Metalworking files – Guidance required please

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Hi

It seems to be accepted wisdom that one should use a new file first on brass, and then relegate it to use on steel once it has lost its initial sharpness.

Where, if anywhere, does use on alloy or plastics come in this sequence?

Rod

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Rod Renshaw on 11/11/2017 17:30:04:

Hi

It seems to be accepted wisdom that one should use a new file first on brass, and then relegate it to use on steel once it has lost its initial sharpness.

Where, if anywhere, does use on alloy or plastics come in this sequence?

Rod

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Hard Aluminium alloys, and most plastics are fairly harmless [but obviously beware composite materials].

Soft alloys, and mild steel, tend to 'pin' the file, and it is the cleaning process that does most damage.

Hard steels simply wear the teeth.

File teeth for Brass need a sharp edge ['though not necessarily a very acute angle] to cut properly … With blunt edges, the file will skid over the surface.

That's my story anyway … I welcome other opinions.

MichaelG.

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

You need to watch ebay. I managed to buy some boxes of Stubbs files for my workshop!

[paul raynerParticipant @paulrayner36054]

this is how I've stored my files. I just used 1 1/4" waste pipe cut to 3 different lengths, stick together with expanding foam and cobble together a box to go round it.

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

I recently bought a few Feterai from Arc Eurotrade. Best "fine cut " files I have ever used.

Some Vallorbe have disappointed as have most Bahco and Draper.

Like vintageengineer I have been fortunate in finding NOS Stubbs files in auctions, and cannot fault them.

The most useful file in my kit is an 8" safe edge Millenicut – but beware, as some Ebay sellers offer files of suspect quality.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

3D printed needle file rack. IIRC a few stubs and 1 or 2 Vallorbe in there… mostly Draper and obscure names. The 3D printed handles off thingiverse are great, I now have many more:

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/11/2017 18:13:28:

That's my story anyway … I welcome other opinions.

MichaelG.

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Come on chaps … Sunday morning is a good time for alternative hypotheses

MichaelG.

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

May I add a reference to the file known as " The Farmers Friend", this is a one piece flat file with handle incorporated, 2 safe edges, no teeth on half inch of forward end to allow 2 handed grip without getting splinters, it is fine toothed & more importantly single cut, made for sharpening unhardened garden tools etc. However in the engineering world very useful for drawfiling, deburring & so forth. Single cut means you don't get what looks like the coarse knurling produced by cross cut teeth, used on the lathe also good results, removing fine slivers when trimming bolts & screws massacred by hacksaw. Mandatory health & safety note, I make no apologies for being left handed, when using on the lathe therefore, left hand on handle, right hand on front end, entire body positioned to right of job, not in front of it with left arm arched over danger area as I have seen some folk do. This technology is available at a car boot sale near you for about 20 pence a time, cheers.

Bob

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

I wouldn't buy a set to be honest. I do have a set and pretty much 95% of the time just use the flat No.2. I don't think I've ever used the rat tail. An exception is the CK branded needle files, I use most of them, though again, the round file doesn't get used much.

Steve

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Does anyone know where to buy triangular needle files, such as are used for opening the holes in clock and watch hands ( about 21/2 inches long ) I can only get round and square. they don't seem to make threesquare

Roy

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 11:26:12:

Does anyone know where to buy triangular needle files, such as are used for opening the holes in clock and watch hands ( about 21/2 inches long ) I can only get round and square. they don't seem to make threesquare

Roy

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Roy,

These may be too large [in both size and price] but Walsh seems a good place to start.

**LINK**

https://www.hswalsh.com/product/escapement-file-threesquare-tf93

MichaelG.

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… taking good care of my old needle files

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 11:26:12:

Does anyone know where to buy triangular needle files, such as are used for opening the holes in clock and watch hands ( about 21/2 inches long ) I can only get round and square. they don't seem to make threesquare

Roy

Or ARC, not tried the triangular but bought the half round and round ones which work fine.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

**LINK**

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Mark, Michael and Jason All these files are about 5 to 6 inches long I asked for 2 1/2 inch

Non of the clock material houses seem to stock threesquare

Thanks anyway Roy

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Do you mean 2 1/2 " blade or overall length? The blades on many needle files are only 2 1/2" and about 5 1/2" or 6" overall.

The valorbe escapement files as far as i know are smaller than normal needle files they are listed at 55mm long whereas the regular needle files are listed at 160mm long.

Such as https://www.shesto.co.uk/brands/vallorbe/vallorbe-le3014-55-6-escapement-file-three-square-6-cut/

Though the sizing on various sites is highly confusing

Edited By mark smith 20 on 12/11/2017 15:54:14

Edited By mark smith 20 on 12/11/2017 15:54:45

Edited By mark smith 20 on 12/11/2017 15:58:22

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Pferd make superb files, spendy but superb. I've had some for years and they still give a good cut. Nicholson USED to be great files, not keen on the newer version.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Mark, that length is the cutting length and does not include the tang see here

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by robjon44 on 12/11/2017 09:58:14:

May I add a reference to the file known as " The Farmers Friend",

Bob

Our local tool supplier sells them very cheaply so i bought one on the owner's recommendation.To my surprise they are excellent quality & last as long as any others i have used.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Many folks use needle files unhandled but for those that want to use a handle the Exacto number two makes an excellent interchangeable handle for needle files.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by JasonB on 12/11/2017 17:23:52:

Mark, that length is the cutting length and does not include the tang see here

Hi Jason, yes i kind of realised that after i posted ,some suppliers giving the overall length and some just the cutting edge length.

Still never seen 2 1/2" ones and i hope the OP clears up if he means overall length or cutting edge.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 15:38:01:

Mark, Michael and Jason All these files are about 5 to 6 inches long I asked for 2 1/2 inch

Non of the clock material houses seem to stock threesquare

Thanks anyway Roy

.

Understood, Roy … That's why I wrote:

"These may be too large [in both size and price] but Walsh seems a good place to start."

Sorry I didn't have the time to investigate further.

MichaelG.

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Edit: Sensing your frustration …

These are offered in various lengths:

https://www.esslinger.com/jewelry-needle-file-three-square-shape-swiss-vallorbe/?_ga=2.38223843.193229444.1510513077-1803263265.1510513077

and, being Vallorbe, one would hope that they could be made available in the U.K.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/11/2017 19:05:04

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Mark Overall length about 2 1/2 inches.  I suppose I could just  cut the tang off though the file may be too wide then

Roy

Edited By roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 19:43:29

Edited By roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 19:47:25

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 12/11/2017 18:40:41:

.

Edit: Sensing your frustration …

These are offered in various lengths:

.

^^^ A little closer … but still no coconut

I will have to ask, Roy … Do you happen know the make of the one you have 'retired' ?

… or are you just hoping that they might exist ?

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/11/2017 20:19:21

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Roy,

These might be worth a punt **LINK**

http://www.metalclay.co.uk/products/Mini-Needle-File-Set.html

But I would be [very] pleasantly surprised if the are durable.

MichaelG.

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P.S. … I do however suspect a typo:    "a very small size. 2mm wide x 10mm long"

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/11/2017 20:30:10

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Michael I don't know the make of the ones I've got. I've got a round one about 3/32" diameter and two square ones again about 3/32" across flats at the widest, tapering to a point. I'd like a threesquare one about the same size. I think they came from Meadows & Passmore or A G Thomas but they can't help

Roy

Edited By roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 21:09:59

Edited By roy entwistle on 12/11/2017 21:18:53

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