Microsoft broke my computer

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

Another way of looking at Linux is when you hire a car or get a loan car from a garage they usually give you the keys and leave you to it, leaving you to find out how the function controls are and which way to press, pull, turn.   Petrol, diesel, electric, steam powered.

You usually manage fine.

Linux v Windoze arguments seem to be like many hobby clubs having the attitude  “We tried it once 10 years ago and we didn’t like it so it must be still the rubbish”

Be Outrageous, Live Dangerously.   You might like it

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well MS wanted to do an update on my W10 machine when I went to switclast off tonight. Did not do what it usually does and took a while but here I am again this morning so I’ll be sticking with Windows & MS

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

As a user who has been using computers since before PCs never mind Windows I’m still a bit wary about moving to Linux. Yes I have a box with a modern distro on it and do a little bit with Raspberry Pis but that is all for very specific tasks. Apart from choosing the “best” variant, I have two issues. One is that I’m forced to use Windows for work so will be swiching between the two OS’s and applications. I find that a pain.
Second is getting some specific programs to run. These are typically linked to dedicated hardware for example a USB osciloscope. Even when a Linux version of the application is available it typically has fewer features and support.
Using a windows emulator on Linux seems like a strange approach.
I do have  hardware “dual boot” (HDD Dock in fromt panel) that I currently use for some kit that needs Win XP So I may make up a MINT disk and use it for a bit.

Robert.

[Chris Kaminski]

On Chris Kaminski Said:

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

Linux is all very well if you really understand computers and operating-systems,

Have you actually tried it?

or…. do you just believe it?

 

Can I just fit a new hard drive with Linux installed, turn on the machine, install all the various programs I’ve collected and start using them immediately?

 

If any of those answers are no, I’m not interested. Computers are frustrating enough as it without extra work

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

Hi

 

I’m retired now but worked in computer consultancy for 25 years. On one site I ran Linux servers with 800,000 documents. The primary server synced to another server every few minutes so that the business continued to run on the second machine if the first went off line. In addition this and all other systems (database servers etc) backed up onto another Linux server.

The performance was stunning, I had one machine running 24/7 for 10 years with no down time.

Linux was great for servers but in my opinion no good for the desktop. It’s not plug and play like windows and if things go wrong information is hard to find.

Windows 11 is fine. It trashed my old PC unfortunately during an update. That machine was from 2010 but still fine for my everyday use. It was state of the art in 2010. I was very annoyed at the time. However I saw a guy selling used computers on Facebook Market Place and one was a high spec 3 year old I7 with Win11 Professional licence which I bought for only £65 seen working. I put it into a bigger case added a big SSD and it’s brilliant. Fast and reliable.

If you want a beast of a machine there are bargain Xeon Processor machines for sale for peanuts.

 

Pete

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

So Micro$oft … What’s occurring here ?

My ageing Dell Optiplex has been sleeping for a couple of weeks, with the LAN cable disconnected.

Woke it up this morning and saw this:

.

.

Which I considered incredible in the circumstances !

So I viewed the update history:

.

.

In the light of recent postings, the reports are surely mutually exclusive.

 

I will leave the forum pondering that, whilst I reconnect the LAN and potentially brick the machine.

MichaelG.

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

As if by magic:

.

.

Mmm

MichaelG.

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

I’ve had the “update ready”  warning for the last couple of days, every time I put the PC to sleep it’s there. I have auto updates disabled but eventually it updates it regardless. Seeing this thread I made another attempt to disable it.

I spotted a way to apparently stop it permanently and I just looked and the update warning has gone, it’s stopped it for now but somehow I think it will override it.  Windows key plus R, type services.msc,  then scroll down to windows update, disable then go to properties and select disable

 

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

If you had Win 10 19 version or earlier support stopped last July. For some reason 19 will not update to 22 under any circumstances even though I get a screen just like yours any update fails to install.

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I elected to  the computer at approximately 10:40

… at 11:20 the job appears to have finally been done.

Having signed back in I have the “Let’s get you backed up now” message

… but I am opting out of that.

… which then, predictably enough, took me to “Backup is recommended”

… Skip for now was my choice

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Whilst we’re here … Could some kind soul please tell me how to put a direct shortcut  to ‘Device Manager’ on my Win10 desktop ?

I don’t want to go clicking through a cascade of menus just to reach the single most important window.

MichaelG.

[Nick Wheeler]

On Nick Wheeler Said:

On Chris Kaminski Said:

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

Linux is all very well if you really understand computers and operating-systems,

Have you actually tried it?

or…. do you just believe it?

 

Can I just fit a new hard drive with Linux installed, turn on the machine, install all the various programs I’ve collected and start using them immediately?

 

If any of those answers are no, I’m not interested. Computers are frustrating enough as it without extra work

The answer is NO, not even when moving from one version of Windows to another!   It’s why we’re discussing Windows 11 where it seems Microsoft are forcing W10 users to upgrade, including buying new hardware, whether they like it or not.  The notion that Windows is a cosy unchanging environment may be wrong.  They want your dosh.

Linux is one alternative; various pros and cons, one con being it is not a Windows clone.   Other alternatives include staying with Windows 10 on an old computer that’s not connected to the internet, or burrowing into it’s guts to disable updates.  It’s all extra work.

Not being required to make a commercial profit means Linux users aren’t duffed up by firms looking for new ways to make money. Linux is also more secure than Windows, and runs most ordinary applications, including many Windows apps.  Programmers like it because it has a full-featured development environment, and it’s also good for hosting services.

But Nick is right to approach with caution. Users who don’t have the time or inclination shouldn’t switch to Linux on a whim – they will have to learn new tricks.   On the other hand, keep an eye on Windows 11, looks very much as if in closing down Windows 10 is being used to lever change.  One saving grace is that Microsoft have tried similar tactics in the past and come badly unstuck in the courts, huge fines.   The US and EU both have strong anti-trust, anti-monopoly and fair trade requirements, which have protected customers in the past.   At the moment storm clouds on the horizon, could be heading your way…

Dave

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Michael –

I forget what WIN-10 showed on my PC but if it has a blue “Windows” symbol on the task-bar, does right-clicking it open the management menu that includes Device Manager? Not direct but still only one extra click.

Or the Windows key on the keyboard?

Neither goes directly to DM but are not far away. I don’t know if having reached it you can make a short-cut for it.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Sad to reflect that the whole Post Office software debacle arose out of the premise that software is error free and engineers don’t put in back door access paths. The defence lawyers in the original cases should have been shouting “look at Microsoft”.

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

[…] Neither goes directly to DM but are not far away. I don’t know if having reached it you can make a short-cut for it.

Thanks, Nigel … but that’s the whole point of my question

I can’t make a short-cut

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

My guru has offered Linux debian. I’ve previously used Mint on my laptop (which I’ve now found secreted in a clothes drawer). I found mint easy to use, any one care to comment on how easy debian is to use?

[Chris KaminskiParticipant @chriskaminski64716]

I am using Linux MX (debian based) – solid reliable and great performer.

As easy to use and polished as any other major Linux desktop distro.

None of them bleeding edge… so more stable (less risk)

I have used Mint quite some time in the past – no problem with it either.

Both MX and Mint have very good forums.

How much are you likely to depend on your “guru”?

If a lot than stick with what he/she recommends – easier for him/her.

 

Otherwise it doesn’t matter – you have to start with something.

Once you are more familiar you can do “distro hopping” 🙂 yourself

 

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

My guru has offered Linux debian. I’ve previously used Mint on my laptop (which I’ve now found secreted in a clothes drawer). I found mint easy to use, any one care to comment on how easy debian is to use?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

A point about Linux, it doesn’t manage the Graphical User Interface in the same way as Windows, and many coming from the dark side find that very confusing.  Linux can be:

• Configured without a GUI at all, making it possible to fit a multi-user multi-tasking operating system into less than 30Mb.   Great for anything embedded: internet router, ethernet switches, wifi extenders, media servers, DRO, oscilloscopes etc.   For these applications a GUI is a waste of space and processor power.   The user interface is probably a web-page, or a console login only used to configure the thing.
• Configured with any of several GUIs, ranging from lightweight to advanced.  Experiment is allowed.  In contrast Windows comes with only one GUI that’s built-in, and can’t be removed.  It is what it is, and the user can’t change much.   The advantage is ordinary users all get the same thing.

Problem for Microsoft is that their approach only suits customers who dislike change!  Doesn’t help the chaps who are delivering next generation computing.   Failing to keep them happy means Windows isn’t popular in embedded systems, super-computers, or smart phones and tablets.   As smart phones and tablets far outsell laptops and desktops, Microsoft are feeling the cold: billions of dollars not coming their way.  And Linux and Mac are nibbling at laptops and desktops too.   Looks like Microsoft’s strategy is to hook into laptops and desktops with AI capability, so don’t expect W11 to stay the same.  All change!   And if everything is changing, review all the options.

To answer Duncan’s question, Debian is the mother of a family of Linux distros. Three main ones:

• Debian is the core.  Main objective is stability, not look and feel, so the GUI is rather basic and plain.  It all works, but rather conservatively and many users prefer more modern behaviour.  Others get used to the vanilla flavour and prefer it.
• Ubuntu is based on Debian, but with many modernisations.   Friendlier package management system(s), better organised GUI, jazzier look and feel, and more likely to incorporate application updates before Debian.   Not quite as stable as Debian, but the Long Term Support releases are very solid.
• Mint is based on Ubuntu, with the same benefits.  The most obvious difference is the GUI, because Mint deliberately imitates Windows look and feel, which many brought up on Windows prefer.   I tend to see the look and feel as a comfort blanket because Mint isn’t Windows.  No registry, the API is different, you can’t just load Windows apps etc.  Not sure what the latest position is, but Mint was more popular than Ubuntu at one time.  After using Mint for a while it becomes apparent that it’s roots are Ubuntu, not Windows.
• Raspian (Raspberry Pi) is another debian spin-off.  Not quite like Ubuntu or Mint!  These are small computer variants.  Interestingly, every new Pi that’s released gets closer to laptop performance, and there are a bunch of similar small Linux systems eating into Microsoft sales.

My professional experience started with mainframe OS, then minicomputers, where I recommended standardising of SystemV UNIX, later POSIX compliance.   Lots of fun with early 8-bit microcomputers long before Bill Gates existed, including CP/M on a machine almost identical to the later IBM PC.  IBM didn’t invent the PC!  Likewise, early GUI, mostly X-Windows, running on very expensive UNIX workstations.   The software existed, but few could afford the computers needed to run it.  Had affordable hardware been available, Microsoft wouldn’t exist, but for several years the cheapest way to get personal computing was a PC with very basic graphics.  By the time the hardware was sufficiently cheap, X-Windows had lost ground, because millions of users had bought into Microsoft, and it would cost a fortune to retrain them!   But all the early CAD and media editing was done on X, not Microsoft.   As always time marches on:  Apple switched to a UNIX, and Windows-NT is remarkably UNIX-like under the bonnet.  Now the hardware in even a cheap domestic computer can run any of the operating systems.   And odd things happen, like finding Windows 7 ran faster on a virtual machine hosted by Linux than it did on the bare metal: weird!

Then and now in my opinion, its not really about the technology, more about how well the OS and hardware match human needs: money, training etc.  In my case today 90% is met by Ubuntu, so I have no trouble with Raspian. Though very out of practice as a developer and slipping I’m reasonably fluent in Windows technology, and fairly familiar with macOS too.  I see more similarities than differences!

My advice is adopt whatever best suits your needs.  With one caveat! Being an unthinking fanboy is a damned bad reason for supporting an operating system, as is allowing oneself to become locked in by reluctance to adapt.  To me the O/S is just another tool, good enough if it works, change if if doesn’t.  Don’t expect Microsoft to keep everything the same; they’re on the move.

Dave

 

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

To add to what Dave said above, the Linux distro doesn’t really matter in terms of the basic user experience – it’s all about the Desktop (that’s the GUI in LInux-land*). If you want something that’s similar-ish to Win7, then the KDE desktop is probably about the nearest. There are others which are more Mac-like (there was one which was very Mac-like and after various threats, Apple, it is said, made the developers an offer they couldn’t refuse). Some are like nothing else. You can easily try any you fancy.

Some desktops are customised for a particular distro – I use OpenSUSE running its own version of KDE, and that has various bells and whistles that the standard offering doesn’t. Doubtless if you’re determined enough you could do that kind of customisation for the standard offering on Ubuntu or whatever.

 

*I’m simplifying a bit here to avoid needless confusion

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Michael

Right click on an empty area of your desktop and select New, then Shortcut

In the box type devmgmt.msc

Click Next

Name it Device Manager

Click Finish

You should then have a shortcut on your desktop that will take you directly to Device Manager

Rob

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Linux Ubuntu and Mint are similar to Windows to use, but I got tangled up with the multitude of security features they seem to require. I use W11 all the time and ignor the frequent “helpful” additions offered, which are mostly gimmicks. I never allow passwords and the like to be remembered by the computer, even though I use up to 25 charactor ones all the time.

[Grindstone Cowboy]

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

Michael

Right click on an empty area of your desktop and select New, then Shortcut

In the box type devmgmt.msc

Click Next

Name it Device Manager

Click Finish

You should then have a shortcut on your desktop that will take you directly to Device Manager

Rob

Brilliant, Rob … Thank You

I knew it must be easy when you know how !

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ ‘tis done, and I am much happier

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thankyou Rob – I’ve just followed suit!

I’ve been in that area a lot, turning off all the “optional extras” I can, but don’t want or need. Including OneDrive, which although it did me a good turn when my PC collapsed, I have replaced with local, external archiving.

Also for some reason, I often need run something called “Troubleshooter” to nudge the printer into action. I’ve no idea what the problem is there but often it seems the PC won’t talk to the printer. Open Troubleshooter and it makes the printer spring into life apparently without doing anything!

…….

It seems to me, sad to say, there is a strand of superiority among some of the Linux fans on this thread, who appear to imagine anyone still battling with Microsoft is obtuse, lazy or both for not converting. No trying to understand the various reasons so many people are stuck or choose to stay with MS Windows.

As for the future… goodness knows with MS trying to push its “Copilot” AI system onto us.

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

If using old fashioned SATA HDDs rather than current M2 form factor, here is a safe and convenient drive selector scheme for dual boot (using separate drives). I found it worked OK with SSD as well as rotating rust drives. You select the required boot drive by the changeover switch and push the button briefly. The latching relay is set to the choice. Now power up the PC, and since the +5 lines are now equal, it is impossible to change the selection until the PC has been switched off. Obviously you need to make up the necessary power harness, switches and double pole 5 volt latching relay.

It works because the power is required on a SATA drive to make it active and recognised by the BIOS. Both sets of data lines can be left permanently connected, only the powered HDD will operate.

Sorry diagram no quite right. Relay contacts go to SSDs, and a separate changeover switch sets the relay coil.

 

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Sorry diagram was wrong, too late at night! If using two separate old fashioned SATA connection HDDs for dual boot, here is a safe and convenient drive selector scheme for dual boot (the current M2 form factor is not any good). I found it worked OK with SSDs as well as rotating rust drives. You select the required boot drive by a changeover or better a centre off switch, and push the button briefly. The latching relay is set to the choice. Now power up the PC, and since the +5 lines are now equal, it is impossible to change the selection until the PC has been again switched off. Obviously you need to make up the necessary power harness, switches and double pole 5 volt latching relay.

It works because the power is required on a SATA drive to make it active and recognised by the BIOS. Both sets of data lines can be left permanently connected, only the powered HDD will operate. The un-powered main 5 volt line is as good as ground for the current pulse applied to the relay coil. The latching relay shown has two coils, but an alternative type may have a single coil that is reversed to switch to the other state. This simply needs a two pole switch set up to swap over the coil.

Belt and braces is a good policy in this sort of design. While a three position biased to centre off will be fairly foolproof, the separate push button  makes mal-operation very unlikely. Clearly, switching the boot drive during operation is unlikely to end well! The scheme can be embellished to choice, for example LEDs to designate the OS in use. A red/green dual LED for this would allow designation of Port or Starboard operating systems.

 

[Author]

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