MEW 214

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Just reading David's closing editorial on line in the just released MEW214.

In it he says, and I quote:-

"I think the highlight and most important article in the last eight years or so was the CNC tool and cutter grinder by John Pace "

Was that so ?

I read that article and being interested, nay biased towards CNC, I found it lacking in that it only ground the flutes and even went as far as to say something like " the ends can be ground on any type of machine " these are my quotes as I don't have the article to hand.

Now seeing as the most wear on a milling cutter takes place on the ends and the corners of the cutting edges it would have made far more sense to me to get the machine to do these to turn it into a far more useful machine.

I for one would sooner throw a cutter away when the flutes were blunt and get a replacement and still keep a standard size.

It just seems a funny choice to me that this machine where possibly none or only a couple have been built is the high light of 90 issues of editing.

my choice would have probably been a far simpler tool that many people were interested enough in to actually spend time to make.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

John (as I'm sitting here with my KX1-NU cutting a bunch of windows for my "Ivatt&quot

I'd have said the Stepperhead lathe, but I'm not a regular reader of MEW.

Each to their own; I know that I'm off on my own little island of fun according to the local groups that I belong to…

The Western John.

My blog: **LINK**

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

Not wishing to put a damper on newcomers coming in to the hobby, but anyone with half a brain cell must be completely losing the plot by now after 4 issues trying to follow the "Beginners' Guide to Home Metalworking" . I know we live in an age where people are deemed to have no common sense until briefed by the Health & Safety brigade but reading through this issues' H&S blurb is enough to make any prospective newcomer grab a file, smooth the sharp ends off a couple of wooden dowels and take up knitting instead.

In issue 213 we were treated to no fewer than 3 views of a shed door hasp, an empty car boot followed by the same boot with a lathe in it followed by umpteen photos of lathe accessories and a Taylor Hobson engraving machine which is hardly essential kit for a beginner. At the end of the article readers were enticed to purchase next months' copy where "………we will take a look at workbenches and storage as well as looking at the Stuart Turner No.10V engine castings."

So, in eager anticipation the newbie purchases issue 214 and heads directly to page 16 expecting some useful advice on how to populate his newly acquired and securely locked shed with workbenches and storage and set up the lathe that has been filling his car boot for the last month. Well, workbenches are comprehensively discussed in two short paragraphs accompanied by two photographs of the front of a so called workbench that looks more like my bedside table. Two photos are required, one with the door shut and one with the door open, which presumably covers storage as nothing is mentioned about storage in the text. Next follows half a page justifying why hasps and car boots were essential parts of the previous article supported with another three useful photos of a hasp, a bolt and padlock and a pair of coach bolts! Then follows a discussion on not messing with electrics if you don't know what you are doing ( useful pics of a consumer unit and a double socket with plugs) continuing with other helpful advice such as having a phone handy in case of emergency but leave it turned off, wear gloves when handling swarf, but don't handle swarf with gloves on as it may cut through the gloves and slice your hand (??) and my favourite, keep your collar tight with a clothes peg to stop the ingress of swarf!

So, to recap, after 4 months of introduction to the hobby, the newbie has got himself a shed which he can securely lock. He has a lathe in his car boot which he can't do anything with yet as he doesn't have the expertise to set up a workbench for it and he's already been frightened off using it for fear of making this swarf stuff that seems hellbent on lacerating any uncovered body parts if he hasn't already burnt his shed down when machining everyday materials like titanium and magnesium.

Come on MEW, this is a rediculous waste of copy and does nothing to excite or encourage the newcomer. After 4 months the beginner should be cutting metal not worrying about the intricacies of securely locking his shed door and extinguishing magnesium swarf fires. I'm not knocking safe working practices, nobody wants to hurt themselves persueing their chosen hobby, but please credit the beginner with a little common sense and save the H&S warnings until they are relevant to the topic you are discussing at the time. One other point, don't forget your regular, more experienced readers. Speaking for myself, others may disagree, I'm happy for magazine space to be devoted to encouraging newbies, but please make it informative, relevant, encouraging and exciting for the new reader; I personally begrudge paying for this poorly thought out series which does nothing to enthuse the newcomer.

regards, Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Martin Cottrell on 09/03/2014 00:03:36:

So, to recap, after 4 months of introduction to the hobby, the newbie has got himself a shed which he can securely lock. He has a lathe in his car boot which he can't do anything with yet as he doesn't have the expertise to set up a workbench for it and he's already been frightened off using it for fear of making this swarf stuff that seems hellbent on lacerating any uncovered body parts if he hasn't already burnt his shed down when machining everyday materials like titanium and magnesium.

regards, Martin.

.

You forgot to mention the peg again.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Bogstandard2 on 09/03/2014 01:10:45:

I remember exactly the same being done with Model Engine News and two sets of Whippet castings from Hemingway under the same pretence, I won't mention what quality problems they had or whether they ever got them finished or not.

John

.

Should have given it to Tony Jeffree to bite it's head off.

[ With reference to the original edited out bit in the Worden grinder series ]

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Martin,

After reading the "shed series" aka "The Beginners' Guide to Home Metalworking" in issue 213 it didn't come as a complete shock to find shortly thereafter that MEW is getting a new editor. Undoubtedly this space filler contains more fluff than most Playboy centre spreads.

A casual reader coming across the magazine for the first time most likely would dismiss MEW out of hand on the strength of this particular series.

I somehow suspect, that the new editor's new red pen is going to put a very thick red line through the series.

Clive

 

Edited By clivel on 09/03/2014 01:35:38

Edited By clivel on 09/03/2014 01:36:28

[Billy MillsParticipant @billymills]

Perhaps any Editor who could get JS1 and BS2 to contribute to their pages would be very fortunate. I too would like to see the end of 4, 6 and 12+ serials (Apart from Stepperhead). There is the slight issue of how many good ideas there are in the metalverse although the boundary may have been pierced by the injection moulding article and the mention of 3DP into the thermoplasticverse.

There are also a fair number of other clever people who don't appear in MEW but do contribute good stuff to the forum, perhaps NW1 will make them published writers in a while.

I would like to say thanks to DC1, I don't know how on earth you put out 3 titles per month for so long without cracking up. You certainly taught this subscriber a few things. Thank you David.

Billy.

[DerryUKParticipant @derryuk]

<after 4 issues trying to follow the "Beginners' Guide to Home Metalworking">

Yes but it's £50 a page irrespective of what's on it. MEW articles don't seemingly get edited so follow Dave's guide to making money, I can't blame anyone for wanting too.

I blame me for moaning and still buying MEW.

Derry.

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

What about the advice about running a cable underground. "I have not run a cable underground so do take professional advice on this. Perhaps an internet search will reveal what precautions to take?" Surely it it would be quicker to consult all these questions to the internet if there is no advice from the article concerning supply in power etc to a workshop. Why buy the magazine.

Alan

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

I have followed the comments thus far with interest and a fair degree of agreement with the observations aired.

I too was rather concerned to see the cavalier advice given on underground cabling and the way to tackle it and for that matter the advice given to sling an overhead supply from catenary wire. David really should have avoided those issues completely, he is clearly out of his depth on the topic and the last person to advise on it.

Buried cabling in particular should be armoured and is NOT a job for those without the knowledge to work with it. It would anyway constitute a new circuit supply from the house consumer unit requiring installation by a registered electrician. Even if the beginner knows what he is doing, the law requires it to be tested and signed off by said electrician.

Stick to what you are better at David and let them see the hardware installed and doing things.

Brian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

It wasn't my intention to open this as a free for all, more a conversation on what each of us thought was the best, or one of the best articles – doesn't need to be a series, – from David's editorship.

I personally found the CNC tool and cutter grinder too restrictive in what it could do.

But if we are having a free for all The CNC in the model engineers workshop must come high on the list as being tedious.

We are now up to part 12 and I think anyone who started off reading this must have fell off the wheel by now.

I have to wonder if any of these authors has actually stood by a beginner who only has a book and watched them struggle thru the book and not being able to ask questions.

Also after 12 parts I have to ask myself are these articles being taken from the book of the same name verbatim ?

I can't check as i don't have the book.

In another periodical which shall not be named they are also running a beginners course on CNC.

I perused a copy in W. H. Schmitt [ GMBH ] and the first thing I spotted was a drawing with triangles on it and cosines.

WT Flip ? I have spent 20 years working on CNC's at all levels and NEVER had to use a cosine yet.

Another bunch of beginners consigned to the "Too complex for me " league.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

You are quite right John, the topic has drifted. I would vote for Stepperhead as a well written and rather different series on a unique piece of work and fully deserving of a place in MEW.

Brian

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

Sorry John, it wasn't my intention to hijack your post with a rant. I just assumed the title " MEW 214" was inviting general comment on the content of that issue! For me it's difficult to single out particular articles that have inspired me recently but I would have to agree with John & Brian that the Stepperhead Lathe stands out as an excellent piece of work.

Anyway, lovely warm afternoon outside so I'm off into the workshop to make some swarf. Now……where did I put that clothes peg?

Regards, Martin.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It looks like the contributor who advised me to don a rhino-hide suit was on the right track…

Neil

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

I'm sure you'll be fine Neil. Anyway you have the inevitable " honeymoon period" to look forward to so you should be ok for a couple of issues at least!!

Regards, Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Neil,

Some advise given to me years ago was grab them by the bollocks and their hearts and minds will be sure to follow.

Failing that ban the main trouble makers, been nice being on here for a while.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

I'm a pretty relaxed sort of bloke, tolerant of many things. BUT, after a lifetime of having to write stuff fairly concisely, I find articles such as the "Instrument Vice" saga tends to induce a good ZZZZZZZZ

The suggestion that MEW persuade JS1 and BS2 to rattle off a few articles an excellent one. There are others who visit this site whose contribution to MEW would be highly valued as well.

cheers

Bill

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

John,

Yes I had noticed that until a few weeks ago you hadn't been chiming in too much. I hope everything's settling down and I'm glad that you have friends to help now and again. I hope the operation goes well. It's a pain in the rear end when the old bod starts giving way isn't it?

I still use your "Darrens Lathe" thread, from some other forum as a sort of yardstick of how useful the internet can be.

All the best, stay calm and carry on.

cheers

Bill

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I've just read matters arising in the beginners guide part 4 in mew214 (I skip this article as complete rubbish after reading the diatribe in the first part), and what I read filled me with dread, to quote ' this series is for beginners although by the end of the series, many beginners will have progressed to competent hobbyists'!

Just how long is this utter rubbish going to continue, and how the h*!! Did it get past the editor (sic)

Was glad to see the end of the instrument vice epic, six! Parts to describe such a simple item. To compare, JS posted some pics of his tai!stock mod, with a few words about it, I pm'd him a couple of simple questions and same mod on my lathe is almost complete,

What would be better going forward would be more articles in the style of the power z axis motion inMEW 214, 6 pages, all there done and dusted in one, no waiting for the next exciting installment!!

And my vote goes for the Stepperhead, although it was a significant multi part article, it needed every part to do justice to such a well designed and well built machine.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by CoalBurner on 10/03/2014 08:32:50:

What would be better going forward would be more articles in the style of the power z axis motion inMEW 214, 6 pages, all there done and dusted in one, no waiting for the next exciting installment!!

And my vote goes for the Stepperhead, although it was a significant multi part article, it needed every part to do justice to such a well designed and well built machine.

.

Agreed 100% on both counts !!

The Z axis article is also exemplary for the standard of its illustrations.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

What about trying to give Neil a flying start and get him to run a one or two pager with readers tips ?

If they are sent in by readers then there should be no squabbling about content and length of project as probably the longest can only run half a page.

HSM over in the States has a long running post called Shop made tools where people post up – with no charge – what they have done or made. This has so far spun off two books, well more like magazines where they have chosen the best.

I believe that the third one is being prepared at the moment.

Good thing about this thread is that even if you tip isn't included in a book or mag then readers here still see it. The ones that do get pulled into the mag will be seen by the same people but also the many thousands who don't visit this site but buy the mag.

Only drawback I see the the HSM layout is that it's not edited and you get one post with a nice widget and then 7 posts saying Oo that's nice. If it's made clear that only genuine queries will be allowed it keeps it more interesting.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

I think articles that are too specific should be avoided. For example I have recently fitted a tumbler reverse to my Chester DB10G lathe. This would not be suitable as it would only be applicable to to this particular lathe. (Not even other Seig C6 variants.) Articles like the die casting of tank tracks and Neil's article on screw cutting although dealing with a specific example are applicable more generally. I Have used his idea of the 63 tooth gear on my DB10G lathe. (I even managed to use the one ArcEuro sell.) I think Neil could do a follow up article to help people with lathes with a gearbox between the change wheels and the leadscrew. Neil's article made me start working out how many more useful thread pitches I could cut. Being lazy I found a program to work out all the available ratios I could get with the change wheels I had. To take into account the gearbox made me think about multiplying the real leadscrew pitch by the gearbox ratios. This then gives a set of effective leadscrew pitch values which I then fed into the program. I think getting people to think about how to do things is a good aim of articles. I think this is shown by the number of times questions are asked about screw cutting a thread that is not listed on the chart supplied with the lathe.

Les.

Edited By Les Jones 1 on 10/03/2014 10:19:13

[JoParticipant @jo]

I just had a nose through MEW 214 and agree with all of coalburners points. You could have stretched that vice to two articles and it would have been a good length and provided value (as it is I think that it has done Hemmingway a disservice and will put people off making them).. As for the beginners guide: Beginners are best advised to not start there!

I am with you John: the sooner Neil stamps his mark on the magazine and gets rid of those long winded content free series of money printing articles and gets some authors who know what they are talking about, the sooner the mag will be turned around .

Something like that excellent article in ME about making nameplates would be good: Maybe the author would like to write in MEW?

Jo

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm hearing all these comments; I'm also receiving private emails with other comments. John is right when he observes that although this forum has a surprisingly large membership, the actual readership is way bigger. there really is a silent majority.

Life isn't made easier as there are no right answers here, just balance of opinion one way or the other and there are always at least a few people who disagree with what may appear a unanimous view to the casual reader.

The vice article was long if seen as a description of how to make the vice. On the other hand, the reason it was long was that the series was packed with a lot of very useful advice for the beginner by a very experienced model engineer. Perhaps it should have been packaged as a beginners series that just happened to feature the vice – but then would that have been disingenuous?

Another series is aimed at the beginner. The criticism voiced here is from experience model engineers. Is there a beginner reading this thread who can offer a perspective?

On the subject of tips, I'm in discussion with one of our advertisers to sponsor a 'tips' page with a modest prize each month. I'm hoping this will unleash a small tide of short snappy 'a few hundred words plus a picture or drawing' responses.

Neil

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