MEW Workshop Tales Artie Moore and Titanic

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 19/06/2023 19:03:16:

Amidst this utterly fascinating discussion … could we spare a few moments thought for those on the ‘sightseeing’ sub which is currently lost.

**LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872

MichaelG.

Close to home. My grandfather was a radio operator (and sonar) in the navy and spent some worrying time stuck to the bottom in a K-class sub.

His discharge papers state he came up with some 'useful improvements to sonar' but we can find no trace of what these were, whether technical or technique.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by julian atkins on 19/06/2023 19:47:05:

So let's look at the above 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' website you state you relied upon, rather than the Wikipedia entries on Artie, or Gelligroes Mill, or do say an online check of the British Newspaper Archive…

I won't get into a petty exchange, but I thought my post above made it clear I looked at multiple sources; much of my difficulty coming from the fact that they all give different overviews of the same basic story.

Neil

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/06/2023 10:35:40:

Posted by Hopper on 20/06/2023 11:07:15:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/06/2023 10:28:45:

Regarding the model engine, and thereby the prize …

We may need some international co-operation here : **LINK**

https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=modelengelec

MichaelG.

I wonder if anyone on the forum has a copy of the original ME article on Artie's model engine they can post? It was published in 1909, Volume 21, Issue 451, Page 585 under the byline of Arthur E Moore.

If sufficient detail is included it would be an interesting project to make a replica of the engine of the chap who is reputed to have received the Titanic's SOS and gone on to pioneer sonar.

It

If is of reasonably modest length, I'd be happy to re-publish it in MEW, with some of the observations made in this thread – there's clearly more than a smidgin of interest!

Neil

That would be great. Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest. A fascinating character one way or another, or several others.

It really is a shame he was not quite famous enough for someone to have written his biography in the day and that he died youngish so never wrote his memoirs in his dotage. Sounds like there is so much more about him we do not know. Radio reception at the mill was just the start of it all.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I’m not too sure about Hopper’s last post in that it would have been extremely newsworthy at the time in April 1912 if Artie Moore had received any of Titanic’s distress signals. Ergo he had a front page article about him in the Daily Sketch newspaper on 7th October 1911 with pics about the Italy/Libya Declaration of War. And the death of the Russian premier in the last week of September 1911 in newspaper coverage plus the ramming of RMS Olympic (20th September 1911). It really ought not to be have been a surprise to the locality (including the local Police) that Artie might have had a receipt of signals of distress from Titanic, and that the newspapers both locally and nationally would be extremely interested! And probably with payment.

Yet 3 of us have been researching contemporaneous newspaper archives and we can find so far absolutely nothing about Artie and Titanic sinking and linking them. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Nothing until a brief sentence devoid of any detail in his obituary and the ‘by line’ in the Merthyr Express newspaper 5th February 1949.

Given that in December 1909 Artie Moore wrote an article for ME, and was quite happy to be interviewed by newspapers and photographed in late September/early October 1911, he then apparently remains completely silent on matters Titanic at the time. Just doesn’t add up to me.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes the lack of a Titanic report is certainly inconsistent with reporting of his earlier efforts. There are also several possible reasons Artie was disbelieved in the early stages and thus not reported on: 1) The Titanic was "known" to be unsinkable. 2) The owners and the insurers were both putting out press releases and statements denying anything was amiss.

Then once the truth trickled in through official channels, the Atlantic news wire etc, there would have been so much sensational Titanic news to publish that Artie's early contribution could have paled and been forgotten. The previous stories of his intercepting messages about Italy declaring war on Libya etc are very much the sort of thing journalists publish on the dreaded "quiet news day", which the days following the Titanic disaster obviously were not.

On the other hand, you would think one of the small local newspapers in Wales would publish Artie's role as a local connection to a major national/international event, something local papers always try to do. But maybe they just missed it. Or maybe Artie took off to London for his studies or new job or whatever and was not contactable. Or a hundred other possibilities. Sounds like we will never know for sure.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by julian atkins on 20/06/2023 23:36:32:

Hi Dave (SillyOldDuffer),

Can I ask you about the coherer please that apparently Artie used. It is subsequently claimed much later on that Artie upgraded his wireless telegraphy set after October 1911 or thereabouts so that by the time Titanic sank his set was not that as per the Daily Sketch pics that we now have the glass plate negatives of, and was better.

…

I don't think Artie's receiver has a coherer. The receiver part of the picture is unclear, so I might be wrong, but joining the dots I believe it takes a different approach – an electrolytic detector. An electrolytic detector, rather than a coherer, is suggested by the clearly seen  rheostat (potentiometer).

Both detectors extract the message signal from the transmitted wave, though they do so in different ways.

A coherer is a small tube containing metal filings that clump together when a high-frequency wave arrives, causing the DC resistance to drop and the headphones to click along with the morse characters. Insensitive, and the tube has to be tapped to un-clump the filings. If anyone fancies making a coherer, Nickel Silver is suitable – file down an 50p coin. Very popular in the early days – easy to make, but not ideal.

An electrolytic detector is a sharp metal point just making contact with an electrolyte such as dilute Sulphuric Acid. It has to be biased with a small adjustable DC voltage, which I think is provided by the rheostat. They work like a diode, are more sensitive than a coherer, and don't have to be tapped. Bit harder to make, and have to be kept still – fine on a fixed bench, hopeless on a ship or vehicle.

The Titanic had a patent Marconi magnetic detector, an expensive device, better than a coherer, and reliable at sea. In them, the high-frequency wave causes a magnetic field to collapse, which clicks the headphones. Artie definitely doesn't have one!

As an enthusiastic experimenter during a period of rapid development, I'm sure Artie made many changes to his rig. What's shown in the 1911 photograph is very primitive by modern standards – everything about it can be improved! I judge it a notch or two behind the best professional equipment available in 1912, but still in the same league. For example, Artie's installed a simple way of tuning the receiver, but no way of tuning the transmitter. I'm sure he was thinking about improving both. The most important part of the installation is the aerial, requiring a lot of wire in the air, as high as possible, and in the right place.

My interest in Marconi has been piqued, so I've ordered a copy his biography, 'MARCONI: The Man Who Networked the World.' Published in 2016, I'm expecting it to shatter my Boy's Own Paper view of Marconi as radio hero and all round good chap! I already know he was a sharp business man, perhaps of the worst type, who changed and denied his own story repeatedly during his lifetime. As did his company and supporters. Most contemporary accounts are highly managed, the cracks only appearing when versions are compared with each other and independent evidence. Most early accounts of his doings are suspect, a complex web of genuine progress and deceit.

I wonder if the biography will mention Artie Moore? I'm sure my dad won't be in it. He worked for Marconi circa 1990 and Guglielmo died in 1937!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 22/06/2023 12:01:13

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Dave,

Many many thanks for your above post which is extremely interesting, and useful.

Cheers,

Julian

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I have another week’s holiday off next week, so hope to be able to do a bit more research in the archives.

[Author]

Posts