MEW Workshop Tales Artie Moore and Titanic

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Thank you Michael – very helpful!

Scroll down to the bottom of the page of Michael's link. Click on the 3rd pic of inside Artie Moore's wooden shed which was his workshop and tell me what you see?

You can enlarge the pic quite a bit…

Edited By julian atkins on 18/06/2023 17:48:18

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Ought to say I'm not arguing with Julian at all. More presenting the case for the defence, when I'm not convinced my client is innocent, or that his achievements have been accurately recorded: they could have been sexed up.

However, I'd like to think Artie was truthful, the reports aren't completely impossible, and his subsequent career confirms Artie had considerable technical skills. There must be a story behind Richard Jenkins too. In 1912, we have two apparently rural neighbours were committed to a high-tech, high-skill and rather expensive hobby. A couple of smart Welsh boys making stuff work.

The case for the defence requires Artie to have a substantial antenna, and Julian's photographs contain some tantalising suggestions that he did! It's necessary to zoom in and look for details.

First, here's Artie up a ladder, implying a tree is supporting the antenna:

Artie is adjusting the Antenna, which is supported by a Pole, not the tree. He's nailed a strut to a branch with an insulator on the far-end, and is holding a wire coming from the top of the pole. The purpose of the strut is to carry the wire around the tree. I guess he's either about to attach the antenna wire to the insulator or has just removed it. Look closely, and there are 4 vertical wires going towards the pole top, plus a horizontal wire just below Artie's feet. The aerial isn't in the tree, and it's somewhat elaborate. Work is in progress – the wires aren't supposed to dangle – so the configuration can't be confirmed.

Note the hoarding edge on the right because it appears in the next picture.

At first sight, the next photo looks like a simple shot of the mill, and I guess that's Artie stood above the mill-wheel:

I think this shot is a failed attempt to photograph the antenna, not a picture of the building. The antenna is hard to see because thin wires are lost in the background. However, the hoarding can be seen behind the mill, and zooming in reveals Artie's tree and ladder:

The pole and ladder can be seen, plus a wire that appears to climb high over the roof of the mill:

And there may be a second wire climbing in the opposite direction. Possibly Artie is improving the antenna by lifting the incoming ends to the top of a pole next to the tree, rather than to a strut near the base.

I'd guess the shack is somewhere near the tree, perhaps behind the hoarding or the buildings opposite the mill except there's no sign of a building with a strange roof.

Not conclusive, but I think Artie's antenna was quite big, and as we all know, size matters…

I'll look at the equipment photo later: Tesco's need me.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/06/2023 11:09:25

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Hello SillyOldDuffer,

to perhaps give you (& others) further food for electrical thought here is a quote from a 1911 newspaper article which mentions the antenna:

"... Close by is the miller's garden in which there are pairs of poles fixed to the tops of trees about 220 feet apart.  The poles are connect with a pair of wires running parallel with each other, and connected with a little wooden shed behind the miller's house."

Source document, bottom of this page, posting dated Jun 12 2023

 

Must say I am very impressed by your radio based detective work.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 19/06/2023 12:45:17

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

I must agree with Weary about being impressed by the research, I know only the very basics of radio, but am finding this thread absolutely fascinating. I am amazed at the amount of information and references that have been found for something that happened so long ago. Please keep this one going!

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Weary on 19/06/2023 12:10:05:

… here is a quote from a 1911 newspaper article which mentions the antenna:

"... Close by is the miller's garden in which there are pairs of poles fixed to the tops of trees about 220 feet apart. The poles are connect with a pair of wires running parallel with each other, and connected with a little wooden shed behind the miller's house."

Source document, bottom of this page, posting dated Jun 12 2023

Thanks Phil, though the size of the antenna is disappointingly small! Julian says radio reception is poor at that location, which makes sense in the bottom of a valley. I was hoping to find Artie had used the geography to fit something bigger in.

This is a clip from the 1916 6" map. I've ringed the mill with a blue circle and shown the likely position of the photographer and his line to Artie's tree with a red X and arrow. (Not very obvious – look in the middle bottom area)

Unfortunately the mill is located near the corner of the OS maps, but this clip of the 1916 6" map gives an idea of the ground available, maybe!

Generally the area shows considerable evidence of early coal-mining in decline; shafts, 'Old Coal Levels', railways, a tramway and much disturbed ground. The old tramway leads to the Gelli-groes colliery, marked as disused in the 1879 survey. The field containing the tree is a few hundred feet long, but Artie might also have been able to use the spoil heap on the other side of the tramway. Over the river behind the mill there's a quarry and an area of rough ground, then fields. The site has potential for a large antenna: quite a large area of rising derelict industrial land, where no-one would mind a few tall poles and some wire.

Another bygone, just south of the mill the map marks an LH. This is a Lamp House, or street-lamp. In 1916 this was the only street lamp in the area, and important enough to be recorded as a feature. Be interesting to find out why the lamp was installed at all. My guess is serious crime. When South Wales was booming in the heyday of Welsh coal, and rife with social injustice, it got pretty wild at times.

Dave

The 1938 map shows the chance has gone. The old tramway has become the A4048, much of the industry has been tidied up, and there's been a fair amount of development. In 2023 the locals would blow a gasket!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Well, Artie must have picked up something on his magnificent erection or he would not have bothered to pursue a hobby in radio. There were no radio stations to listen to in those days so ships etc would have been a big part of what was on air. But according to THIS interesting Science Museum article, the Titanic's radio signal would have traveled only about 300 miles in daylight and maybe two or three times that at night. So 900 miles maximum. The Titanic sank near Newfoundland, about 2,200 miles from Swansea. Seems more likely Artie might have picked up signals from other, closer, ships relaying the Titanic's desperate message?

Even so, he would have had the news ahead of the general public. The Titanic hit the iceberg about midnight, local time, so that would be about 4pm UK time. Any distress signals reaching Wales then would have arrived late afternoon or evening time. No radio stations in the UK at that time. So the earliest the UK public would have known was next morning's newspapers. Even then, there was great confusion, with the Daily Mail reporting no lives were lost. American papers were first to break the true scale of the tragedy. link and link

Reports in those links indicate there was radio chatter back and forth between ships, and journalists, relayed across the Atlantic. So again, this is most likely what Artie could have picked up, not the direct transmission from the Titanic. But this detail was probably lost in the retelling of the story to the local newspaper for his obituary by family members recalling events of some 40 years earlier, at which they were not present but only heard discussed around the family dinner table etc. And we all know how that goes. (And local newspapers generally do not fact check obituaries submitted/told by families of the deceased.)

PS, just noticed the obituary clipping in Weary's link, says it was reported to the newspaper by one Councillor Richard Vines. So who knows where he got his information and how reliable it was. Most likely word of mouth from the family and other members of his constituency who may have recalled stories about Artie. Not necessarily a reliable source of historical facts at the minute detail level.

 

Edited By Hopper on 19/06/2023 15:55:26

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

May I take this opportunity to thank forum members for their further posts, which I read with considerable interest.

Just to be pedantic, can I be allowed a few corrections.

1. At 11.40pm (ships time) Titanic hit the iceberg, then that is 3.07am GMT. Titanic sank at 5.18am GMT. There was a delay of some 47 minutes in sending out the first distress signal at 12.27am ships time 3.54am GMT.

2. Dave's most interesting OS map has his red arrow pointing slightly too far left into the garden of the adjacent Islwyn Cottage then still owned by the old Penllwyn Tramway Company. (The tree that had the ladder against it is no longer there).

3. There is still a street lamp!

4. For those looking at modern maps, this bit of the A4048 confusingly became the B4251 approximately 15 years ago.

5. According to Leighton Smart's booklet, in 1949 Councillor Richard Vines was also Headmaster of the local Pontllanfraith Technical School.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by julian atkins on 17/06/2023 09:41:36:

I have been very kindly sent the MEW Workshop Tales article concerning Artie Moore from I presume MEW June 2023.

I live only a couple of miles from Gelligroes Mill where Artie grew up.

The above article contains no named author or references, and I wonder if these could be provided on here or by PM for my own interest.

I have a number of queries:-

1. The article refers to Artie winning a competition in ME. The only competition I am aware of in 1909 was the second ME exhibition, and there is no reference in the exhibition report to Artie Moore or any prize of a book by Sir Oliver Lodge.

Re Titanic

2. "assumed the signal was from another ship or land based station". Either Artie knew Titanic's call sign or not!

3. "notified his father who was also a wireless operator". There is no evidence whatsoever that Artie's father was either notified at the time (it was around 3am on a Monday morning) or that Henry Charles Moore (father) held a licence for wireless or ever used his son's wireless telegraphy set.

4. "Together they worked to boost the signal". My knowledge of wireless telegraphy is limited, but there is nothing I gather that could be done to 'boost' receipt of the signal.

5. The article claims a "subsequent role in relaying the distress signals to other ships and authorities" and "this caught the attention of the Marconi Company". Artie's own Post Office licence was limited, and there is no evidence that Artie transmitted to other ships or authorities.

6. There is no evidence that Marconi ever visited Artie Moore at Gelligroes Mill.

7. Artie Moore's subsequent employment with the Marconi Company had nothing to do with anything Titanic related. It had everything to do with him studying at and passing his examinations for his Post Master General's certificate at the British School of Telegraphy in Clapham which examinations he succeeded in April 1912. Indeed, there is the possibility he was still in London at the time Titanic sank.

Cheers,

Julian Atkins

 

"From Humble Beginnings

Artie Moore was born in 1887. As a child Artie was involved in an accident at the mill, which resulted in the loss of the lower part of one of his legs, and for the rest of his life, he wore a wooden leg. At some point prior to the year 1909, Artie, using a hand made lathe driven by the water-wheel at the mill, built a working model of a horizontal steam engine. He entered the model in a competition in the The Model Engineer magazine, and he received a book by Sir Oliver Lodge entitled Modern Views Of Magnetism And Electricity, and turned his attention from engineering to the new science of those days – wireless. Working at Gelligroes Mill in Pontllanfraith near Blackwood, Gwent, he soon began erecting wire aerials and building his rudimentary radio station, consisting of a coherer-based receiver and a spark-gap transmitter"

Hi Julian,

I spent a lot of time researching Artie, at least in proportion to what would normally go into a single page article.

The main source for the article was the "Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society" mc0mnx.webs.com/ from which the above quote was taken. One has to hope they would be the most reliable source of information. They also say he went to London as a direct result of the Titanic episode.

There is a surprising amount about Artie online and deciphering what is truth and what is embellishment is difficult. Some sources just say 'Marconi visited him' which could have been at Gelligroes or in London; others specify it was at Gelligroes.

I found suggestions his brother also was involved in the hobby radio operation, others mention his father and a friend. I suspect various people had a 'fringe' involvement, if only helping lug gear around and erect antennae!

It's a shame if some of the BBC content around Artie is inaccurate, I hope some readers, at least, can forgive me for not spending days researching original sources for a brief article, even if what I did do appears to have been a little more thorough, or at least sceptical, than the BBC's.

It was very difficult to know what to trust, although the source that said he lived near Cork was rapidly discounted…

Neil

 

 

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 19/06/2023 17:59:48

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 19/06/2023 15:32:15:

Well, Artie must have picked up something on his magnificent erection or he would not have bothered to pursue a hobby in radio. There were no radio stations to listen to in those days so ships etc would have been a big part of what was on air. But according to THIS interesting Science Museum article, the Titanic's radio signal would have traveled only about 300 miles in daylight and maybe two or three times that at night. So 900 miles maximum. The Titanic sank near Newfoundland, about 2,200 miles from Swansea. Seems more likely Artie might have picked up signals from other, closer, ships relaying the Titanic's desperate message?

My grandfather was a radio operator in the navy between the wars. He once was assigned to what was effectively a Clyde puffer on the roster of a battleship (Renown, I think). He was on the Caledonian Canal near Loch Ness and needed to signal the ship which was cruising through the Hebrides. He sent out a general call for a relay, as he couldn't get a direct signal, with lots of mountains in the way. He got his relay (in morse) via another British warship, and at the end enquired where the relay ship was stationed – the answer was New Zealand!

It's likely that Artie's and my grandfather's signals were boosted by bouncing around the upper atmosphere, which can allow long distance signals with low-power equipment, especially in days when there was vastly less interference.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just a thought, but if Julian or another contributor to this thread would like to do a fully researched and referenced article on Artie separating fact, fiction, apocrypha and speculation, then I'd be interested in receiving it as a submission.

Neil

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

It would be really interesting if a definitive article was to result from the researches being carried out. Julian is obviously a very thorough researcher, and with the valid points raised by some of our other contributors would be something well worth reading.

I've certainly lost a few hours this afternoon reading the links in the above posts, all fascinating stuff, always impressed by the range of knowledge our contributors posess.

I did find the original article in MEW very interesting.

Dave

Keeping me out of the workshop though, i've got a shaper rebuild to finish!

Edited By Dave Wootton on 19/06/2023 18:30:55

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Amidst this utterly fascinating discussion … could we spare a few moments thought for those on the ‘sightseeing’ sub which is currently lost.

**LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I've had a look at Arties shack and identified some of the stuff, sorry about the tiny red letters!

On the extreme right is a shelf with documentation and probably the station log. There's no clock, so expect Artie owned or borrowed a pocket watch. There's an electric light, so I expect the shack was operated during the night when long distance reception improved.

Below the shelf on the right is a model horizontal steam engine, presumably the prize winner.

Starting from left middle:

• A is a large inductor (coil) with slider, used to tune the receiver (after a fashion!)
• B is the induction coil, with spark gap. The distance between the balls suggests between 5 and 10kV. One side, heavily insulated, is connected to the aerial, the other bare wire is the earth.
• C is a smaller induction coil, not connected, a standby
• D is a pair of relays with switches, probably disconnecting the main power.
• E is a galvanometer, used as a kind of multimeter. It's probably come from a railway telegraph test set or maybe a colliery.
• F are the headphones – very expensive.
• G are two switches, on marble bases, with extra insulation, that disconnect the receiver from the aerial before transmitting or during a thunderstorm. They appear the only thing stopping 5kV blasting into the receiver when the transmitter is operated.
• H is a potentiometer, part of the receiver, used with an electrolytic detector
• I is a morse key. It's position suggests Artie was left-handed
• J I believe is an electrolytic detector
• K may be an electric door bell. These generate a small spark and were used tas a kind of signal generator to confirm the detector was working at maximum sensitivity. No need to hope the aerial was working and that there was a real signal coming in.
• L – I think it's an ink bottle.
• M is a sort of bread-bin with slots about the right size to hold sheets of paper. Dunno.
• N (just right of the picture) is an insulator supporting the aerial.
• O is a power take-off point, connected to a battery or dynamo, probably 12 or 24V
• P is an ammeter measuring power input.
• Q could be a bottle of acid, needed to top-up the electrolytic detector
• R is a chemical measuring flask, see Q above!
• S could a dry battery, needed to bias the electrolytic detector
• T I think is a cut-out or fuse protecting the dynamo from a short
• U is a picture of a gent in what seem to be academic robes, presumably a wireless pioneer. It's not Faraday, Hertz, Maxwell, Lodge, Righi, Bose, Tesla, Popov, Fessenden, de Forest. Slaby, Branley, Jackson or Marconi. Might be Crookes. Any other suggestions?

If anyone fancies building a replica, the is apparatus wired up something like this circuit:

Left out: the extra switches in the photo probably do things like connect the dry battery, disconnect the headphones, and short out the receiver. Also, I've shown the tuning inductor as a tapped coil when Artie probably had two coils, one sliding inside the other.

To receive:

• throw the two transmit/receive switches to connect the receiver side to the antenna.
• Put the headphones on, and adjust the potentiometer until the detector stops fizzing
• Optionally, check the receiver is working by ringing the bell. (The headphones should click along with it)
• When a signal is heard, adjust the tuning inductor's slider for best results

To transmit:

• Switch the main battery or dynamo on
• throw the two transmit/receive switches to disconnect the receiver. IMPORTANT!
• Operate the morse key. Pressing it causes a spark to jump across the gap. which energises the aerial much as banging a gong causes it to resonate. A short key press causes the other end to hear a quick double click, read as a dot, and a longer press causes a stretched double click, read as a dash.

There are a few Health and Safety issues:

• The spark coil puts several kilovolts directly onto the aerial wire, which is hazardous to the operator and anyone who happens to touch the antenna. Nasty electric shock as well as an RF burn.
• If the morse key is pressed without disconnecting the receiver, then the receive circuitry is whacked hard by the spark. Not nice for anyone wearing those headphones!
• The morse key may be switching the full input power, probably a few hundred watts, causing it to get very hot. Artie's key has a large lower contact, much bigger than the one on an ordinary telegraph key, and it's purpose is to absorb heat.
• Big sparks from the coil and key, both generating ozone and emitting ultra-violet and xrays.

Impressive I think, and quite a lot of it is home-made.

Dave

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your posts above, and thank you for telling us that you wrote the MEW article on Artie Moore.

I am very familiar with the 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' website. Run by a certain Kevin Dawson but nothing updated for years. He also is the Admin on the 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' Facebook page.

The BBC Wales online website repeated stuff about Artie Moore on 22nd May 2023. With stuff that was clearly inaccurate. He couldn't have made it to Caerphilly some 8 miles away at 5 am in the morning on his counterbalanced bicycle, and Gelligroes wasn't in Caerphilly Borough Council as it didn't exist until the mid 1970s – then, in 1912, it was still in Monmouthshire.

So let's look at the above 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' website you state you relied upon, rather than the Wikipedia entries on Artie, or Gelligroes Mill, or do say an online check of the British Newspaper Archive…

No where is there any mention of Artie transmitting messages about Titanic, no where is there any mention of his father or one of his many brothers being involved, no where is there any mention of Artie attempting to boost reception of the signals Titanic was sending. No where is there any mention of Artie assuming it was some other ship or land based station.

Setting that aside for awhile, I would very much like to hear further from Dave (SillyOldDuffer) as to his thoughts on the pic of the inside of Artie's wooden shed and all the wireless telegraphy equipment and much else besides. I would very much appreciate Dave's assessment of the contents in that pic. Perhaps also be mindful that Artie's equipment may primarily have been to communicate with the other set of Richard Jenkins' high up on the mountain some 2 or3 miles away at Ty Llywed farm Ynysddu that did have a good aerial.

Just another point for Neil, Leighton Smart in his booklet (repeated by the Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society website) said Artie received the Titanic signals in the loft of Gelligroes Mill, which would imply that Artie had abandoned his shed to the confines of what would clearly have been a very dusty and at times noisy environment. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me, and I am sure that other model engineers would agree with me!

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Dave!

Very many thanks for your analysis of the inside of Artie's shed and the wireless telegraphy equipment!

Fascinating!

You are the first person to have ever, to my knowledge, done this, and I thank you for your time and effort on this task which must have been considerable and occupied a great deal of your time today and probably also yesterday.

Sorry, our posts crossed whilst I was typing something about Neil Wyatt's replies.

Do you think that Artie's set as per the pics of early October 1911 for the Daily Sketch was any good?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For what it’s worth [probably not much] here is the location of the commemorative green plaque [which is just about legible in Street View]

**LINK** : https://earth.app.goo.gl/gWQjZT

MichaelG.

.

51°38'42"N 3°11'22"W

Edit: __ what3words pinpoints it to breeze.rising.tango 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/06/2023 22:18:16

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Posted by julian atkins on 19/06/2023 21:06:19:

Hi Dave!

Very many thanks for your analysis of the inside of Artie's shed and the wireless telegraphy equipment!

Fascinating!

You are the first person to have ever, to my knowledge, done this, and I thank you for your time and effort on this task which must have been considerable and occupied a great deal of your time today and probably also yesterday.

Sorry, our posts crossed whilst I was typing something about Neil Wyatt's replies.

Do you think that Artie's set as per the pics of early October 1911 for the Daily Sketch was any good? Could it have possibly been only to transmit/receive messages to the other set of Richard Jenkins at Ty Llywed farm much higher up?

What does the team think about the GMT times re Titanic sending out it’s distress signals? Either Artie staying up all night or getting up very early on the 15th April 1912? Is any of this really plausible?

And as an aside what do we think of the Editor of MEW publishing details some of which cannot be substantiated or sourced and are novel and new? Allegedly.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by julian atkins on 19/06/2023 21:06:19:

…

Do you think that Artie's set as per the pics of early October 1911 for the Daily Sketch was any good?

Well, not bad for the time. It's not that different from recreations of the Titanic's Radio Room, apparently based on that fitted to RMS Olympic, a sister ship.

The transmitter's induction coil is about the same size, but I think this is a small backup transmitter. The big iron was in an adjacent Silent Room, heavily soundproofed because of the noise made by a power spark. Rather than a pair of brass balls, these had spinning rotary gaps with compressed air to keep them cool and quench the arc. Artie might have had a 100W, compared to a kilowatt or more on a ship.

The Titanic's receiver is considerably better than Artie's: the Titanic had a reliable magnetic detector and tuning.

What makes the biggest difference is the aerial and 'conditions'. Small low aerials are very inefficient, and a poor earth soaks up power. And an efficient radio earth is far more elaborate than that needed for mains electricity safety or lightning protection. The geology makes a big difference and the earth itself is a large copper mesh, hundreds of metres across.

As Artie's receiver had no amplification, his headphones were driven entirely by the energy picked up by the aerial. A small efficient aerial would only work with strong signals, which isn't impossible. Early radio men noticed many anomalies. Although reliable spark range varied from 75 to 300 miles during daytime and 600 miles at night, it wasn't unusual for much longer distances to be covered. Turned out that radio waves sometimes bounce repeatedly between ionised layers up to about 300km high and the ground. Instead of disappearing into outer-space at the horizon, they're bounced back to earth again from a great height, coming back down thousands of miles away at considerable strength, perhaps skipping several times. Skipping is most common at high frequencies, but Artie may have been lucky, or his antenna picked up a short wave harmonic.

Or, maybe he heard one of the many repeats. No doubt every Marconi fitted ship in the Atlantic passed the news to other ships in range, so just maybe the ship Artie heard was repeating it from the Bristol channel. (Unlikely!)

They were exciting times. A new technology, almost magic, that turned out to be full of surprises, and still is!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/06/2023 22:28:43

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

There's a good chance he was twiddling at 4am when it all kicked off

You only have to look at his 1912 rig to see how seriously he took it

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Dave,

That is very interesting!

Olympic and Titanic had the most powerful transmitting sets. Titanic had new type of transmitter with a different sound. The Californian had quite a good set apparently of 1.5kw but running on lower voltage (60v instead of 100v) and was nevertheless very good. Carpathia’s set was quite knackered. It needed repair apparently when it later returned to dock at New York with those whom it had rescued from Titanic. The Mount Temple early on found the Carpathia’s signals faint. The Baltic also seemed to have had a bit of a duff set.

Cape Race picked up the CQD from Titanic and contacted the Virginian. Manned by 2 wireless operators same as Olympic and Titanic, and with quite a good set. On Titanic, Phillips initially had difficulty hearing on his earphones due to steam venting off from the forward boilers.

Most ships had the earlier 1.5kw set, and in some cases such as the Carpathia’s, not working very well.

I think it very unlikely that Artie Moore would have been able to receive any messages from any of the ships with the earlier 1.5kw set. A big White Star liner such as the Baltic with Marconi Inspector Balfour on board had trouble transmitting to Titanic after receiving the CQD. The Mount Temple and the Carpathia kept silent after their initial exchanges with Titanic saying in effect they had turned round and were on their way to the CQD position.

Had Evans on The Californian stayed up after his DDD from Phillips around 11.05pm ships time on The Californian warning of being stopped due to ice some 45 minutes earlier, it’s quite effective set (only a year old) might have made a difference.

So I think that pretty much rules out any ships other than Olympic and Titanic. Titanic with it’s new thingy sending the spark.

I have not found any evidence of other ships other than those relatively close to Titanic except Olympic further away picking up it’s signals. There is no evidence of say a ship off Ireland or going up the Bristol Channel to Swansea or Cardiff or Bristol receiving any signals at all in respect of the Titanic disaster that Artie Moore could perhaps have easily been able to receive. That also assumes that he spent every night (when at night time messages transmitted could be received at much longer distances) up listening on the off chance for something of interest. Then going asleep during the day when his Dad probably would like him to help out in the business of the trade and running of the Mill.

 

 

 

 

Edited By julian atkins on 20/06/2023 01:09:41

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by julian atkins on 19/06/2023 17:00:41:

May I take this opportunity to thank forum members for their further posts, which I read with considerable interest.

Just to be pedantic, can I be allowed a few corrections.

1. At 11.40pm (ships time) Titanic hit the iceberg, then that is 3.07am GMT. Titanic sank at 5.18am GMT. There was a delay of some 47 minutes in sending out the first distress signal at 12.27am ships time 3.54am GMT.

Oooops. I got that back to front didn't I. Sorry bout that. London is of course 5 hours ahead of NY, not behind. Even so, it is quite possible Artie was out twiddling at 4 or 5am. People rose early in those days. And it would have been far too late for the morning newspapers to have the story so he was still ahead of the general public in hearing about it.

It certainly is a fascinating story, or should we say stories? A further article would be well read I am sure.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

He only had to be awake at that moment in time, these things DO happen

I walked in when the second plane struck the WTC, and thought it was a disaster movie for the first few seconds

I was watching the lunchtime news when that guy immolated himself in front of Thatchers 10 Downing Street, an immolation that never happened by the time the six o'clock news came out (They D-noticed it.)

Weird stuff happens, it's a funny old world

Radio guys can "sleep" at their post, plenty did the job like that if they were waiting for incoming traffic

We'll never know for sure of course, it was probably a repeated transmission he heard but…

Edited By Ady1 on 20/06/2023 00:55:56

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I did look at over 12 months of the Marconigram magazine for 1911/12 and there was criticism of Cunard not updating the set on Carpathia. Obviously no criticism of that which Marconi had supplied and fitted to the Carpathia!

The Marconigram Magazine is now online. Easy to check. No mention of Artie Moore at all in the monthly editions I looked at. Very detailed account of pretty much everything Marconi did and where he went. And who he met. He was incredibly busy in 1912 attending 2 Titanic Inquiries, dealing with an international conference, opening the new site at Chelmsford making his kit (big new factory), a new training school at Chelmsford, then a serious injury in a road accident. Plus the various scandals that emerged over insider share dealings. Quoting Parliamentary Debates.

I really don’t think that taking a detour to visit Artie at Gelligroes would have even been on his radar let alone his agenda or diary.

 

Edited By julian atkins on 20/06/2023 01:35:39

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by julian atkins on 19/06/2023 19:47:05:

I am very familiar with the 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' website. Run by a certain Kevin Dawson but nothing updated for years. He also is the Admin on the 'Artie Moore Amateur Radio Society' Facebook page.

Julian have you tried tracking down Kevin Dawson to find out his sources? A direct message on Facebook might reach him even if he is no longer active on the society Facebook page? Or he could even be in the white pages.

And what about Lynn Pask of the Blackwood historical society quoted in the very recent BBC report on Artie HERE ? That society must be contactable and is presumably in your neck of the woods somewhere? They may have some original source material?

And Neil Prior, the BBC journo, should be able to put you in touch with the quoted "amateur radio enthusiast Billy Crofts" re the antenna. The BBC Wales switchboard should be able to put you onto Mr Prior. Although not much more to be said on that topic not already shown in the pics and discussion thereof perhaps?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by julian atkins on 20/06/2023 01:27:46:

I really don’t think that taking a detour to visit Artie at Gelligroes would have even been on his radar let alone his agenda or diary.

Yes it does seem unlikely. Marconi was a bit of a rock star tech entrepreneur of his day. It would have been like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs visiting Gelligroes. Seems unlikely for a busy celebrity businessman and surely would have made the local newspaper, you would think. More likely Marconi sent him a letter, maybe in reply to a job application, and the rest is local legend perhaps.

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