Metal Rack

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK Peeps, need input and ideas.

My metal rack is a mess, basic problem is I have is it's 7 arms plus the floor and this isn't enough to split sizes and material up.

Quite an old photo taken when the slotter was being installed. This has now long gone and 3 CNC's now stand in front of the rack.

The rack is also far heavier populated to the point that I have had 15 bars of steel delivered this week and there is no room left and they are still on the floor. My initial though was, most material is in 3.1 metre lengths 10' or so and I never have to work on long lengths, in fact the largest lathe can take 50" max. So I was thinking about sawing the bars into two as they come in and store vertically in a frame made from say 1 1/2" x 5/16" or 40 x 8 in UK parlance consisting of say 6" squares.

Back rows at say 3' high and another 4" off the floor to stop bars sliding and the front rows at say 18" high to take bar ends. Frames to be made in sections and bolted together and then when a move comes and it will in a couple of years they could even be re bolted to form a corner.

Idea's bricks, flames £5 notes all gladly accepted.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

WOW ! That is some "model" you are considering making with all those tools and bar stock. Most of us store our stock in an up turned barrel ! Have you thought about "Just in Time" delivery of stock as you presumably have quite an inventory stock there.
BobH

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Problem with standing vertically at 5ft long is you then waste all the space above.

What about 5ft long, stored horizontally with the ends facing out towards you. thats how my local stockholder stores theirs but in full lengths, easy to see size, section and colour code.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Lord only knows how you cope at the moment and in variably if you cut them down some pie can will want a load of ten foot or three meter lengths. Had the same problem at a place where I worked but with plate! What ten foot overhangs!!

I suppose a wasp nest of square hollow section will be a trifle expensive? Off cuts in the lower boxes so as not to drop stuff on your head and hopefully you will be able to get to both ends (access permitting).

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I have used corrugated steel, roofing sheets, horizontal on long.support bars. Box sections are available, in short lengths can be got very cheap.

[Halton TankParticipant @haltontank]

In our club's metal store the rack is made from a series of 4" plastic guttering stacked vertically at slight angle, side by side. We used standard 2m lengths of guttering, that is only due to height of the ceiling.

Regard Luigi.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

One from the Department of Daft Ideas:

Put a trench in the floor, about 3 foot deep [and adequately drained!]

Add dividers and a box frame 'fence' [maybe incorporating 'gates' or chains]

Stand the stock on end.

10 foot lengths [of modest section] should lift out O.K.

Heavier stuff; cut to 5 foot lengths.

… Anything longer than 2 foot should be store-able in this.

MichaelG.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

One more from the Department of Daft Ideas:

Belay the "[and adequately drained!]" bit and fill the trench with citric acid.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Brian Rice 1Participant @brianrice1]

That's some shed, my biggest problems is can I afford to buy it ,not store it can someone help with this problem?

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well John

Thank you. Seeing your workshop always makes me feel better about my untidy hide-hole!

Norman

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

One has to wonder how much money is tied up in that amount of stock, I have just purchased some square PB and was some what taken aback at the cost of 12" of 1" square. Needs must as I have 8 split axle boxes to make and this bit only covers the smaller part of the axle box. OK steel is cheaper but a length of 2" diameter x 10ft is about £65.00.

I try to order material as I need them but have accumulated a fair few off cuts etc, longer bits I have stood up and shorter bits on some racking ends facing out so I can see what's what, nothing worse than knowing you have something but cannot find it, wood and trees spring to mind.

Bob

[john jennings 1Participant @johnjennings1]

John's contributions to this forum are always interesting sometime humorous and sometimes mind blowing.

I get the impression that a lot of thought goes into his activities.

Without wishing to embarrass him, I find it refreshing that having a slight over stock situation he is willing to say

"Guys out there got any bright ideas"

Another John

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello John,

Having had a day or two to think about it I have a suggestion.

Create a new A shaped rack, perhaps in the area to the left in your photo with the saw offset at one end and a shorter cross rack at the other [scaffold tower style] fitted with sections of square PVC downpipe to build a honeycomb store for the shorter sections.

It would give the highest density for storage, combined with ready access from both sides

Regards

Brian

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I suspect the modelling side of John's activities are on the cat walk since his pad looks like a one man business welding, fabricating and turning.

He hasn't enough room for a wasps nest hows he going to get a honey comb in there?

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 01/03/2015 15:03:29

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

John,

One further suggestion in my re-organisation of your workshop would be to combine one tray of the new rack as the bar support to feed the saw.

Brian

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, John et al.,

Well, further up the page there I made a facetious post. Having returned to the discussion, though, I feel contrite.

This question of storage is a difficult one. I guess for most of John's work he knows in advance what materials he's going to need and orders for the job. Maybe though, he has to over-order to get a better price, relying on repeat work or similar work to use up that excess material in the fullness of time. But, in that intervening period, the material has to go somewhere, to be retrievable and to be safe from corrosion, bending, mistakes of identity and so on. It's far from a trivial matter.

In my workshop, the problem differs in both scale and nature. I don't get through anywhere near as much material as John obviously does. Since I set up my workshop in 1970 (that's three house moves ago!) I've bought very little material but I've accumulated a lot 'in case it comes in handy' (most of it hasn't!). I've got an eight gallon olive oil can with the top cut out and filled with material on end, a large ammo box full of shorter lengths and a box of similar on the floor just inside the workshop door (a trip hazard!) and lots of other stuff in various other places, under the bench, in drawers etc., etc.

The result is that it's physically exhausting and very time consuming to go through it all on the off chance that I'll find that ideal piece inside which my current project is hiding. Not only that but there's just about zero square inches of free horizontal surface in there anywhere. That situation is a great obstacle to achieving results and deriving satisfaction from my hobby.

I know I should have a good tidy and chuck a lot of stuff away but that needs some 'shunting space' as well as time. To those reading this who are just starting out in the hobby, let my situation be a terrible warning!

And, John, please forgive me if my earlier post lowered the quality of the discussion. I hope that you find a solution that works for you.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

John

How about 2 x H shaped racks at right angles to wall- cut stock into max 5ft lengths to store on this.

If you angle the H frame slightly with shelves sloping SLIGHTLY sideways it will auto feed the stuff down to hand, having hooks at end of a frame arms to retain it. Plate etc can then be stored over the racks on boards( Glass reinforced ply is very strong and doesn't easily break so should be safe?

If you have the saw located at the end of one of the lower frames you could even use the frame to support the bar being cut -just haul out to length?

Then as Brian said you can have a matrix of 4" dia tubes to store smaller off cuts.

let us know what you decide ( and why for us all to learn)

regards Ian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK, I'll try to explain a few things better because i know the limitations, many of you not knowing are working blind.

The picture is an old one and the metal rack probably contains 1/3 more now than in the pic and has machines in front of it. The shop is 14' wide max but has a bench on the other side for all the welding stuff, gas bottles etc.

Just above the metal rack is the floor of the hay loft, this is an old stable block. [ didn't do Jesus any harm ]

I possibly made a mistake when I say 5' lengths as the hay loft may stop them being extracted but all this lot is slated to be moved to a new shop, as yet unbuilt but will probably have the same sizes and limitations. Time scale is 2 to 3 years and once a new system is worked out I 'may' build this in the new shop and move this over gradually allowing time to sort out and then the existing rack uprights can be sold on.

Brian's idea of supports from the metal rack are already in use.

I think some more up to date photo's are needed. Get a few later, being mauled by two hungry Old English sheepdogs……………………………………………..

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Got some pics but busy on a job.

However had an idea last night and decided to cost up what was the best way. As I can't contact the steel supplier I went onto Metals4U web site to do some costing.

Where do these Ijits get their prices from, Can understand if you want little cut pieces of expensive stock but whole bars of black steel should be competitive.

I was looking at 40 x 6 flat bar in long lengths.

They do 6 metres for £41.45 plus the usual shipping and VAT

Rang my suppliers this morning who will incidently deal with anyone and they wanted £8.50 per length plus £8.50 carriage and usual VAT.

My other option of 6" hollow section tube, plastic no good need to weld this into a frame, cannot be costed from them as they finish at 4" square but they want as much for 4" as my supplier wants for 6".

More a heads up that instaed of paying expensive prices, try your local stockist first.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I've an idea, John,

Use all that extra bar to make a new rack.

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Neil,

Don't give up your full time job.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

John,

If you don't mind me asking who is your supplier and where are they based. Do they do aluminium strip or angle as well as steel stock.

Many Thanks,

Colin

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK stuck for a minute waiting for a guy before I have to shoot out so pictures.

As it stands at the moment, last but one delivery is just visible on the power saw as going to struggle getting these away.

Last delivery on Friday.

Welding bench on the right with welders and CNC's in the middle. The little Connect is currently being used as a dumping ground for new parcels. It's because of these machines I can bring the rack out 5' as a lot of people have suggested and when it moves to the new place I will be worse off for width.

Although this is a working shop it doesn't get used full time. Only to go in, weld a bit up, saw a bit off or swap jobs on the CNC.

Had an idea last night, no one put the idea forward but it's been distilled from what people have said. I need to do a sketch later tonight when I have time.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Colin,

No problems.

Steel I use Eggleston Steel at Derby, they do have limited non ferrous stock but not competitive.

 

Non ferrous, alloy, brass and stainless I use ASC Metals at Lincoln but they have other depots round the country. Lincoln deliver this area, Notts / Derby border every day.

 

Bronze I get from Leeds Bronze, very very competitive, in fact just ordered a length of 3" cored bronze with 1 1/2" hole so quite chunky and had to buy 15" to hit the £30 minimum charge. That's a lot of bronze for £30. This is for a BMW cylinder head I'm repairing which I will post in the bodgers loge thread when I get the bronze tomorrow.

 

[edit]

That pile of bars in the second picture including deliver and VAT came to £171 or £137 nett.

Just priced it up on Metals4U and it comes out to £382.46 nett  without carriage but I have had to fudge a few sizes as they don't do certain ones I have bought.

 

Biggest difference is on the larger sizes, they want £90 per bar for 40mm, I paid £31.60

Edited By John Stevenson on 03/03/2015 13:22:22

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