Microsoft broke my computer

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

Sad to reflect that the whole Post Office software debacle arose out of the premise that software is error free and engineers don’t put in back door access paths. The defence lawyers in the original cases should have been shouting “look at Microsoft”.

Nothing to do with Microsoft. Big commercial databases have different levels of access not controlled by Microsoft. There are Users and Administrators and people in between. I’ve worked as a database Admin on systems with 25 million recs and I could do anything I wanted, change anything I wanted with no audit trail. Back door makes it sound mysterious! It’s the everyday life of an Admin.

 

[old mart]

On old mart Said:

Linux Ubuntu and Mint are similar to Windows to use, but I got tangled up with the multitude of security features they seem to require. …

Almost for sure a learner problem.  Linux security is rather simpler at user level than Windows.  I guess old mart bumped into Linux being a bit different, it is, and didn’t have the time to sort it out.

Windows users are often amazed by how slickly Linux handles OS upgrades: almost no fuss!  Unlike Windows where multiple reboots are usually required, most Linux upgrades are just done without impacting the user.  And they are always voluntary!

And once you know how, finding and loading applications is mostly rather easy.   Except Linux also supports advanced upgrading such as compiling from source, and jumping ahead by loading development versions rather than the supported version.  The existence of advanced features can be confusing.   Mostly though, Linux from the desktop, does much the same as Windows, except it’s organised a bit differently, and not all Windows apps work.   The alternatives do – LibreOffice is as featured as MS-Office, and very similar in operation.

I think the best thing about Linux is that it can be tried painlessly, and without modifying the computer. Try it and see.

Takes a while to get used to Linux so don’t switch in the belief that it’s identical to Windows and/or can be learned in 10 minutes.   Effort required and not worth it if you’re stuck with Microsoft because all your software is Windows only!

Dave

 

 

[peterhod]

On peterhod Said:

On Bazyle Said:

Sad to reflect that the whole Post Office software debacle arose out of the premise that software is error free and engineers don’t put in back door access paths. The defence lawyers in the original cases should have been shouting “look at Microsoft”.

Nothing to do with Microsoft. Big commercial databases have different levels of access not controlled by Microsoft. There are Users and Administrators and people in between. I’ve worked as a database Admin on systems with 25 million recs and I could do anything I wanted, change anything I wanted with no audit trail. Back door makes it sound mysterious! It’s the everyday life of an Admin.

 

Absolutely correct.  The easiest way to hack a computer has always been to bribe or blackmail an administrator.

Bazyle used the word ‘premise’, in my opinion a better word would be ‘lie’.   This is a shocking case of corporate dishonesty involving two large companies and poor oversight of the Post Office by the owner, who happened to be the government. Persistent lies at all levels, and allowed to endure by negligence.   Still going on – I’m amazed the courts aren’t busy prosecuting those responsible.

Dave

 

 

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

 

Now working on an ancient laptop with Mint 18. Hoping to join a zoom call soon, the install of Zoom to Linux was pain free, no mantras Hoping to get Mint on PC this evening, Ill report back

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

but zoom didnt work!

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On old mart Said:

Linux Ubuntu and Mint are similar to Windows to use, but I got tangled up with the multitude of security features they seem to require. …

 

I think the best thing about Linux is that it can be tried painlessly, and without modifying the computer. Try it and see.

 

I did read (but cannot find) that there is version of Mint that be run from a USB stick without actually installing.

 

Takes a while to get used to Linux so don’t switch in the belief that it’s identical to Windows and/or can be learned in 10 minutes.   Effort required and not worth it if you’re stuck with Microsoft because all your software is Windows only!

 

Dave

Have a spare mini PC I decided to put Linux on it so went to Linux org website (on my normal PC) and out of the 20 or so versions offered chose Mint which I downloaded to a USB stick, all very straightforward. However the next step/s to make the USB stick bootable, verify that the iso file is signed and is authentic, start to get confusing. If the user is already running Mint then there are just a a few simple commands, for a Windows PC however it gives somewhat confusing details of files to download and run, which on first glance are run from the command line.

Tonight I will take my time and see if I can make the file bootable but my first impressions is that the first few stages of a Mint installation could have been better set out, yes, I am a grumpy old man but I am really hoping to be a Linux convertee.

This page is off-putting to a newcomer

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/verify.html

 

Ian P

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Well worth persevering with the verify. It’s all to easy to end up with a non-legitimate version that has been ‘modified’ for nefarious purposes. You won’t know until it’s to late.

Mike

 

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

This may help link  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3G2U2Fujk    How to Verify a Linux Mint ISO: Integrity and Authenticity Checks

H

[Mike Hurley]

On Mike Hurley Said:

Well worth persevering with the verify. It’s all to easy to end up with a non-legitimate version that has been ‘modified’ for nefarious purposes. You won’t know until it’s to late.

Mike

 

I’ve just watched the video and WOW what a lot of steps to follow, also the presentation is a bit quick. I am sure that once a person has done it the first time it will all make sense. Still have to do the make bootable bit afterwards.

In my ignorance I assumed that if I downloaded from a source on the Linuxmint website it would be legitimate….

Ian P

 

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I’ve never bothered with all that checksum stuff – it would catch a download that has been damaged in some way, perhaps due to an iffy internet connection*, and might waste some of your time before the install halts, but I’ve only ever seen the download fail, with appropriate warning message.

As for nefarious modification – who’s going to bother with a relatively obscure OS? Get it from the distro official website and you’ll be fine.

 

*Downloading by torrent is probably a bit safer from that point of view.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Well that didn’t go too well, the Debian installer recognised that I have 2 hard drives, but refused point blank to ‘mount’ (whatever that means) anything. The chap who was doing it is a computer whizz, but doesn’t have anything to do with windows. He suspects that Mr Gates has done something to the discs to prevent putting Linux on.

Good news tho, when we abandoned the attempt and exited bios, it booted up in windows, said if had done a system restore (didn’t tell it to) and is now working again, albeit in low resolution mode. #2 son is sorting me out a new PC.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Ian there a a few linux ditros that have a look and feel Elementary is one Deepin another then the one my friend raves about Zorin I belive this has a Windows mode. I myself settled on Linux Mint back in covid when I tried a few out of boredom OK I still have a Windows laptop mainly due to the software I use to maintain my club website is Windows based and if I’m truthful I still like to use PaintShop Pro for the images I use on said website. One benefit of linux is that it runs well on older pc’s so if you have one laying around give it a spin,I was 77 when I moved to Linux so no young wizkid I found is I got stuck there was Google and Linux Mint forum I’m also with Andy I’ve not bothered with the checksum stuff but I’m not suggesting folks follow suit.

I have Mint and Zorin running of a drive in a caddy bit slow but I wanted to prove to a friend it could be done hope this been helpful

H

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I too have not had great success

As Andy suggested I skipped the verification and following the Mint website instructions downloaded and used BalenaEtcher to put the ISO file on a USB stick.

Put the stick in my old PC but it kept booting into Windows 7 (Bios set to boot first from USB) so looked at USB stick and found that whilst Etcher had created two folders (Boot and EFI) each had a few small files but no large files anywhere (ISO is about 3GB)

Might try again tomorrow.

Ian P

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Sorry to see Ian and Duncan having problems.   It’s the law: nothing is ever easy!

Duncan mentioned ‘mount’,   Jolly useful for admins and rarely comes to the notice of users unless something is wrong.   Can’t think of a good reason why a Mint installer should fail to mount discs. ‘mount’ is low-level hardware stuff, not something Microsoft can mess with.  Possibly a BIOS setting, dunno!

mount is how UNIX adds physical storage to the system, and though the jargon and method is different Windows have an equivalent.

For historic reasons, Windows ‘mounts’ discs & USB memory etc as a drive labelled A: B: C:  etc.  As early PCs came with two floppy disc drives, these were always labelled A: and B:    When hard-drives came along, they were allocated to C:, with CD-ROMs allocated further down the alphabet.   Today, even though computers rarely have floppy drives, C: is still the hard-drive (or SSD), from which Windows normally boots.    A serious flaw in this system is that early Windows could only physically attach 26 hard-drives, making the OS a poor choice for server work.   Microsoft fixed the limitation years ago.  I don’t recommend trying to understand how unless it’s your job.

UNIX took a different approach.   Physical storage is ‘mounted’ on an ordinary directory (folder).    The first drive is always mounted on / as the root.   There is no limit to the number of drives that can be added, and the structure can be as complicated as required – discs mounted on other discs in a chain, for example.    mount also allows different filesystems to be added, such as plugging in a USB memory stick normally starts a process that ends by mounting the stick as a folder in /dev/media, from where any program can read/write to it.    (Permissions apart)

Running ‘mount’ on the command line shows my Ubuntu has 107 storage devices attached.   Most of them are small filesystems  temporarily in RAM for performance.   The big boys are:

/dev/nvme0n1p5 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)

This is a partition on my SSD, mounted on / allowing read-write.  In the event of an error, this disc is mounted read-only, so the problem can be debugged.   It contains Linux.

/dev/nvme0n1p1 on /boot/efi type vfat(rw,relatime,fmask=0077,dmask=0077,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro)

This is another partition on the SSD that contains Windows.  Although Linux has read-write access to the entire Windows file-system, I don’t recommend writing to it routinely.    Microsoft are secretive about how their file-system works, and have been known to change it without telling anyone.  Reading is safe.

/dev/nvme1n1p1 on /home type ext4 (rw,relatime)

Yet another SSD partition, it contains LInux user files.

/dev/sda2 on /home/dave/BackupOnly type ext4 (rw,relatime)
/dev/sda1 on /home/dave/Pictures type ext4 (rw,relatime)

These two are a magnetic hard-drive, mounted as two separate partitions.   sda2 stores backups.   sda1 stores video, photos and other bulky files where fast read-write isn’t required, and I don’t want them cluttering up my SSD.  Note the magnetic drive extends my particular users disc space by being mounted in /home/dave on the SSD.

All being well ordinary users never have to worry about mount, or the Windows equivalent, because both are either set up automatically or by an admin.   Rarely goes wrong, but can get nasty if it does; might even have to RTFM!

Do you dismantle car engines for fun or only drive to the shops?  Another plus for Linux is being good for anyone who wants to learn about how computers and operating systems work rather just being an application user.   Buy a RaspberryPi and play with it’s internals!  If the poor thing gets bricked, order is easily restored by replacing the ISO.  Replacing a broken Windows or Linux OS on a main computer full of real work is harder! Best not to mess with a main system OS or it’s filesystem unless you know what’s what.

Dave

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

but zoom didnt work!

I only use zoom occasionally, so never bothered trying to install it on my Linux PCs

I am using it in the browser (Firefox in my case).

Works fine and is OS agnostic.

[Harry Wilkes]

On Harry Wilkes Said:

This may help link  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3G2U2Fujk    How to Verify a Linux Mint ISO: Integrity and Authenticity Checks

H

some Linux distributions are kinder on the beginner

When booting my bootable usb stick to either run, try or install there is an option to:

Verify ISO burned on the stick – you don’t even have to know how or why 🙂

The only sticky moment afterwards was sorting out partitions etc but even there, there is a helping hand that can do it for you.

 

I sympathise with someone un-familiar being faced with all the choices and questions he/she has to answer when installing OS,

but I am sure it is the same for any OS?

(unless you bought your Windows machine with it pre-installed?)

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

I too have not had great success

As Andy suggested I skipped the verification and following the Mint website instructions downloaded and used BalenaEtcher to put the ISO file on a USB stick.

Put the stick in my old PC but it kept booting into Windows 7 (Bios set to boot first from USB) so looked at USB stick and found that whilst Etcher had created two folders (Boot and EFI) each had a few small files but no large files anywhere (ISO is about 3GB)

Might try again tomorrow.

Ian P

 

Ian on my one laptop like you a USB is the first boot but what I have found is if I plug in the USB stick and choose ‘restart’ it’s hit and miss as to what it will boot into but if I shut my laptop down wait until all the lights have gone out etc then restart the laptop it will more than often boot from the USB stick

Hope this helps

H

[Harry Wilkes]

On Harry Wilkes Said:

On Ian P Said:

I too have not had great success

As Andy suggested I skipped the verification and following the Mint website instructions downloaded and used BalenaEtcher to put the ISO file on a USB stick.

Put the stick in my old PC but it kept booting into Windows 7 (Bios set to boot first from USB) so looked at USB stick and found that whilst Etcher had created two folders (Boot and EFI) each had a few small files but no large files anywhere (ISO is about 3GB)

Might try again tomorrow.

Ian P

 

Ian on my one laptop like you a USB is the first boot but what I have found is if I plug in the USB stick and choose ‘restart’ it’s hit and miss as to what it will boot into but if I shut my laptop down wait until all the lights have gone out etc then restart the laptop it will more than often boot from the USB stick

Hope this helps

H

It ‘might’ help when I get to the stage of knowing that I have managed to actually burn the ISO file on a bootable USB stick. Etcher either abandons the writing part way through or it says the file might be corrupt (I’ve not succeeded in verifying it yet).

Not directly relevant because I’m trying to burn to USB device but the first sentence of this (CD) warning is rather confusing to a Linux newbie. How would one separate the file contents from the file itself?

 

I might change tack and skip the USB method of trying Mint, I might just wipe the PC and do a full install.

Ian P

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On peterhod Said:

On Bazyle Said:

Sad to reflect that the whole Post Office software debacle arose out of the premise that software is error free and engineers don’t put in back door access paths. The defence lawyers in the original cases should have been shouting “look at Microsoft”.

Nothing to do with Microsoft. Big commercial databases have different levels of access not controlled by Microsoft. There are Users and Administrators and people in between. I’ve worked as a database Admin on systems with 25 million recs and I could do anything I wanted, change anything I wanted with no audit trail. Back door makes it sound mysterious! It’s the everyday life of an Admin.

 

Absolutely correct.  The easiest way to hack a computer has always been to bribe or blackmail an administrator.

Bazyle used the word ‘premise’, in my opinion a better word would be ‘lie’.   This is a shocking case of corporate dishonesty involving two large companies and poor oversight of the Post Office by the owner, who happened to be the government. Persistent lies at all levels, and allowed to endure by negligence.   Still going on – I’m amazed the courts aren’t busy prosecuting those responsible.

Dave

 

 

When organisations talk about security they usually concentrate on external dangers ignoring ‘the enemy within’. When I worked in industry I saw private and confidential information every day. I have never been nosey and I saw it but never saw it if you know what I mean!

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said

Not directly relevant because I’m trying to burn to USB device but the first sentence of this (CD) warning is rather confusing to a Linux newbie. How would one separate the file contents from the file itself?

 

I might change tack and skip the USB method of trying Mint, I might just wipe the PC and do a full install.

Ian P

What they mean is, don’t copy and paste or drag the ISO file onto the DVD – that will just make a copy and your computer won’t recognise it as something it can boot. You want a disc image which will contain the stuff to make it bootable – if you use ‘Burn Disc image’, it will set all this up for you.

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

On Harry Wilkes Said:

On Ian P Said:

I too have not had great success

As Andy suggested I skipped the verification and following the Mint website instructions downloaded and used BalenaEtcher to put the ISO file on a USB stick.

Put the stick in my old PC but it kept booting into Windows 7 (Bios set to boot first from USB) so looked at USB stick and found that whilst Etcher had created two folders (Boot and EFI) each had a few small files but no large files anywhere (ISO is about 3GB)

Might try again tomorrow.

Ian P

 

Ian on my one laptop like you a USB is the first boot but what I have found is if I plug in the USB stick and choose ‘restart’ it’s hit and miss as to what it will boot into but if I shut my laptop down wait until all the lights have gone out etc then restart the laptop it will more than often boot from the USB stick

Hope this helps

H

It ‘might’ help when I get to the stage of knowing that I have managed to actually burn the ISO file on a bootable USB stick. Etcher either abandons the writing part way through or it says the file might be corrupt (I’ve not succeeded in verifying it yet).

Not directly relevant because I’m trying to burn to USB device but the first sentence of this (CD) warning is rather confusing to a Linux newbie. How would one separate the file contents from the file itself?

 

I might change tack and skip the USB method of trying Mint, I might just wipe the PC and do a full install.

Ian P

Ian never done a bookable CD , can’t help there get your self a USB stick that has not been used or use one that’s been formatted and give it another go. You will need a bootable USB or CD in order to install Linux Mint and if your still stuck PM me and I’ll put you a USB stick in the post.

Cheers

H

[Harry Wilkes]

On Harry Wilkes Said:

 

Ian never done a bookable CD , can’t help there get your self a USB stick that has not been used or use one that’s been formatted and give it another go. You will need a bootable USB or CD in order to install Linux Mint and if your still stuck PM me and I’ll put you a USB stick in the post.

Cheers

H

I meant bootable DVD not CD.

Thanks for your very kind offer, I do have a couple of USB memory sticks but I have not yet managed to make one bootable.

Ian P

[Author]

Posts