Milling machine advice

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi everyone,

Im new to hobby machining and am looking to purchase a benchtop milling machine. My budget is around 1k- 1.5k. I have looked around and a few names crop up e.g

Warco, amadeal, chester.

They all seem pretty similair but i would appreciate others experience and opinions. I dont want to purchase the wrong machine and regret it . I have the warco wm180 lathe and have been happy with it but im looking for some guidance .

 

Thanks

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

In my experience machines from Arc Eurotrade are good value and their support is excellent.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Factor in the cost of end mills, vice and possibly a rotary table, coolant system, DROs (Digital Read outs), centre finder, set of parallels and some coolant. It all adds up I am afraid.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not sure if a smal benchtop mill needs a coolant system, maybe allow a pound for a cheap brush and pot.

As Said the SIEG machines from ARC are also worth looking at and they quite often do starter packages with the items Speedy mentions (less coolant pump). The fact that they have ridgid heads rather than tilting like the others you mention makes them easier to keep in tram.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

With regard to tooling we have been there before. have a look at this advice 

 

[Speedy Builder5]

On Speedy Builder5 Said:

Factor in the cost of end mills, vice and possibly a rotary table, coolant system, DROs (Digital Read outs), centre finder, set of parallels and some coolant. It all adds up I am afraid.

To start no need for coolant ‘system’, DRO or rotary table.

Tony

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Warco have a sale on. Get the most expensive you can afford and use code SUMMER15 for extra 15%. So that looks like the 16B.

At least then you can remind yourself why you got the 16B… because it was a bargain!

 

(I got a SIEG from Arc but it the size of the WM18. I think all the big suppliers in UK are good. I have used the limits of my machine but still glad it isn’t bigger. 16 would have been too small for me.)

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi,

Il have a look at seig as well, the 16B would prob be the kind of size i was looking at, can i ask is it a bad thing if the head tilts as opposed to one which doesnt, does this feature have its uses and how often would you use it, also  is it a lengthy process to tram the bed if i did use the tilt feature. I have a £200 ish budget for tooling.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

+1 for the advice to buy a Sieg from Arc Euro, for the advice that will ,be available.

How often will you use a tilting head? If rarely; rigidity should be more important factor.

A Rotary Table can be used for a variety of purposes, and will certainly allow you to mill work at an angle,as well for other puroses, hole / slot angular spacing (I use mine for gear cutting)

If a Rotary Table will not do what you want, from time to time, you can buy / make wedges to go under work.

Howard

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

I spent all my available cash on getting the mill and a few cutters and collets. All the other stuff I bought along the way. After 20 years I still don’t have a DRO or rotary table, but your needs may be different.
Buy the most rigid machine you can get for your money. I went over budget to get a Warco VMC and have been very pleased with it.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I’ve got a WM16B – I’ve found it very satisfactory for the price.

The tilting head feature isn’t something that you’re likely to need often, but if you do, it’s there. It isn’t difficult to tram it true, and once done it stays there.

Changing the belt speed could be easier, but it’s much quieter than the 2 speed gear arrangement on some mills.

The advice Bazyle links to is pretty reasonable, though really you’ll need a minimum of four collets – 10, 8, 6 and 4mm, which will cover the most commonly used end mills.

Don’t spend lots of money on posh cutters. Get a cheap set like these to begin with:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334494436594

They’re actually OK, and you won’t cry if when you chip one.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Don’t forget in your sizing calcs.

The table moves sideways more than you think.

The vertical space quoted in the specs does not include room for any cutters nor the means to hold them.

A 4″ milling vice is huge compared to a 3″ version.

Also a brushless motor is better than the equivalent brushed one and some sellers (they use the makers figures) quote motor power as power consumed not power output.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

+1 for Sieg from Arc Eurotrade. I have one of their smaller mill. I’m very pleased with it and their service both before and after purchase is excellent.

Robert.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Arc are currently offering a bundle with their SX3 variant.  They might be amenable to offering a bundle with a smaller model?  They could only say yes or no!

Arc are my goto for most supplies.  Warco service has always been good, too.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

I guess before you make a choice, ask what do you intend to use it for? With mills, bigger and heavier is usually better, but not if the biggest thing you want to mill is an inch across and made of brass.

Worth considering ‘pre-owned’, for example there is a WM18 on the lathes.co site for your budget. but might be overkill for your purposes. I think some S/H mills in the classifieds on this site.

 

 

[teucher]

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

Were you buying two?

The latest Version is the SX2PG and that is £820 so well within budget and plenty to spend on tooling. You could even just manage the larger SX2.7 at £1420 if the budget stated did not include tools.

Have a look at the two articles at the top of the workshop section, they use the SX2.7 to do the cuts and video, it will give you an idea of what they can remove metal like. I’ll add a third part later today. Also note that the 2.7 is direct drive to spindle so no belts to change or gears to make noise or strip.

[teucher]

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

I looked and the SX2 is lower cost than the VM16
VM16 £1595
https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303699-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

SX2L £1451 (the short table is a bit cheaper but the L is same size as VM16)
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX27-Mill/SIEG-SX27-HiTorque-Mill

While broadly similar there are differences that make it hard to make direct comparision difficult. VM16 is brushed motor SX2 is Brushless. VM16 is tilting head SX2 is fixed.
Generally a brushless motor is preferable. Tilting head is less rigid and needs setting up every time it is moved and most tasks can be acheived on a fixed head with a tilting vice or similar.

Robert.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

I think i looked at the seig sx3. This machine would be nice but over budget for me i think. I think the sx2 is prob more the area i think il be purchasing in, unless i can pick up something S/H . I will continue the search.👍

 

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Another vote for the Warco WM16B.  Just don’t go too heavy with your cuts, but that’s probably true for most bench top milling machines.  I know they can look a bit expensive, but my DRO has been a game changer, particularly the 1/2 and PCD functions.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

I do like the warco stuff, i have a wm180 lathe with dro and i like it. I was unsure if to buy a mill and add the Dro kit at a latter date or just buy it fitted. I did like the warco16B and have seen some videos on youtube of them and they seem ok. This type of hobby is expensive to get started in but i hope once i have the machines and tooling etc it will just be material costs and my time.

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

On teucher Said:

I looked at the seig sx2, it looked good but at1.6k is a tad pricier than say the warco vm16. I will do some more searching and maybe compare specs etc. If anyone has more suggestions i would like to hear them. Thanks for the input guys.

👍

I looked and the SX2 is lower cost than the VM16
VM16 £1595
https://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/303699-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

SX2L £1451 (the short table is a bit cheaper but the L is same size as VM16)
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/SIEG-SX27-Mill/SIEG-SX27-HiTorque-Mill

While broadly similar there are differences that make it hard to make direct comparision difficult. VM16 is brushed motor SX2 is Brushless. VM16 is tilting head SX2 is fixed.
Generally a brushless motor is preferable. Tilting head is less rigid and needs setting up every time it is moved and most tasks can be acheived on a fixed head with a tilting vice or similar.

Robert.

Robert, you are linking and pricing to a SX2.7L not a SX2L and then talk of an SX2.

Standard table is less prone to droop but that is the same for any mill with a long table even Bridgeports.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

If you have CAD and are reasonably skilled it may be worth doing a space diagram to verify that the mill you intend to buy actually has enough room to easily handle the jobs you propose to do.

Continually working around insufficient space is a truly miserable experience.

I got rid of my first two mills, a BCA and large size square column import, and went up to a Bridgeport purely for space reasons. The square column mill was largely equal to the Bridgeport in stiffness and machining capacity but it simply lacked space to easily handle the work I ended up doing

Which ended up rather different than I originally planned! Turned out I’m not a model maker. Happy being Home Shop Guy working in 12 inch to the foot scale.

As David Halford mentioned above the gotcha with a mill is that everything has to fit inside the work envelope so once you’ve added work holding underneath and tooling stick out on top the actual room for the job is a lot less. Don’t underestimate setting up space. Much easier if you can crank things sideways enough so you don’t have to work under the head. Probably the thing that really confirmed that I had to go up to a Bridgeport form my short table square column one where setting up had to be done under the head rather than out to one side then crank back.

Tilting heads need a decently long table if they are to be regularly useful. With a short table by the time you have the job mounted up and allowed for the tool stick out the useful angle of tilt can be severely restricted because the table can’t go far enough sideways. In practice about 10° or 15° maximum on my short table square column one without risky levels of creativity in work holding. Flipping the thing right over to horizontal is the province of big, by home shop standards, brutes like Bridgeport and Beavers et al and even then there isn’t much space.

Fixed heads, hopefully with more vertical lift and short drills to give room for a tilting work holder are best for smaller machines. Pity it’s hard to find comprehensive sets of short drills. For model making purposes you don’t need the length of conventional jobber drills above around 1/4″ 6 mm (ish). I reckon it’s pretty rare for model makers using bench top sized mills to drill more than 2″ / 50 mm deep using the mill.

Rather than splash out on a brand new machine far better to find a decent used example to get your feet wet without risking a huge loss if the choice turns out to be the wrong one for you. Generally decent used mill prices are pretty static so you will get back pretty much what you paid. Just be out collection and installation costs. Worth it to get a much better idea of what you actually want as opposed to what you thought you wanted.

But I would say that ‘cos it was third time right for me. (well near enough I still prefer a Beaver or TS but I haven’t the ceiling height).

Clive

[Clive Foster]

On Clive Foster Said:

If you have CAD and are reasonably skilled it may be worth doing a space diagram to verify that the mill you intend to buy actually has enough room to easily handle the jobs you propose to do.

 

Clive

Before I bought my Warco VMC I downloaded a manual of the type somewhere and it included a diagram of the working envelope with all the sizes. Easy to scan and drop into a plan of my workshop.

[teucherParticipant @teucher]

Hi there,  i have a decent size garage workshop, portioned into wood lathe, bandsaw, routers etc and now the other half is metal working so metal lathe and soon to be milling machine etc. I have about 1.2 m of worktop cleared for the mill and a large cabinet for tooling. I would consider a used machine at a fair price as my budget would go further. I understand about the clearance etc and once vices and clamps are introduced that this is drastically reduced, so perhaps a used machine is the way to go. I cant seem to find the classified on the site to see if any are advertised, but i will have a search.

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