material choice

[Chris GoodwillParticipant @chrisgoodwill78822]

Hi

I need to replace a vice handle, the current one is bent, too thin, end caps don't fit well, rusty ect. I have been looking on ebay and stainless steel is cheap. It's going to be 16mm dia about 30cm long. Anybody think of a reason why 304 stainless would be a bad choice for a vice handle?

[Chris GoodwillParticipant @chrisgoodwill78822]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Stainless 304 wouldn't be my first choice. Mainly because it work-hardens, requiring sharp-tools that are kept cutting by the operator at all times. Rubbing a tool on 304 hardens the steel and blunts the tool pronto.

Cutting work-hardening stainless isn't horrifically difficult, but it's risky enough that I avoid 304. Also, stainless is unlikely to be cheaper than mild-steel.

Bear in mind too that the existing thin bendy handle may be deliberate. It's because vice handles are usually sized to bend just before the vice breaks…

Dave

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Just use mild steel if you can get away with it, back in the day when we didn't buy everything from China vice handles were normally a one piece forging.

Tony

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you think 16mm mild steel is going to bend in use shoot the monkey using it before they do serious damage to something important.

[Chris GoodwillParticipant @chrisgoodwill78822]

OK, so this doesn't need to be case hardened or anything special, just basic mild steel.

That will making it a lot easier..

Thanks

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I milled a hex on the shaft and 3D printed a handle.

Works well.

Jim

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 28/06/2023 15:45:47:

Stainless 304 wouldn't be my first choice. Mainly because it work-hardens, requiring sharp-tools that are kept cutting by the operator at all times. Rubbing a tool on 304 hardens the steel and blunts the tool pronto.

Cutting work-hardening stainless isn't horrifically difficult, but it's risky enough that I avoid 304. Also, stainless is unlikely to be cheaper than mild-steel.

Bear in mind too that the existing thin bendy handle may be deliberate. It's because vice handles are usually sized to bend just before the vice breaks…

Dave

Generally, the handle is made to a suitable length, such that the vise cannot be over-strained. It is often a length of pipe that causes damage. This is not a large vise, if the handle is going to be only about 30cm long.

Handle ends can be added by plug welding, screwed/bolted on with loctite thread sealant, shrink fitted, or any other means to hand.

Edited By not done it yet on 28/06/2023 19:37:55

[Anonymous]

Posted by Chris Goodwill on 28/06/2023 15:09:37:

…a reason why 304 stainless would be a bad choice…

It's a female dog when turning.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 28/06/2023 16:44:47:

Just use mild steel if you can get away with it, back in the day when we didn't buy everything from China vice handles were normally a one piece forging.

Tony

.

Very interesting, Tony

I am not doubting your word, but I’m intrigued to know how a one-piece forging would be fitted to the vice-screw.

… was it somehow forged in-situ ?

Don’t think I have ever seen one.

MichaelG.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Have a look on here.

https://brooksforgings.co.uk/processes/upset-forging

First forge one end clean up with wire brush then heat bar fit through screw end, ( which was also forged then drilled ) and forge the second end in situ and wire brush for finnish.

David

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for that, David

Much appreciated

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ the merits of doing it that way are obvious, but I would imagine that handling the finished parts was troublesome.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/06/2023 07:28:44

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Stainless steel does tend to bind when used as a sliding handle,I have a Record no 23 6 inch vice bought cheap at a sale,handle is 5/8 dia and is bent ,abuse by previous owners, I would recomend tough en 16 or more readily available 5/8 silver steel as it sold in 13 inch lengths ideal for your job, 16 mm may be cheaper and is only about 5 thou larger in dia,it will pay to get tough material as there always comes time when a bit of heave ho with a length of pipe on the handle is required.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 28/06/2023 19:59:43:

Posted by Chris Goodwill on 28/06/2023 15:09:37:

…a reason why 304 stainless would be a bad choice…

It's a female dog when turning.

Andrew

Lends a whole new aspect to turning between centres using a dog…

George

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 28/06/2023 20:38:12:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 28/06/2023 16:44:47:

Just use mild steel if you can get away with it, back in the day when we didn't buy everything from China vice handles were normally a one piece forging.

Tony

.

Very interesting, Tony

I am not doubting your word, but I’m intrigued to know how a one-piece forging would be fitted to the vice-screw.

… was it somehow forged in-situ ?

Don’t think I have ever seen one.

MichaelG.

Jeez Michael, are we not talking about a milling vice with removable handle, I had it in my head that we were? Recovering from a nasty bout of Covid so not 'with it' atm. Reading the OP yes it looks like a bench vice.

Tony

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 30/06/2023 14:30:26

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks Tony … and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

MichaelG.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Vice handles are sized for the grip needed and the likely force exerted by hand – they should not be subject to abuse like "extension" tubes or hammers! If you feel needing resort to that sort of cruelty, think again about the work itself.

A 5/8" (16mm) diameter mild-steel (EN3) handle only a foot long will not bend if you use the vice properly; but if not convinced use a machinable grade of higher-tensile steel (E.g. EN8 ).

You can fit the end-caps by screwing them on, or as press-fit, then the ends peened and cleaned up. The end-caps are only there to stop the handle from falling out. They are not part of the function.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

A handle made to the above dimensions from black EN3 will take at least 60lb before it starts to bend, but if you use bright drawn, it will take quite a bit more. I reckon that enough for most people, no need for expensive materials

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/06/2023 21:17:45:

You can fit the end-caps by screwing them on, or as press-fit, then the ends peened and cleaned up. The end-caps are only there to stop the handle from falling out. They are not part of the function.

You could even move into the twentieth century and Loctite them on.

[Author]

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