wolf drill stand for 50p (it was the upright bit)

Regards,

IanT

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi William here is a picture of my vertical slide in operation. It is mounted on to my M Type Drummond/Myford lathe and I am flycuting the top of a casting. I had to make an adapter plate to bolt to the cross slide which has a set of holes in to match the slide.

If you are interested it is for sale as I have a mill now and I don't look like using it anymore. Send a PM if you are interested.

David

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

So, moving forward slowly with this (Busy completing a Robot entry for a competition).

I will be using…………………………video to fabricate a Milling Attachment on my Warco WM180 (thanks to Peter Baverstock for the link, but have a couple of questions.

I have removed the Compound Slide to reveal the stud that the Compound Slide can swivel on. On the lathe Steve shows the stud is 8mm, mine is only 6mm and the bolts are probably about 5mm.

If I use these to fix my base plate on which the Angle Plate will secure, will they be strong enough to hold everything for milling?

Edited By JasonB on 10/07/2021 18:28:36

[Nick WelburnParticipant @nickwelburn]

I tried this, despite the sage advice of Jason B. I managed to make some poor cuts and break a couple of end mills. I now own a mill despite making all the protestations about space. It does everything better than attempting it on the lathe. I am however a rank amateur so a more experienced operator may be more successful.

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

I have just placed orders for various bits that I need to make this milking attachment and some other projects.

One project involves parting, which, as you will see from my other threads is causing me some bother. Advice on a small lathe is to fit a rear tool post. So I am considering modifying this base plate to hold a rear tool post? Thoughts?

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

using that compound slide mount for a vertical slide will make for a very limited amount of adjustment. That's even more limited than a vertical slide normally provides.

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 10/07/2021 18:19:19:

using that compound slide mount for a vertical slide will make for a very limited amount of adjustment. That's even more limited than a vertical slide normally provides.

Dod you mean on a Milling Machine or on a modified Lathe?

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by William Harvey 1 on 11/07/2021 15:39:59:

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 10/07/2021 18:19:19:

using that compound slide mount for a vertical slide will make for a very limited amount of adjustment. That's even more limited than a vertical slide normally provides.

Dod you mean on a Milling Machine or on a modified Lathe?

Why would you fit a vertical slide to a milling machine?

A vertical slide on a lathe gives a you a very small area for your tool to work in. Fitting the vertical slide at the outboard end of the cross-slide makes that even smaller.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The V. slide is not going to be mounted to the compound slide mount, the compound fixings are used to mount a sub plate and then the V slide is fitted to an angle plate fixed to the subplate which puts it in the best position to get the most movement across the lathe as well as vertically downwards 

 

Edited By JasonB on 11/07/2021 16:23:17

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

So in between jobs, I started to take some measurements and plan for this modification.

Here is a pic of a piece of plate I bought from eBay to make the base plate and also the 6" x 5" x 1.5" Angle Plate from RDG Tools eBay outlet.

Sadly the plate is not machined and appears to be a piece of 150mm x 10mm plate cut at 150mm. I am not sure whether I should clean it up as best I can with a Flap Disc as it won't be perfectly flat?

It may need cutting down to fit nicely on the base plate.

Earlier in this thread I was also a little unsure whether the 5mm Allen Bolts that are employed in this Lathe, would be sufficient to hold a base plate and milling attachment for milling. However in this video by Ade from Ade's Workshop 'Shed Talk 11', he has made a similar attachment for the same lathe and has had good results. The milling attachment can be found at about 8:43 into the video. He uses the 5mm allen bolts and incorporates a third at the opposite end of the Cross Slide.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The M5 fixings should be OK, it's not as though you will be taking reaLly heavy cuts. The third tapping is a good idea.

You probably would have been better off with bright (hot rolled) material rather than Black (cold rolled)

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

So, I made a little more progress tonight before leaving for home but made a bit of a mess TBH.

I marked the locations of all three holes in the base plate and centre punched them, everything looked good until I had finished drilling them and found the the base plate did not fit on the swivel. On closer inspection one of the outer holes was out of centre (I must have rushed it)

So watchingthe video again, he measured, marked and drilled the middle hole but the placed the swivel on the base plate and used a transfer punch, that way ensuring that the holes were correctly located!!!

I should have watched the video again before taking on the task – school boy error!!!

Anyway, I don't have a transfer punch so should I buy one or is there another method?

I found this one on Chronos but I don't quite understand it as it says it is a 5 – 20mm? I need one to fit through a 5mm hole?

Edited By JasonB on 14/07/2021 19:42:40

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You can twist a 5mm drill bit in your fingers to mark the surface or turn a point on a bit of 5mm rod or turn down larger dia to 5mm and point that.

The tapered part of the Chronos one will sit in a 5-20mm hole but you need to make sure it is perfectly vertical. Other option is punches like these 

Edited By JasonB on 14/07/2021 19:46:00

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

Posted by JasonB on 14/07/2021 19:43:52:

You can twist a 5mm drill bit in your fingers to mark the surface or turn a point on a bit of 5mm rod or turn down larger dia to 5mm and point that.

The tapered part of the Chronos one will sit in a 5-20mm hole but you need to make sure it is perfectly vertical. Other option is punches like these

Edited By JasonB on 14/07/2021 19:46:00

I found the same multi transfer punch on RDG but it gives a diagram on how to use it, very easy to be off centre (a bit like my manual scribing!!!)

Yes have lathe – make tool

I'll have a go at making one, no point buying a whole set, besides I want to get stuck into this at the weekend and nothing I order now will arrive in time. 6mm bolt or a bit of rod and turn it down with a point on the end.

And I thought I was doing so well

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I’ve found that if you have to use through punches do not hold them at the end hold next to the material.

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

Well, now that school is out I can spend a little un disturbed time on this project.

I made some better progress today. After the previous mishap I marked a new centre hole on the same piece of blank steel but on the opposite side (this will be covered by the Angle Plate anyway).

After marking and drilling the centre hole, I placed the baseplate on the Compound Slide Swivel Plate (or Micrometer Pan), as it is called in the manual and transferred the position of the first hole using a 4mm drill. Once drilled and checked I transferred the position of the second hole in the same manner.

Here are the old and new sets of holes.

Next I needed to measure the heads of the allen bolts and counterbore the holes so that the bolt heads were not proud of the face. The problem was that, after turning the workshop upside down, the bolts were nowhere to be seen!!!

I then searched in all of my bags and the house, probably spent about an hour looking and after giving up, I found them later that day!!!

To counterbore, I needed an 8.5mm flat bottomed drill, which I do not posses, so I made one using a spare drill bit.

I started the hole with an 8.5mm standard drill bit and then lined up and went in with the flat bottom drill bit. For these larger drills I turned the drill speed down to 600rpm?

I also lined the drill up with the face of the material and set a depth stop.

Then lined up the drill bit, secured the work piece and in we went.

Here are the two holes, one is slightly deeper

Here it is in place.

The bolts need shortening slightly and I need to make a recess in the base or maybe fit a shim, as the screw that holds the cross slide threaded nut in place sits proud of the face plate.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You are making progress!

There is light at the end of the tunnel which will bring great satisfaction when everything goes to gether and functions as intended.

Keep at it!

Howard

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by William Harvey 1 on 14/07/2021 19:59:20:

I found the same multi transfer punch on RDG but it gives a diagram on how to use it, very easy to be off centre (a bit like my manual scribing!!!)

[…]

And I thought I was doing so well

.

I hope Ketan, at ARC, is not offended

MichaelG.

[William Harvey 1Participant @williamharvey1]

Hmm, I need a 14mm recess and I only have up to 13mm drills.
I don’ t think the drill does more than 13mm?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You have got a mill now so you can either do a "square" recess with rounded corners using say a 6mm cutter or if you have a boring head that could be used.

"blacksmiths" drills have a 1/2" shank and come in larger diameters if you want to drill the recess 

Edited By JasonB on 28/07/2021 10:04:22

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