Mill base?

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I have just ordered a birthday present for me, a Warco GH Universal milling machine. At this time the base is out of stock so it will have to sit on something else for the time being. My SX2P sits easily on some converted kitchen cabinets but the GH is somewhat heavier. So a question, what alternative base do you use for this or similar sized machine? If the stock times go on I may end up building a base somewhat similar to the standard but as a bolted structure, I am no welder.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Base alternatives for new machine.

[Anonymous]

The GH doesn't look like a universal mill to me? The term is often mis-used to indicate a machine that has horizontal and vertical milling capability. The correct usage indicates a (horizontal) milling machine where the table swivels to allow helical milling in conjunction with an appropriate dividing head:

Andrew

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I would think of a base made as strongly as possible, channel section comes to mind. Make sure that it is not too low when designing it. There are usually local professional welders who could make the stand to drawing, or weld up your precut parts. If you can manage the transportation, then the stand could be assembled in stages, and even feature part welded and part bolted construction.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Andrew. I was merely naming it as Warco do. Education is fine but after sixty odd years of it you do not need to educate me on metal cutting machines.

[Martyn Edwards 1Participant @martynedwards1]

I would use KEE or the Interclamp system from The Metal Store. They do free cutting of the galvanised tube so all you have to do is sort height width depth and any fitting for shelves. Free Delivery and it is all put together in minutes with a single Allen key. Shelf could be a double thickness of 25mm MDF glued together (could put a bit of sheet metal on the top if you require it.

Size the tube to support the weight.

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 06/01/2021 19:08:44:

The GH doesn't look like a universal mill to me? The term is often mis-used to indicate a machine that has horizontal and vertical milling capability. The correct usage indicates a (horizontal) milling machine where the table swivels to allow helical milling in conjunction with an appropriate dividing head:

Andrew

Helpful contribution, thanks. Make sure you point out any spelling and grammar errors as well…..

Edited By lfoggy on 06/01/2021 20:57:52

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The Warco GH Universal milling machine looks like it is one of the many Rong Fu machines that are made in Taiwan. I have one that is sold in Australia as an HR-45 mill/drill and bought it with the standard base made from sheet steel. It is sturdy to support the mill but not overly heavy.

The mill base is bolted to a wider base with outrigger casters so it can be moved around my small workshop. It is stable when moving and operating.

The base had an access door at the side and I added a second at the front as well as 2 drawers. The drawers are mounted on extended slides, allowing full access.

Paul.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi HowardT, this is what I made for my Major and the GH version is only 20Kg heavier, basically it is 50 x 50 x 3mm square hollow section uprights and 50 x 50 x 6mm angle for the top and bottom frames, I'm sure you could build something similar with just angle iron and be bolted together.

You could also put outriggers and casters on like Paul has done if you so wish, but make sure they are outside of the mills footprint.

Regards Nick.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 06/01/2021 19:08:44:

The GH doesn't look like a universal mill to me? The term is often mis-used to indicate a machine that has horizontal and vertical milling capability. The correct usage indicates a (horizontal) milling machine where the table swivels to allow helical milling in conjunction with an appropriate dividing head:

Andrew

 

Fully agree. Over-hyped marketing that indicates extra facilities that are not present. My vertical/horizontal Centec is not a universal mill. That designation is reserved for the variant with a table which can be swivelled (for the extra machining capabilities afforded by this attribute).

*****, like many other ‘hypers’ of their descriptions (such as quoting unrealistic motor power), simply aim to ‘pull the wool’ over purchasers re the real specifications of their products.

I don’t know whether it is the un-knowing people, some of them who call themselves specialists in the field, who are doing this – or blatant disregard for their potential customers’ expectations by making special claims for items which do not have those special attributes.

Obviously some customers accept the over-hyped description because they don’t know any better.🙂

Moderator note: whilst I don't disagree with NDIY's views on over-optimistic advertising, I've removed the name of a company, who might be libelled.  Terms and Conditions say members shouldn't:

Upload, post or otherwise transmit any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libellous, or invasive of another's privacy.

Please don't inadvertently defame or libel anyone whilst making a point!   In this case my understanding of what's meant by a 'Universal Mill' is in accord with the advertisers.   I suggest the meaning has shifted over time and isn't an attempt to hoodwink naive buyers.   Another example is the Gut Buster drill; previously a particular type of manual drill, now apparently any unusually big and powerful electric drill.

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/01/2021 09:05:23

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/01/2021 09:25:05

 

Edited By JasonB on 07/01/2021 12:25:37

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Howard, Your Warco GH apears similar to my Amadeal – not least in a birthday prezzy to yourself – had mine for my seventieth

Mine is mounted on a fairly strong wood bench – 4×4" legs and 6×1" rails originally, two extra legs and top rails added for extra support. The top is a layer of 1"MDF over the original 1" chipboard. This has proved to be sound and without movement for the last six years. Just been roughing out cast iron with rippa cutters – no issues

Just another option to consider……?

Enjoy your prezzie however you mount it – it was two years before mine actually saw any work but now I wouldn't be without it – it might not be a true 'universal mill' but does what I need.

Regards – Tug

[Anonymous]

Posted by lfoggy on 06/01/2021 20:55:19:

Make sure you point out any spelling and grammar errors as well…..

I wouldn't dream of it, errors could be because English isn't the posters native language or could be due to dyslexia.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Posted by HOWARDT on 06/01/2021 19:22:43:

Education is fine but after sixty odd years of it you do not need to educate me on metal cutting machines.

My mistake, so I apologise. One thing puzzles me though; given your background why do you need to ask about such a simple issue?

It's nearly 60 years since I started school, but I'm still learning and will continue to do so.

Andrew

[egaParticipant @ega]

I think I see a Quorn shyly nestling behind the mill in Ramon Wilson's photo above. If he built it then I suppose it goes to show that model makers can also be toolmakers and it reminds me that Denis Chaddock was criticised for calling his creation "Universal".

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Paul, Nicholas, Ramon, thanks for your input. I think I have almost convinced myself that a steel base is needed. In the not too distant future we shall be moving to a smaller property and I need something mobile. When the machine comes I can take some measurements and make a base to suit, the limiting factor is probably the up and over garage door and the angle of the drive down to it. I could end ups making it in two sections to raise it up if the door height is too little, Don't expect the machine any time soon as Warco have had to shut down due to Covid according to the site yesterday, but hopefully not too long.

Ramon, yes mine is also a seventieth present.

Discussion on the vagaries of machine naming is not necessary, I bought the machine having fully read the specification first and the name last. Being from a machine tool design background specification is always the first thing I read wether it is for a phone, TV or car, advertising blurb has never caused me to buy anything, that I am aware of.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Moderator note: whilst I don't disagree with NDIY's views on over-optimistic advertising, I've removed the name of a company, who might be libelled. Terms and Conditions say members shouldn't:

Upload, post or otherwise transmit any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libellous, or invasive of another's privacy.

Please don't inadvertently defame or libel anyone whilst making a point! In this case my understanding of what's meant by a 'Universal Mill' is in accord with the advertisers. I suggest the meaning has shifted over time and isn't an attempt to hoodwink naive buyers. Another example is the Gut Buster drill; previously a particular type of manual drill, now apparently any unusually big and powerful electric drill..

Dave

I agree entirely with the first 2 paragraphs of your note but being old school I think it is wrong to offer a mill/drill for sale calling it a universal milling machine, dual purpose yes.
Although it may be seen as misleading I don't believe it is intended to deceive, old hands will know the swivelling table function of the universal mill doesn't exist on the machine in question and newcomers will no doubt take "universal" to mean mill/drill.

Emgee

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Nicely put Emgee but as I said somewhere only recently the world of machining has moved on to leave some of us behind.

In some quarters, apparently, a slot drill is now a 'two flute end mill' – whatever next.

A true universal mill would be seen in few ME workshops but your take on newcomers taking it to mean mill/drill is now probably 'universal' too

Definitely would not advise a wooden 'moveable' bench Howard so metal it is – Hope it works out okay for you.

Have a good birthday

Tug

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Howard,

I'm asuming that " the limiting factor is probably the up and over garage door and the angle of the drive down to it" is only when you aremoving the mill to your new workshop.

I would transport the mill and base separately and re-assemble when you move it to the new workshop. My workshop has a strong beam in the roof and I use a small winch to lift the mill. You could also use a car engine crane.

Paul

[Martyn Edwards 1Participant @martynedwards1]

Assembled in 15 minutes with an 8mm Allen key. Metal cut to size FOC by supplier.

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

The standard stand is only £219 and the chip tray £71.40.

So any proposal has to be cheap enough under £300 and with superior storage to justify itself.

And it has to be decided on within the time it takes Roger Warren to decide to charge extra for delivery.

This is a difficult one, such a big beast may need a low work height (as shown on the standard stand) to change tools and it can't be easy to get to that crank at the side.

[Martyn Edwards 1Participant @martynedwards1]

The tube idea above all in with enough cut MDF from B&Q to box in the storage area on the lower shelf (in progress) comes in less than £90. The tube is 33.7mm diameter and plenty thick enough to hold the 170kg Sieg 3. The tube also comes in bigger diameter but as you say you would would want a lower stand for the Mill you've bought.

Have you thought of contacting Chester UK as they also do similar stands for their Mills.

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

Things may be sorted but have to wait until they are back in the office. If not then I have a good idea for the design of a base and will wait until the machine arrives.

As to naming convention. Every country in the world calls some item by some other name and as time goes by the world becomes smaller and so words are dropped and others replace them. You only have to look at the differences in the English, is it British or American or anywhere else in the English speaking world. Where ever it is you may not understand a description from a single word and request a few more words to understand their interpretation.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I also post on an American forum, and are careful to use international language, such as "sodium hydroxide" when the locals refer to "lye". And some references to "mil" actually mean 0.001"( one thousandth of an inch).

Edited By old mart on 10/01/2021 21:01:41

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