MAX-T

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 16/07/2022 13:28:46:

… Ran into problems with Ebay in that it recognised the userid I supplied, but then refused to accept the password. Went through the password change procedure, but then it said that I appear to have changed computer so ring "this 'phone number"and quote a long string of digits. I'm afraid I lost patience with it – as far as I'm concerned it's none of their business if I change computers, and anyway, I've long had at least two computers running, one for backup purposes. …

Oh dear. From ebay's side of the fence, Peter looks just like a criminal trying to hijack an account. Man claiming to have forgotten his password, using a different computer, who disappears when challenged!

The fuss is because the email password change procedure is moderately strong but not perfect. So they check the computer as well: if it's the same machine as last time, then you are genuine. If it's not the same computer as last time, you could well be a hacker. It's one of the signs. Checking the computer is strong security because bad boys can't easily replicate security data previously stored on your computer by a bank or shop. Failing the 'same computer' check is cause for concern and it activates another level of security, requiring you to contact them. Annoying, but it keeps us safe.

Trouble with computer security is folk just want to get on with life and resent wasting their time on bureaucracy and cross-checks they don't understand. But it's unwise to cut corners. Dishonest clever people are always looking for new ways of getting inside the system. And when they succeed, victims suffer at least major hassle. Perhaps months of worry before the money is returned, if ever.

Fraud is a serious problem in the UK. It's risen rapidly over the last 10 years and 2015 if first accounted for more than 50% of all crime by value. Got steadily worse since then with online fraud growing fastest. Although reporting and advice has been improved the police have not been given the extra resources needed to tackle the problem.

So faced with a security need to reassert my identity, I make sure the request is real, and then do the necessary. I don't look for easy ways of getting round the problem because they often introduce security loopholes. I avoid leaking personal information too because the bad guys are good at assembling enough data to pull off an identity theft.

I suggest we should make it as hard as possible for criminals. Even if it does mean putting time and effort into a maze of bl**dy irritating security procedures!

Dave

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Dave,

Over the years I have seen more and more onerous restrictions placed on people, restrictions which I for one resent. Refusing to supply me with a service just because I have changed my computer is one step too far. What business is it of anyone, not just Ebay, of which computer I use? Next stop, I will need to apply to some Ministry or other to obtain permission to do just that.

In fact, more and more, when I read of people who really should know better by now getting duped, then I tend towards thinking that perhaps it serves them right, perhaps they will now take more care. The problem is that we, the general, law-abiding, public, are having more and more restrictions placed upon us, more and more "nanny knows best" because of this. Why on earth shouldn't people be expected to look out for themselves, and not be expected to kow-tow to all and sundry under the so-called guise of security.

Quite how they know it's not the same computer, I do not know – I take care to eliminate all cookies, history, etc as soon as the browser is being shut down so if "they", the magic "they", are doing something so that "they" know which computer I am using, then it is time this was brought into the open and people knew about it. I do not want people tracking me in this manner – next step China! It's all rather Orwellian.

I'm well aware that we, the GBP, are being surreptiously monitored, that there are cameras all over the place, on the roads, in towns and cities, and I don't like it. What business is it of anyone if I'm somewhere for an entirely legitimate reason? Why should other people know about my private business? It's got nothing to do with them. I've already made the point that I have had multiple computers for a number of years, I think about 15, so does that mean that Ebay, and possibly other people/groups, are monitoring all of them? I dread to think of how large their database must be if they have lists of the computer every person uses who accesses Ebay to buy something. At the current time I could use any one of three laptops. Are they to be expected to know about all three?

I also don't like the idea that my information is being held by an American company, and may therefore be available for American Nosey-Parkers to investigate me. Again, I have deep objections to this, but I put up with it in order to be able to do what I do, when I want to do it. Indeed, some years ago, I held shares in a British owned and run investment trust. Unfortunately, it was being run under the auspices of J.P.Morgan whose parent company was based in America. Eventually I received a W8-BEN (I think that's the designation) form to fill in declaring to the American IRS that I was a UK citizen etc. What business is it of the USA when I am holding shares in a UK based IT which I think was investing solely in the UK? I immediately took steps to remove any requirement to complete this form.

You know, if this trend continues, I could very well see me, and other people, reverting to telephone orders, or post, or even cash.

I'm sorry to go on like this, you've managed to hit a very sore point with me. I just don't see why I, and other law-abiding people, should be inconvenienced because some people are incapable of looking after their own affairs, and big business, to say nothing of a countries security services, think it acceptable to pry into a citizen's affairs.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited to add missing sentence.

Edited to add missing apostrophe

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 16/07/2022 16:11:41

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

I've had four phone conversations with ebay in the last three weeks because of the ineptitude of its latest security measures. I use two computers interchangeably (often swapping several times a day) for a single ebay account, but ebay apparently isn't happy with this. Every time I log in using the device that wasn't used at the last log-in I have to go through two (sometimes more) captcha screens and am asked to submit a mobile phone number, and then enter my login details all over again.

I've been assured in each of the four conversations with ebay that this shouldn't be happening and that their tech team are going to sort this out for me, but to date nothing has been done to improve matters. I currently have over a hundred ebay messages in my inbox going back six weeks telling me I'm located in Scotland, 240 miles away from where I actually am, that "a new device is using [my] account" and that I need to change my password. I have done, once, and nothing changed.

I think Peter's rant against surveillance is justified. My local Asda is now using facial recognition software. I asked the store manager where the recorded images are stored, how long they are stored for, and who they are shared with, but he was unable [genuinely, I believe] to answer any of these questions: "Ain't got a clue, mate" were the words he used.

What people like me and Peter who don't like the new global surveillance culture are up against if we want it to be reined in is not the fact that the surveillance culture is unstoppable, but that the vast majority of the public are, like the Asda store manager, apathetic or else completely ignorant about the implications it has for our privacy and, ultimately, our personal liberty.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Thanks Bill for the support. I did wonder when I wrote it, if I was indeed going OTT. Your message gives me heart that I'm not.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

If you really want something to think about – and a long read, try The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff. The subtitle is "The fight for a human future at the new frontier of power". It was published in 2019 and things have got worse since!

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Not come across this enhanced eBay security yet – all I get if I use a different device is an email worded as follows:

We noticed a new sign-in on your account at ebay.co.uk. Here are the details:

Time of sign-in
17-Jul-2022 09:41 GMT

Device
Web browser

Approximate location
Colchester, Essex, United Kingdom

If this was you, there’s nothing you need to do. If it wasn’t, please change your password right away.

Which seems entirely adequate and acceptable to me.

Edit – I'm not in Colchester, and I know that – that's where my ISP's main line (backbone) is situated. I just go off the time and date.

Rob

Edited By Grindstone Cowboy on 17/07/2022 09:53:37

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Rob,

It would seem that both Bill & I are experiencing something different to you. I quite agree that what you are seeing is acceptable, but I, and I assume Bill as well, are receiving something much more intrusive requiring us to jump through hoops before we can proceed. And that is the problem – we have to do something, you don't.

Peter G. Shaw

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Hi Peter

Absolutely – being of an enquiring mind, I'm tempted to find out why your, and Bill's, experience is different.

All the best,

Rob

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 17/07/2022 17:57:40:

Hi Peter

Absolutely – being of an enquiring mind, I'm tempted to find out why your, and Bill's, experience is different.

All the best,

Rob

After switching devices, Rob, are you getting the multiple captcha screens, the request to supply a mobile phone number, and then a requirement to log in again before you can access your ebay account?

I didn't mention that an additional problem is that even after all of this rigmarole ebay regularly responds with an error message (usually several times in succession) when the correct log in details are entered for a second time.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Hi Bill

Nope, none of that, it logs in as normal, but just sends the email as shown.

However, I did a bit of searching earlier, and some people have been asking about "eBay enhanced security" and problems associated with it over the past couple of months – see for example here and note the final comment from an eBay employee.

Might answer some questions.

Rob

Links to https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Technical-Issues/Warnings-about-log-ins/m-p/7218355

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Yes, the ebay employee's response answers one question (about some providers using dynamic IP addresses), but if my ISP does that it's not something I can influence at my end.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Well now, they have arrived. Both in the same packing. So someone must have realised that the two separate orders were from the same address. Good marks for that, but still poor of Ebay. Let's not go down that path again.

The address they've been sent from is actually what seems like a private address in a village near Stroud in Gloucester. So much for for the other addresses, but full marks to whoever found Stroud. You were right. It's a lady who's sent them, and she's included on the invoice this comment: "Thanks for your purchase! I hope you love it!" Somehow, I doubt I'll "love" them – it's a tool for heaven's sake.

First impressions: they are rather small, in fact too small for my machine so I'm going to have to make some sort of adaptors to hold them. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained etc. Perhaps it was me who didn't really take note of the stated sizes.

And that's it. Off to the quack's now. Wish me luck!

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

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