Mill Power feed unit.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Morning all..!

I am wondering if anyone has one of these generic chinese horizontal power feed units (with the suspect looking mount!).

If so how well does it work, how well does the manual feed work with it connected (how stiff it is etc)? Does it really stick out as much as it appears to?

I was going to build a power feed out of a decent (ish!) 24v worm gear motor (wiper motor type with keyway) that can be engaged / disengaged as required.

The reason for the question really is I can get the above ready made unit for about £140 which by the time I buy a motor, PS, PWM, materials etc and a fair amount of time to do the job makes the  ready made unit possibly a better option

– however –

The above unit is listed as about 300mm long (with or without the mount?) so sticks out a fair bit (and weighs 6kg!!) and I’m short of room where as a home built unit I could probably limit it to no more than 100 – 150mm  more than the current hand wheel and would add much less weight to the end of the table.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated 🍻

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It may help others who have used similar units, if you quote the make and model of that specimen. At the size given, it is probably intended for Bridgeport turret-mills and larger.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Well pointed out Nigel, I forgot to put the link in.

This is the horizontally mounted Power feed intended for the RF45 type mill table rather than the vertically mounted type suited to the Bridgeport style mill.

It is essentially the same type as the Chester supplied unit.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135175196171?

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has one of these too.

I looked at similar ones for my Warco VMC and from my research, there seems to be several models that all look the same. However the main difference appears to be the torque rating, they range from about 130ftlbs to upto 650ftlbs. My understanding is that the higher torque models use better quality materials for the gears. (Nylon or brass rather than plastic).

The above put me off buying one.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

I had a Vertex horizontal mount one on the RF30 mill-drill I sold last year & replaced a faulty Vertex vertical mounted  one on an XYZ KRV2000 turret mill bought from an auction at work with one from Chester. Both worked largely trouble free & the Chester one was a straight fit onto the XYZ machine in place of the Vertex unit (which had been butchered before we bought the machine – large parts missing meant replacement was cheaper/easier than repair). The “largely trouble free” was in rsepect of the Chester unit, which one of my “Mr Nobody” colleagues managed to damage the potentiometer by rotating it past the end stop. It still worked afterwards, but more care was needed.

Both units gave good range of controllable feeds, but they are a bit noisy – particularly at the Rapid setting. Accelleration / deccelleration at Rapid is also a bit lethargic, with a lot of run on when the button is released.

Check the operating voltage, as most seem to be 110v & so require a transformer – my RF30 came with the matching Vertex transfomer in a steel enclosure. The limit switch block on the Vertex was a bit chunky, meaning the cable going in to it was a bit crushed against the saddle casting on the RF30 – no problems with space on the XYZ. The horizontal bracket arrangement does work but is a bit Heath Robinson & takes a bit of faffing to get the gears aligned so that they are neither too tightly or too loosely engaged. The bracket is above the top of the table working surface, so may require working around if you get a workpiece that overhangs the table in that direction.

HTH

Nigel B.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Taaf_Pembs (and Hollowpoint)  I bought a Warco VMC mill when I returned to the UK in 2015 and ordered the X-axis power feed at the same time. It was LOT cheaper then, but as Nigel has said, it was a 110V unit requiring a transformer – also supplied by Warco. It was an Align unit – like this one so more spendy that the one Taf_Pembs linked to. As you can see from the picture below, I suspect that the 30cm dimension referred to the height, not the protrusion beyond the end of the table.

The power transformer is the wall-mounted box on the right.  I would agree with all the points raised by Nigel.  Having said that, it was a worthwhile addition to the mill.  If I ever bought another mill, it would be the second accessory to add, after a 3-axis DRO.

John

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

I have one of these, apparently mine is a genuine Align unit (the original maker) supplied modified with the black adapter as you show for mill/drill fitment. It did not take long to determine that the supplied adapter was more or less useless. It was impossible to maintain correct mesh with the gear that you need to fit to the leadscrew due to the screws moving on the draw in the table pockets.

I made up an aluminium block mounted on the table end bearing housing. Here is a photo. The wing nut allows the power feed unit to be removed, and the hand wheel can then be refitted  but in practice never necessary. If you think more detail would be helpful, I can try to take a couple more photos when I have time.

To answer your questions, as now fitted to my mill/drill, the Align unit works very well considering. The main three position lever operates a dog clutch so that the mid position disconnects from the lead screw, and the remaining hand wheel is only slightly stiffer. To compensate, there is a fast slew button. The feed has a well chosen and surprisingly wide speed range. There is a slight cyclical speed variation that seems due to the large plastic gear in the unit, but replacing it did not change the effect. It does not seem to cause significant problems such as patterning.

It does stick out as a long way but I am used to it. And the weight does not seem to trouble the table operation. Overall, a good asset, and I would buy another if the current one failed.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Now that Malcolm has posted that photo of his installation, it explains the weird attachment block.  I wouldn’t fit it in that orientation, particularly on a hobby-sized machine. I’d be worried that the weight of it might cause the table to flex.  I therefore withdraw my recommendation of the power feed.

John

 

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Thanks all.. !

Yes, there are quite a few variants, the one I linked to is the 220v version so no probs there and 450in/lbs torque so in the higher region for this type (that is claimed mind!).

John, for the mill I have (Chester SuperLux / RF45 clone)  it is a horizontal mount, they do seem to stick out a fair bit and you loose the hand wheel (not that that is much of an issue).

(Pic grabbed form a google image search)

Oh decisions decisions.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Sorry, another 2 posts before mine showed up.. I’ll read on

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Thanks for that Malcolm, perfect info cheers!

I do like how you have mounted it, really didn’t like the look of the bracket it is supplied with.

I think with the space I am limited to (way tooo much stuff in the workshop!!) I might have go down the route of making a slimmer one, it would fit until I needed to travel the table to the left then I would probably run into the main work bench!

Thanks again folks! 🍻

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Does this horizontal mounting mean they can connect to the lead screw without the wonderful bronze bevel gear and big pile of shim washers to keep it quiet? That should cut the price back a bit 🙂

Robin

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Robin,

The link posted by Taf_Pembs in his first post gives a specification that includes a reference to bevel gears, which would fit with the orientation.  Had I taken more notice of that, I might have worked it out!
John

 

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

The horizontal mounting is simply because there is not enough height for the “Bridgeport” format. The gears are indeed basic straight cut, about 3:1 reduction.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I have a cheap variant, looks like Taf’s picture.

It is 240v and came with UK domestic plug.

450ft/lb I think (I’m at work).

Mounts sideways, as Macolm says, table end too close to bench to ‘hang’ it.

Hasn’t bent the table, doesn’t feel like it weighs 6kg either, I’d guess that is shipping weight.

Progressive and smooth speed control from ‘crawling’ to rapid.

Less friction on the screw than expected – it hasn’t compromised the ability to ‘hit the number’ on a 5um dro, and it’s still possible to get a good finish winding by hand.

On the downside, I do miss the l/h handle ( try ‘nudging / picking-up a mark with sticky-pin whilst holding a magnifier / torch), and the Stops.

The ‘knock-offs’ are rubbish and the table runs on, if you can make one with a mechanical transmission that drops-out precisely and repeatably, it’d be a much better bet.

It’s okay for long workpieces, would I fit one to my next mill? Hmmm only if cheap.

Edit, mounted with care on supplied fittings, feels solid and has been stable.

This on Warco Major

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

<p style=”text-align: center;”>.. rubbish in the sense that you can’t mill up to a shoulder!🙂</p>

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Afternoon Taff I fitted the Chester power feed to my RF 45 with transformer supplied by Chester. The alingnment has always been challenging mainly due to the bracket supplied to fit the power feed to the table. Using the power feed transformed surface finish.

I also fitted three axis DRO with the Z axis attached directly to the quill, transformed accuracy from hit and miss to bang on. Bracket top and bottom on front of gearbox containing linear bearings. Ground steel rod passing through linear bearings and attached by a small bracket to the quill shoe. Only modification two small tapped holes in shoe to attach bracket carrying ground steel rod, all original functions accesible.

How did you arrange the self eject function for tooling?

Robet Butler

 

[Diogenes]

On Diogenes Said:

I have a cheap variant, looks like Taf’s picture.

It is 240v and came with UK domestic plug.

—-

This on Warco Major

All very interesting Diogenes, thanks for that .. I thought 6kg seemed a little high. so other than the trips you seem to find it pretty good. 🤔 Tempting now, will have to see if I physically have room.

 

Hi Robert, the mounting method that Malcolm showed above is sort of what I was thinking about if I were to go for that one, hard bolt an ally plate to the end of the table and bolt the unit to that although he seems to have gone the extra and made it easily removable yet still keeping the gear mesh correct.

The DRO will have to wait until I get a bit of income but it is certainly on the list. As for the Draw bar, it’s not fitted yet as I’ve only really been using the collet chuck but as the draw bar thread in the chuck is so far off vertical it jams, it works perfectly (so far!) with the other tooling that has M12 thread so I’ve left it out at the moment until I replace the collet chuck. I’ll get some pics of it when in place.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

The DRO will have to wait until I get a bit of income but it is certainly on the list.

All depends upon what you intend the primary use of your machine will be, but with “rescouce limitations” I would choose to prioritise a DRO over a power feed. I did it the other way round on my FB2 clone and regret doing so since I did get a DRO – makes the machine so much more “useable”.

Nigel B.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

The attached photo shows how I mounted my “generic” style power feed (240v) to my version of this of mill.  I’m limited on space so wanted a compact installation without losing any X axis travel.

By extending the leadscrew and support bearing housing then mounting the drive at an angle (to clear the swarf/drip tray) I have managed not to compromise the X axis travel. I also wanted to retain handwheels at both ends of the table.  I also wanted to keep the device below the clamping face of the work table.  Manage this except for the clutch/direction lever, can  move this if necessary.  This is a point I think is fundamental to good mill design, clearly a point missed on these far eastern built machines

It all works well. Doesn’t stiffen the feed when a manual feeding is wanted.  Its not noisy, there is a little noise, some from the gears and some could be from the brushed motor(?), never the less, unobtrusive.   As for the device running on, control it with the clutch/direction lever and it doesn’t.

Setting up the meshing of the bevel gears was easy enough, shims supplied to do this.

I’ve had about a years worth of use out of it, reliable so far.

One concern I have is the speed of the motor.  For slow feed while machining, I use the bottom third of the speed range.  Would it be better to have the motor running faster, easier on the motor?  That is with a 2.5mm leadscrew pitch.

I’ve just had to got through the mounting of the power feed again because  I have fitted ball screws to the X and Y axis.  These screws have a 5mm pitch so halve the feed motor speed in normal use.  Will that distress the motor?  I know of one of these feed units being used on a mill with a 0.25″ pitch leadscrew, its been okay on that for a number of years.

It could be that the much more efficient ball screw will ease the load on the feed motor, time will tell.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Nice one John, that’s a way round it.

Nigel B, seeing the relatively large clear dials on Johns machine is seriously making me think about DRO vs Power feed as I realise that the dials on mine are a pathetically small diameter and difficult to see. I had best cost it up and start saving.

I have a spare Samsung tablet so could go down the route of Touch DRO. I’ll cost it all up first.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Personally, I’m not a fan of cheap chinese kit.

Phil Vandelay made a youtube vid of him making one.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Maybe there were typos, but I can guarantee those are inch pounds and not foot pounds of applied torque for these power feed units. It takes a pretty decent automotive engine to produce 450 ft. lbs of torque. 🙂 And Align wasn’t the first to produce this design. But they may have been the first to clone one from the much more expensive American made Servo power feeds. https://www.servoproductsco.com/html/power_feeds.html

They do add a slight bit of extra drag when using the hand wheel or crank Taf, but it’s minimal. There’s also a bit of added gear noise when rotating the X axis feed screw by hand, and a bit more from the motor under power. Shimming to get the correct pinion gear to crown gear tooth engagement is important for the best gear life and that reduced gear noise. But that’s easily done just by marking the teeth on the crown gear with marking out blue or even a felt tip pen and doing a few trial assemblies checking how well that pinion drive gear engages with the crown gear teeth. Fortunately, the one I bought and it’s table mount directly bolted up to my BP clone in less than an hour with no modifications at all.

But I think it would be a lot of work to design any power feed from scratch even using off the shelf motors and gearing and still come up with all the same built in capabilities one of these variable speed power feed units already come with. And if you were buying all new parts, I doubt there would be any cost saving at all. Even if the vertical clearance between the C/L of the X axis feed screw and the stand or bench top wasn’t quite enough for your mill, I’d do whatever I had to and raise it enough to allow one of these power feed units to be mounted conventionally. Adapting one to the end of your tables feed screw shouldn’t be very tough at all considering what you’ve already done to your mill. Depending on how you use your mill and for what type and size of parts, it’s imo a bit debatable about the value of a dro first or a power feed. I bought my power feed first and don’t regret that decision. For smaller or tiny parts, your not likely to bother using a powered table feed anyway. Anything larger than maybe 1″-2″ in size, and you’ll be happy you have one each time it’s used.

Some clever use of dial indicators and micrometer setting rods, along with some shop made mounts can easily stand in for a dro until you can afford what you want. Jig borers were working to accuracy levels of roughly + – .0001″ using much the same idea and long before any dro was invented with specialized 1″ travel .0001″indicators and what were micrometer adjustable distance rods. With a power feed and with what most dro’s now have for displays, I’d certainly want one that has the ability to display your table feed rate as well. Mine does, and I think it’s also something that’s well worth having.

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

Try Machine DRO with 3 axis screen. You cant drive a tablet and twiddle the dials/power feed simultaneously.

Robert Butler

[Pete]

On Pete Said:

450 ft. lbs of torque. 🙂

😁indeed, yes inches!

[Author]

Posts