Massey Ferguson Tractor on front cover of ME 4382

[Donald MitchellParticipant @donaldmitchell68891]

What’s going on chaps in the editorial department !!!

Firstly, a big thank you for getting my M.E. 4382 issue to me on Thursday 15th July – full marks.

But what is going on – it’s a model engineering magazine – I want model engineering in the mag (and on the front cover) for my hard earned cash – if I want Massey Ferguson tractors I’ll buy a Classic Tractor mag. – if I want classic bikes I’ll buy Classic Bike mag. – if I want classic cars I’ll buy a classic car mag. None of these pictures were of models and I didn’t see any mention of model engineering in the text either.

I don’t want to be paying for nice pictures of rolling English landscape in my M.E. either; I’m severly disgruntled.

In my opinion an artical such as this vintage rally one has no place in M.E.

David, in your usual appeal for articles in your Smoke Rings, you state that, and I quote,  ” I do have quite a few in hand, in fact, I probably have more in hand for Model Engineer than I do for Model Engineers Workshop” 

Can I have a model engineering magazine confined to model engineering please?

 

Donald Mitchell

Castle Douglas

Bonnie Scotland

 

I see plenty Scottish rolling landscape when I look out of the workshop door, for free !

[Donald MitchellParticipant @donaldmitchell68891]

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

It must have been a model to fit on an A4 sized cover.

 

John S.

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Lucky man – I just wish I could get one of my subscription copies on the publication date, never mind one or two days before.- anyway, who reads the cover? – it can be blank for all I care.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Might I point out that without full size, you would not have models.

As for the rolling hills of Devon, without them we would not have Cream teas and that would be a great shame.

chriStephens 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have to agree with Chris there, I don’t hear complaints when a full size loco or traction engine is on the cover. There are people (not many)  who make model tractors so why can’t they have some inspiration on the cover How would someone make something like this without photo’s

 

There were also several traction engines, stationary engines and an old lathe in the article

 

Jaso

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 21/07/2010 09:19:54

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

I thought Old Glory magazine had arrived by mistake. 4 pages on a vintage Rally isn’t model engineering. We even get to see the same tractor picture thats on the cover again in the article.

I have bought every copy of MEW since the first issue but have just cancelled by subscription. I am reading the same items in each magazine. 

The editorial is the same and the same products are reviewed.

I shall probably be cancelling ME soon too. I have subscribed since 1984.

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Chris and Jason get the point.

 

First, the model bit.  ME has always looked to the original as the inspiration and detail for the models.   There are members of this site who build scale model motorcycles, cars and their engines, traction engines, stationary engines and farm machinery.  It’s not size that matters here, but the desire share information and use engineering methods to achieve an end.

 

 Second, all of the machinery exhibited at the South Hams Meet, with the exception probably of my Royal Enfield, have taken their owners thousands of hours work, using exactly the same technology as model engineers to rebuild and remanufacture magnificent pieces of equipment. 

 

Or, could it be that instead of a steam tractor on the front cover, the offence is caused because the editor has chosen one of its humble internal combustion driven brethren.

 

Ian

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The one thing I will disagree with is the description of the said tractor its a MF 65 not 35.

 

And before anyone assumes i’m a tractor anorack, I’m not its just that one of my clients has just bought a 65.

 

Jason

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

That would be either my fault typing it in, or the program was wrong.  Mind you, I used to work for Massey Ferguson, so I have no excuse, where the program is just a piece of paper.

 

Ian 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I just looked at the number on the side

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I can’t agree. Right through its history ME has regularly featured likely prototypes for models on its cover, and carried reviews of full size steam rallies.

 

My retirement project is a quarter-scale Fordson.

 

I’ll go for anything that dilutes the railway content a little.

 

 

Neil

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Guys,

There was a time when ME used to have articles  for things like full size cine projectors or domestic refrigerators, it was never for just models or railways, how times have changed. 

chriStephens 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Gidday, its not the first time a Fergie has been on the cover, there was one yrs ago, think it was owned and driven by Dr ——(can’t remember his name), but if we did’nt have these images every now and then– well we’v got to get ideas from some where, and different people get there ideas in different ways.Ian S C

[KeithParticipant @keith]

Don’t see a problem with the picture – anything that inspires future models can only be to the good. It did look odd to me as a 35 – but MF did produce some hybrid tractors that were for export – I once drove one that didn’t make it out of the country.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hey, that’s not a MF35: it’s a MF65.

 

For a start, the ’35 type had a similar front grill to the orginal Grey Fergie (TED20). Secondly, the front axle of the ’35 was the same as or similar to the TED20.

Thirdly, the ’35 had similar wheels to the TED20.

 

I admit it doesn’t look as big as I remember the ’65, but we all know how reliable 40 year old memory is.

 

How do I know? Spent many happy hours on top of a TED20, drove at a friends farm the original Grey ’35, and finally had the memorable experience of driving a ’65 with only one brake working! And that was on a Yorkshire hill farm.

 

Finally, have a look at this: http://www.tractordata.co.uk/massey_ferguson/pages/massey_ferguson_65_1962/index.htm.

 

Alternatively just type in to Google MF 65 and look at second item down. 

 

FWIW, I always thought the ’65 to be big and numb whilst the ’35 was a useful little tractor good in confined spaces.

 

By the way, although I don’t take ME anymore (it doesn’t appeal to me), I remember there being a picture of a John Deere tractor on the front – big single cylinder jobby I think and which required a starting pistol cartridge to get it running.

 

I also think someone did a model landrover once. Apache? That also appeared on the front. As has a Triumph motorbike in MEW.

 

Anyway, I like the Fergie – brought back some memories!

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 19/07/2010 16:52:58

[Donald MitchellParticipant @donaldmitchell68891]

You’re all missing my point! (except Engine Builder)

 

It doesn’t matter a monkey’s if it is an MF 35 or a 65

 

The whole point of my original posting is why is there a vintage rally report in a model engineering magazine – surely that sort of report belongs in other magazines ?

 

I pay out my hard earned dosh for engineering in my M.E.

 

 Donald Mitchell

Castle Douglas
Bonnie Scotland

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 21/07/2010 09:11:44

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

But it is engineering.  Was the full size stationary engine on the front cover a while ago not appropriate either, or the full size traction engine, or perhaps the full size motor vehicle?  Sometimes we make 1:1 scale models of clocks, do they count?

 

Ian 

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

 

Posted by Donald Mitchell on 19/07/2010 18:17:08:

You’re all missing my point! (except Engine Builder)

 

It doesn’t matter a monkey’s if it is an MF 35 or a 65

 

The whole point of my original posting is why is there a vintage rally report in a model engineering magazine – surely that sort of report belongs in other magazines ?

 

I pay out my hard earned dosh for engineering in my M.E.

 

 Donald Mitchell

Castle Douglas
Bonnie Scotland

 

Looks like you and me are alone on this one Donald!

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 21/07/2010 09:12:55

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Donald,

If you have not realized that “Model Engineer” is a euphemism for all forms of Engineering, other than the real “Heavy” stuff, I think you are, perhaps, reading the magazine for the wrong reasons.

 

Vintage rally contents are aspirational  for the rest of us, who would not love to own a full size Traction Engine or even a humble Hit and Miss stationary engine or perhaps even a farm Tractor! Most of us have to settle for tiny versions.(boo hiss)

 

Lighten up and read the bits you find interesting and ignore the rest, just like the rest of us, more or less, satisfied readers do. It is completely impossible to satisfy all of the people all of the time or do you think the magazine should be solely aimed at you alone?

chriStephens 

 

Well said Chris, I think you have succinctly summed the whole matter up!
Kelvin Barber

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 21/07/2010 09:17:23

[Donald MitchellParticipant @donaldmitchell68891]

Ian, you’re still missing my point.

 

I’m not greatly bothered about the tractor on the front cover, I’m quite happy with machinery of any sort on the cover; although I would prefer it to be a model.

 

Once again, its the suitability of a report of a vintage rally within M.E. which I’m questioning, rather than model engineering – of any sort.

 

I think I’ll give up and shut up now.

 

Happy engineering all.

 

 Donald Mitchell

Castle Douglas
Bonnie Scotland

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Donald & Engine Builder,

 

Ok, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a ’35 or a ’65. Similarly does it really matter what’s on the front cover?

 

Put it another way. Why do you buy the magazine? Is it because of the front cover? Or is it because of the content? I submit that most of us on these forums buy these magazines because of the internal content. In which case the cover is totally irrelevant.

 

Another way to look at is to consider what is the purpose of the front cover? Is it attract the regular subscribers? Hardly, because being “regular” they are going to get it willy-nilly. No, the purpose of the front cover is like the purpose of the greengrocer’s shop window. Or any shop window for that matter. I.e. to attract people to have a look inside and perhaps buy. In my view, someone who buys either of these magazines because of the cover isn’t really into engineering as such, because if they were, then they would scan the contents page and then make a decision whether to buy or not.

 

For what it’s worth, exactly the same discussion arose in MEW some time ago when Dave Fenner’s daughter graced the front cover “wrapped” around a lathe. There were adverse comments about the suitability of the attire etc. But exactly the same arguments as I have outlined above applied in that instance.

 

Gentlemen, you are also asking why does a vintage rally report appear in an engineering magazine. Surely steam is vintage, and from what I remember of ME there was a lot of that in it. Along with all sorts of other things, most of which were of no interest to me. What about the reminiscences of various people from times past about mills and their machinery?Or doesn’t that matter because it’s steam? It’s all engineering.

 

Anyway, let’s be honest about one thing. We’ve all had our say, and no doubt the editor and his sidekick will be reading this with interest. Also, you could consider filling in the survey that comes out every so often and usually, I think, ask for any other comments.

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Nigel HydeParticipant @nigelhyde97004]

I have to agree with Donald Mitchell on this front

why do we need a rally report in model engineer?

and as for the front cover i would prefer to see someones model on the front.

i was a subscriber (until this week) i just feel its not scratching where i itch!

[Archie CarneParticipant @archiecarne24701]

Lorrer hot air missing Donald’s point.  I agree with Donald Mitchell, I was disgusted when I read my ME with valuable pages covering a subject (vintage rally) which has no direct reference to model engineering.. I fell out with Model Engineer 40 years ago for pursuing such a policy to extremis, I hope this is not the start of a similar policy   Archie (Burrell)

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Hi 

I have never been to a rally that did not have some model traction engines chuffing around (and often a model tent), at rallies I look for these first, weren’t they’re any at this rally. I don’t mind rally articles provided there is some model content, I did not notice any photos of models so did not read the article.

 

While I like to see the full scale for real, in the magazine it’s the models that give me inspiration and interest. I love to see the achievements of other people.

All article should retain some model content, I don’t care much what it is, I prefer to see lots of variety, so long as it models. It’s great when some different and/or unusual modelling article is featured; I don’t care if it’s simple or complex.

For me a cover photo of a MODEL MF is more inspirational than the real thing.

Nigel

 BTW the rest of the magazine is a good blend for me, all interesting.

Edited By tractionengine42 on 21/07/2010 01:50:48

Edited By tractionengine42 on 21/07/2010 01:55:38

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