Might be time to change the car blues

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

 

The best car for load space I have owned was a 2004 Honda Accord Tourer, lovely car as well.

Edited By V8Eng on 18/06/2016 22:07:49

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

My '94 nissan 200sx died last year and has just had it's engine resurrected (at vast expense) such that i might well consider a total bodywork and interior refurb too. For me it's been a super comfortable car I fit in and at my size they're not easy to find. I've been suffering a GT86 meanwhile – which is great fun and I may well keep – but the suspension and bucket seats do make it tiring after 90 mins or so…

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Two years ago I scrapped my 2001 VW Passat 2litre petrol when it decided it could run OK on 3 cylinders at 150k miles – exhibiting one severely oiled plug; RAC man tried new plug on the offending cylinder but it did not help.

I bought a 3 year old BMW 320d to replace it: Initial cost maybe not that cheap, but 161 horsepower and just £20 road tax (£21 renewal this month). I get typically 56/57 true mpg; car display says a bit better at around 60mpg – (I could make comments about how mpg data is averaged may not give true average of MPG, but a bit late for a Satuday night, and it is not that far off), However, annual tax and fuel costs are £500 lower than the passat, so I am a happy bunny!

Martin

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The fuel consumption on my X-Type generally show 40mpg often a touch over. At the moment it's 38 as it's only done short trips for a lot longer than usual. i do use it to go some hundreds of yards to the local shops every now and again especially if it raining. That hammers the consumption figures. I checked the figures it comes up with not longer after buying it and they are pretty close. I go to Pembrokeshire often which is why the 40 usually shows, That's a round trip of 400 miles of pretty hard driving with motorway to Monmouth. I might do from say 40 to 80 miles while I'm there. Sometimes more. This doesn't empty the tank. A fill up costs about £65 at the moment following that. The worst with higher prices was about £70+ a bit I worry more about the £ notes than the mpg and have never worked it out. Seems pretty good to me. The fill up was cheaper recently. Sub a £ a lt but it's back up now.

Unless I was running a silly car I used to buy cars just coming up to the MOT. A 911 and one or two others had to be older. Much older in some cases especially the 911. I don't do the sort of mileage I did then now but what I found was low mileage more or less as new doesn't really cost much more than 3 years old and usually changing every 3 except the nearly new needs running for about 6 years. Taking a Passat to 100k and changing proved to be a very bad idea but I changed due to the engine blow up. I wasn't confident about the repair but intended to run it into the ground. It had an Audi V6 engine in it. I was doing a very high annual mileage at the time. Away on hols somewhere or the other every weekend.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Thought I had found a suitable deal yesterday. I was offered the car at 2 prices one 1k less than the other. Just before leaving I asked how much money does that work out at when the px was taken off. I wrote it down.

Later on in the evening I suddenly thought that the number didn't make sense so checked the figure. The price quoted on the car was fine but the cash needed was £1,500 too high on the lower priced car buying method.

Money can be saved by buying on pcp and paying off in the 14 day cooling off period as the manufacturers add to the deposit. Trouble is that finance companies don't like people doing this and it seems they can charge some nebulous amount of interest at a daily rate. So far it's been impossible to find out what that interest rate would be. PCP sounds great but people who try and pay it off well into the period can have problems – legal advice seems to be don't sign anything they send out to people who want to do that. Getting an extra 1k off sounds great but could lead to a lot of hassle so guess I will pass on that, It would be more on some makes.

John

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[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

If you have to brag why not keep the clunker for a bit longer and buy some decent workshop equipment and get in there and actually do something. ???

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Brag ??? and thanks but I already have decent workshop equipment and do what I choose to do with it. I do keep an eye out for a certain replacement lathe but do I really need – no and so far not one single suitable worthwhile buy in something like 5 years.

Maybe you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. Or maybe you view me as being like yourself as this is why you would post a thread like this. I just thought it might be of interest and as finding decent replacement car deals can be very irritating gets some of that off my chest.

John

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[VicParticipant @vic]

I changed cars 5 years ago and will change again next year probably. The old car did 29mpg the current one does 43mpg. The old car didn't have bluetooth, cruise control, heated front seats or a USB socket for media. All items I like to use on the car that replaced it. New cars generally fare better in crash tests as well. Nothing wrong with keeping a car for twenty years if that's what you want to do but don't pretend it's built to modern standards of safety, economy and convenience.

[Graham Williams 5Participant @grahamwilliams5]

Interesting thread, certainly a bit different. Using PCP to buy a car and getting the sweetener and paying off in full in the cooling off period is a fair tactic. The car companies may or may not like it, but until we just bought a Q3( for the other half , nothing on offer from Audi as an inducement) we've bought 1 new VW and 4 new Audi saloons that way and not a peep out of VAG finance, quite helpful in fact. Saved quite a bit of money that way, enough to buy a new miller then some. The inducement's on offer are usually for models where there is max competition in the market place.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There can be all sorts of reasons Vic. On this one my wife would prefer 4×4 type seating these days. I'm not sure I could live with most of the people carriers. Me and seating – that may get worse as I age. Also in this case it may turn out to be the last one I buy. That has worried a me a bit. A very elderly guy in a showroom changing cars because he now needs an automatic.

The other thing about keeping for a very long time is the cost when they have to be changed. They don't get cheaper. The other aspect is that the people who will be buying my current one reckon it will very probably spend less than 2 weeks on their forecourt. That helps my finances.

Running costs in my case, a touch less on fuel and a lower insurance rating – not that this will cause them to reduce it but if I change company it might. I'm not that fussed about the extra bits and bobs but it will be nice to use them. It has the bits and bobs I know I need. That's always been the main thing for me.

John

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[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

My last Volvo had 270k on the clock when I replaced it. It was still going strong but I needed to change to a LHD car. I doubt if many current models will last that long. OK it was a bit thirsty at 27 mpg but I wonder what the carbon cost of making a new car is. It might be good for the economy to change your car every three years but good for the environment? I doubt it.

Russell.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I tend to keep my cars for as long as possible, approx 15yrs between cars, as I try to get value for money. My last car was a Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin SWB ( 1800cc ) 3 door which I bought new in 2001, as it would fit nicely in the garage, but later on as granddaughters were getting bigger it became a bit of a squeeze in the back, I thought afterwards should have got the LWB 5 door, hindsight is a wonderful thing innit' anyway I was out window shopping last August & came across a 2010 Hyundai Tucson 4 x 2 ( 1996cc ) with only 20k on the clock, as my Shogun was also low mileage, 67k, due to my contracting work abroad it was garaged up 6 mo. of the year, I decided to make enquiries.

The garage gave me the history, I female owner, full service history, 4 new tyres, alloys, & a proper full size spare wheel, the lady owner just didn't like driving it…     & had gone for a smaller car, after some negotiating I managed to get a decent price for my Shogun Pinin… Parkers guide rating 'good' … so the deal was agreed. I am well satisfied to date, same tax band as the Shogun, only a couple miles less mpg, & very close on the insurance comparison, as I don't do many miles per year, 5 – 6k p.a. the slight differences are acceptable, & the granddaughters are now much more comfortable… & the eldest has commented … 'More street cred' granddad' … ( ref' to school runs where there is a gamut of 4 x 4's, SUV's, Audi's & BMW's, 15 / 16 plated, Tucson's, kia's , Hmm kids  ). Hopefully this one will also last the distance.

George.

Edited By mechman48 on 20/06/2016 11:55:42

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Re Bazyle's query –

I have a Berlingo, top spec model automatic (go-faster idiocy long since passed!!). As a load carrier, it is the equal of my (some time back) other Citroen BX 19 Turbo. That one did 328,000 before it was dragged off to the scrappy. The Berlingo suits a nadgered wrinkly very well – easy to enter doors, easy 'boot' lid access, sliding side doors and it has spent the last month or more as a two seater with MASSIVE load capacity – wardrobes, bookcases etc for our move back to the rebuilt house.

For those who just HAVE to have a 'Chelsea Tractor', I would recommend the Honda CRV – more particularly the imported ex-Japan versions – but be aware that they are/were larger dimensioned than the UK produced version.

rgds

Bill

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Ajohnw on 18/06/2016 13:52:20:

My car is 6 years old so might be time to change or just carry on running it, 46,000 miles so should be able to get another 3 years out of it easily.

Crikey. I just traded my 1989 Toyota Camry with 280,000km on it on a 2010 Corolla with 60,000km on it (about 35,000 miles). I expect I will get well over 10 years and 100,000km out of the new car trouble free like I did out of the old one. Well over.

New discs you say you might need? Discs, like pads, are a consumable and these days are as cheap as chips to replace. Not even a factor in the long term really.

Like Neil, I'm just grateful to drivers like yourself who keep the rest of us supplied with sub-$1,000-a-year vehicles.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

If you have nowt to do one afternoon then drop into a 'great wall' motors. I stumbled into one by accident (desperate for the loo and thought it was subaru next door)… very polite staff out here in rural town compared to the pushy suits in London and insisted on making very nice coffee and biccy's for the non-buying drop-in.

Huge space, very comfy seats, a towing capacity you wouldn't believe but acceleration that my granny could outpace on foot and china cheap. Not vehicles likely to be on anyone's top list but suprisingly worth a look if you plan on huge loads off-road. But for nipping to the shops the subaru BRZ is heaps more fun.

[EugeneParticipant @eugene]

Forester with Lintran dog box .. not much of a quality pic, but tells the story. Two big Labs carried easily enough on short – medium mileage trips.

Drawbacks …. a gas guzzler; 30 ish mpg (petrol) and relatively high servicing costs.

Good things …. excellent cross country performance, comfortable and reliable. Plus it will carry a Myford M Type long bed and stand all the way from Yorkshire to Powys!

I'm about to drop mine on 86,000 because I'm out of the working dog scene and something cheaper to run would be nice. Still got the all electric, singing, dancing, auto box Skoda diesel Octavia so a little runabout would suit.

Eug

 

 

 

Edited By Eugene on 20/06/2016 13:50:26

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Eug's spot on. We'll loose just over 1/2 of the boot space due to the dog cage. Mpg should be similar or a touch better than the X-Type. Performance very similar except for top speed which doesn't concern me. Driving wise the engine is more flexible. The deal is done and dusted now. Good saving but the colour is fine but not the one I liked the most. I'd guess they have a number of the ones with the colour I am getting. Servicing I am told will cost me £80 an hour. That's cheaper than Jaguar's contract rate. The usual service on the X-type is circa £220 but a free MOT was part of the deal. Elsewhere I could get it done for around £140.

Over the years I have had 3 4×4's and one good point for Eug is that there are always plenty of people about who are prepared to buy them even with extremely high mileages and his isn't. I should add that we still have a caravan. The X Type never got fitted with a tow bar. This one probably will be.

Very high mileage cars can be a bit problematic now. At one point oil technology got well ahead of the parts used in cars. It's pretty clear that the manufacturers have fixed that now. I know some one that did manage a major franchise – all were sent on a course to teach them how to explain to people if their pride and joy needed a new gearbox at 60K. Ford have been selling cars for some time where the clutch wont last as long as they did and etc. Brake discs have been thinned down. Some need changing after 2 sets of pads. I believe there are some now where pads and discs may need changing at the same time. The other point of course is that UK driving patterns are a wee bit different to many other places in the world.

Chelsea tractors. It's not a terribly big or heavy car. The footprint is probably a touch less than the X-Type. 4 wheel drive these days only does anything when it needs to and I suspect many people would be surprised by what it can do to handling. Actually this adds a certain amount of safety to well balanced cars because if used to the extreme it would frighten many passengers and I don't usually drive like that – I did on demo and the person in the car with me from the dealers was worried as I approached a bend and went round it well under what the car is capable of. Another dealer with some one more accustomed to them just said you'd have to go a lot faster than that. I was just curious about body roll.

We did have another sort of Chelsea tractor for several years. A used Land Cruiser with an auto box plus over drive. Needed because I often towed a rather large heavy caravan around. People with horse boxes and caravans like this particular one a bigger than usual 4 berth as I'm 6'2" ideally do need a car like that. Compared with a Shogun and an Isuzu it was cheaper to tun as well. The Shogun would have struggled a bit with the van. I did use other cars for daily use while this was going on.

John

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[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Model engineering for the car comes next. Making a new dog cage for it. It'll need 2 8'x4' sheets of 10swg 2" steel mesh. Rather than find some one with TIG this time I think I'll try a mix of bending and stick.

Hope JS approves.

Lots of the dealers tell me that they get plenty of people come in with the have a dog problem.

John

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[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I don't have a dog problem, I just buy it a new van every 7 years or so.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

I like to keep a car as long as possible. The depreciation slows down after a while and then it is just repairs. I think it pays to get low km's at the start then look after it. We had a Volvo 940 series sedan for about 250,000 kms a few repairs as you would expect but nothing bad. we loved that car. Now we have an XC70 cross country. we got it from a Volvo dealer with 17k on the clock now about 35km spent nothing on it apart from service. Those 15k saved a lot of cash. it was 2 years old when we got it. Its a great car. It still looks as new after a bath.

For fun there is a 1999 dame SV8 in the garage, It guzzles fuel but fun for weekend trips. Not recommended for a daily driver unless you like repair bills. We acquired it 2 years ago. Now there is an example of Depreciation. It is scary quick! I love it.

Why buy a new car when you can save a third or more of the cost for an as new model? The dealer should also offer a decent warranty.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 21/06/2016 09:45:20

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Normally I do just what you do John except I prefer low mileage pre registered cars. From the right dealer that saves all of the tax over a new one. Most of the warantee is left and to all intensive purposes it is a new car. Then comes demonstrators but generally these days they have more miles on than they used to. 2 of the cars I have owned came directly from the manufacturer. I've no idea what they used my Passat for but long ago a Chrysler 180 I owned had been used in part of an advert for some brand of chewing gum. Interesting car. I serviced it regularly. Next owner didn't and it fell apart. Lots of people just bought and run at the time and the this car was probably one of the first where this was a really bad idea. I went back to my 2 1/2 year old cars after that one. I changed when I realised that the mileage figures on cars now often aren't correct. There has always been a problem in this area but I feel it has got worse. Much worse actually. A Citroen I owned a few years ago was one of the few that they used to check that the internal tell tail was correct and that the mileage shown in the car had been altered this was happening even while people were running them in order to extend the service interval and retain higher values when the car was eventually sold.

I came to this conclusion some time ago now but doubt if things have changed.

John

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[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well John M – why buy a new car?

Well first it's really nice to have something brand new! – it's nice to get the car in the colour, trim and built to just the specification you want and it's nice to have the assurance that any problems will be sorted during the warrantee period and ( for a while) it's an incentive to keep it clean! I've done it a couple of times. (Buy new I mean – not keep it clean a couple of times!)

We live out in the sticks with no public transport so a reliable car is essential. I'm getting on a bit now and my last purchase ( last year) was a new car – it's done, I like the car and I intend to keep it until we need to move into the town.

Economically, however, I agree it makes little sense – but hey when did economy and car ownership ever go together!

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 21/06/2016 11:02:02

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Many years ago, financial necessities, young family, mortgage etc dictated that we could only use s/h cars. Between 1971 and 1998 we used VW (Beetle & Variant), 2 Maxis and then a Montego estate. All of these cars were bought at about 4 years old and run until they were 10 years old. We used to go camping, and then with one of the Maxis started caravanning. All of these cars did what they were supposed to do, reasonably reliably and I suppose reasonably economically for the time. Thinking back, the only major failures I had were a failed footbrake (Variant), failed alternator and broken wiring due to removing/replacing said alternator (Maxi), broken accelerator cable (Maxi), faulty fuel pump (Montego) and a failed cambelt (Montego). Most of these were self diagnosed and self repaired. Only the fanbelt failure required towing home.

In 1998 with better finances, we bought a 1996 Peugeot 405 diesel estate. This car lasted a further 10 years, In that period we had various problems, none of which required breakdown recovery. These were things like cylinder head porous, read drums hard glazed, etc, ie problems due to age and high mileage. This car did 130K miles (37K to 160K+) and averaged 42.5mpg. Tyre life was 18K/29K front on Pirelli/Michelin & 29K/>45K rear on Pirelli/Michelin.

We then bought a Ford Focus 1.8 diesel estate. Again 2 years old. This car was, frankly, an utter disaster – fuel filter collapse at 30K, clutch failure at 56K, engine failure at 59K, some sort of sensor failure in the 60/70K range, and utterly appalling tyre life – 15K front & rear on Michelins. Plus other minor problems. It achieved 46.5mpg. Do you wonder that I won't touch Fords again?

In 2013 we bought a new Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol estate. So far, 44K miles, we haven't had any problems. Tyre life is about 30K front & rear & economy is 38-39mpg.

All these last three cars have done exactly the same work – the same drivers, the same journeys, towed the same caravan. It shows that the petrol Avensis is almost as good as the two previous diesels. Further it shows the Focus to an absolutely atrocious car, ok, maybe we were unlucky but the fact that the cars either side were/are that much better under the same conditions rather proves the point.

I would also suggest that it is not absolutely necessary to use a large SUV type vehicle for caravan towing. All three cars have coped admirably with a caravan with a MGW of 1085kg, and I believe that the Avensis can actually tow up to 1500kg, not that I've any intention of so doing. It is my belief that a lot of people use these bigger vehicles without analysing what it is that they actually need. For example, we do about 13K per annum, of which, if we are lucky, we might do 1.5K towing. So do we actually need that extra performance that a large engined SUV type vehicle gives when for most of the time it won't be used? Of course, if you are towing very heavy trailers, then that's a different thing.

The real irony of the above is that when we bought the Ford, it was because we thought that spares might be cheaper than buying Japanese. Never in a month of Sundays would we have expected to end up paying out almost as much in spares over a 4 year period than we paid when we bought it.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I towed our first caravan with a car Peter. Smaller older and because of the age a pretty light 4 berth. We changed to a more modern on that was larger and newer and because of the materials used for the "woodwork" rather heavier as well. Not helped by my wife who likes to load it up with all sorts. At this point I bought an old petrol Shogun. Much better. The Shogun had it's problems so switched to a 3L petrol swb Isuzu Trooper and later to an even heavier caravan. One of the wider than normal ones as the bed was across and easier to set up etc and we went out in the caravan as often as we could. Of the 4×4 I've owned I'd say the Trooper was the best. It would give circa 30mpg motorway driving etc and not much less with normal driving. It went down to 10 or 12 towing. We then had the opportunity to buy a dealers own Land Cruiser and went for it, good px etc but one of the main reasons was that it had 4 doors.The 2 on the trouper was a pain at times. The Land Cruiser was diesel. Mid 20's driving around and a touch under 20 towing. I had noticed this before. Diesels seem to be more efficient when towing. The downside of the land cruiser was travelling around. We don't sit on the beach but get out and about. This may mean driving fair distances in something of a hurry. That really is hard work for the driver in a Land Cruiser. As far as towing goes a heavy well loaded caravan on the back is hardly noticeable. When ever we holiday we always get out and about so how a car drives is important to me.

Next my soon to be purchased big heavy 4×4. Fact, the curb weight is extremely close to the X Type and many other cars. Circa 1.5 tonne. The model I am having ups this a bit, around 50kg I think but sub 100kg. Engine size and power 2L 148bhp. Less than the X type which is 2.2L 150HP. Size wise I think the new one is shorter than the X-Type. It wont be much though. Even 3 row 4×4's are often a very similar size to estates similar to the X Type. A Peugeot 308 may be a bit shorter. CO2 is one band up on the X-Type but that isn't always the case on cars like this. It's an interesting point that the engine is more flexible than the X-Type. That may mean in real terms that it puts out less of the stuff. A problem with legislation. The manufacturers go to the ends of the earth to obtain the figures and the test methods used do not relate to normal driving. They can't really.

Last thing is power. 150bhp partly benefits from 4 wheel drive because driven firmly the front tyres will wear pretty rapidly. It needs a lot of care to avoid that. Of late there are now a number of 2L cars of various types offering 180bhp. All that I am aware of have 4 wheel drive. At 150bhp it's sometimes an option. While I don't need it 4 wheel drive it will probably save me money. Not sure what the local tyre dealer will charge for swapping tyres round though. The new designs of 4 wheel drive are likely to need this. The older ones where it could be selected didn't really need it. These days they suggest front – rear change overs every 10k. Unlike permanent 4 wheel drive there doesn't seem to be any significant fuel consumption differences with the newer designs. To be honest I would NOT (edit) buy an old style permanent 4 wheel drive car because of this. Or old style auto's either but even those have changed now.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 21/06/2016 13:47:18

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

John,

Other than the Beetle, which was before children, I've never had a 2 door car.

I've often looked at 4 wheel drive options, but always come to the conclusion that I don't have the work for one. And on the two occasions when it may have been useful, I managed to get out by using a modicum of care plus a load of seat pants sensations, ie feel for the slip & control the loud pedal accordingly. Or by using a different route.

I don't know, ie can't remember, what the earlier car power ratings were, but the present Avensis is 140bhp at 4500rpm. (Ok, I know this might be torque or whatever, but I don't really care.) Unfortunately, this equates, as far as I can tell, to 124mph in 6th, 90+ in 5th, and so on down to about 50 in 2nd. Which does mean that when towing, a modicum of road reading is required along with suitable gear box stirring, ie 60 on the flat in 6th is fine, but even a gentle incline requires a block shift into 4th before the incline starts. Of course, it depends on the incline – sometimes momentum and /or 5th is ok. Generally speaking, I don't find it anything of a chore to change gear with this car – it's perhaps one of the easiest I've ever driven. Furthermore, I have been pleasantly surprised just how good this car is. It did take 25K before it started running properly, but 2nd up a 30% hill (solo by the way)? No other car has done that. I was worried when I bought it about its towing ability, after all, its only a 1.8 petrol, but not now. Frankly, it's just as good as either of the diesels, and surprisingly, on the last holiday we had, the mpg actually improved over previous trips to the same destination. Generally speaking, motorway towing mpg appears to be around 25 -27mpg regardless of the car whereas so-called cross-country, ie slow A roads even with hills, can achieve into the low 30's.

I do agree with your comment about newer caravans being heavier, although it is still possible to find a caravan which is only 200kgs or there abouts heavier than our existing one and which in some respects is "better". But again, what do "people" actually need, as distinct from want. To take just one example – microwaves. A lot of modern caravans seem to have them fitted, but in 35 years of caravanning, we've never felt the need for one, so for us a microwave is inessential and yet it's contributing to excess weight.

I think a lot of this boils down to people "wanting the earth" and not really thinking things through as to what they actually need. Not helped by manufacturers either.

There is one aspect of having a larger, heavier vehicle over a smaller vehicle, and that is the question of snaking. The heavier vehicle being better. Having said that, my limited experience of snaking was that if experienced, reducing the speed was a satisfactory method of control. And whilst it will increase journey times, is it really that important to shave half an hour off a journey? We, especially now that we are knocking on a bit, take our time, stopping for breaks every hour to hour and a half. Which causes various comments from our children along the lines of slow old fogies. But does it matter?

Just one final thought. I mentioned above that my car on paper at least is capable of 124mph which equates to maximum power of 140bhp at 4500rpm. In fact, taking those figures, I can only legally use maximum power up to 3rd gear in this country, as 4th and above exceed 70mph. Which begs the question of why do manufacturers produce these vehicles when they can't be used to their full potential? Is it a case of just because they can?

Just saying, that's all.

Peter G. Shaw

[Author]

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