Martin Evans books

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

I have an option to buy either a 1964 edition of the ‘Manual of Model Steam Locomotive Construction’, or a 1983 edition of ‘The Model Steam Locomotive’ but I am unsure which would be more useful for a relative beginner attempting their first steam loco model. Prices for each are similar. I have not had the opportunity to peruse the contents of either book as they are in other parts of the world so have no idea on their suitability.

Any suggestions?

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I have a 1978 edition of MoMSLC. It covers quite a lot of general principles and design considerations for various gauges. I wouldn’t however see it as particularly useful for someone setting out to build an established design, especially a fairly well known one. I’ve not read “The Model Steam Loco”.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Whatever you do, do shop around. I would hate to pay the $540 Amazon are asking for the later edition, only to find out Camden Press sell it for $36. I can’t work out how Amazon gets these crazy prices.

Even Abe Books, owned by Amazon, lists used older editions for $10 while others are $250. Just crazy.

At $10 I would buy both editions!

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Another worthy of consideration is LBSCs Simple Model Locomotive Building. The first you mention was first published in 1960, I have the revised 1962 edition. It covers most aspects though not in great depth, as you might expect in such a large subject. Evans covers Valve gears and boilers in 2 separate Volumes. Noel.

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

When I started model engineering, I purchased his Manual of Model Steam….

Totally useless for actually building something.

Martin

[Hopper]

On Hopper Said:

Whatever you do, do shop around. I would hate to pay the $540 Amazon are asking for the later edition, only to find out Camden Press sell it for $36. I can’t work out how Amazon gets these crazy prices.

Even Abe Books, owned by Amazon, lists used older editions for $10 while others are $250. Just crazy.

At $10 I would buy both editions!

Amazon isn’t controlling the price, the vendor is.  And they’re using software to set the price based on availability of the book.  It’s pretty stupid, because a lot of books should just be $5 or so.  It’s also stupid, because it’s just plain wrong.  Economies are demand-based.  They’re incorrectly operating under a supply-side model.  But if nobody wants your product, it’s worth nothing.  I’ve seen some books priced in the thousands of dollars.  No joke.  Which also makes it sad, because nobody is going to buy them and they’ll get unused and unappreciated.

Mike

 

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Book prices are sometimes silly there are several books that I would like but not willing to pay price, that said my wife likes antique shops and when about and about when she ‘rooting’ I head straight to check out any book in there and have had a couple of lucky finds.

H

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

I would find one of Kozo Hiraoka’s books; any one of them. (or, Live Steam magazines with his articles)

I found one of Kozos’ books at a local hobby store (the Shay #1) for $15.00 + GST – that’s that, about 8 to 10 pounds. One of our club members now has it in his possession.

ANY of his books give many more details than any of the Martin Evans’ books. Now, some of Kozo’s books are in metric, others in inches with “North American” fasteners.

Just my opinion, but have built The Hiraoka Shay #1 edition, and his words and music were spot on. I’m finishing an older project (Martin Evans “Ivatt”) locomotive, and it’s comparatively a shambles compared to Kozo’s work.

Again, just my opinion; a good friend built Martin Evans’ Conway from plans and had a fairly easy time of it.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Perko –

It rather depends on what sort of information you want: how a steam engine works or how to build and operate one; and then if you want general machining advice or specific information such as on like boiler-making, boring the cylinders or setting the driving and coupled wheels correctly.

 

Martin –

I have a copy of Martin Evans’ book and agree it is a not a manual on how to build any specific locomotive, nor how to machine metal, but that is not its purpose.

That can only be done with a book specific to that engine, such as LBSC’s one on the ‘Tich’. As far as I know Evans did not write any such even for his own designs.

Evan’s book gives some information and ideas on making specific parts of a locomotive but it mainly sets out to show the basic principles of designing and building locomotives. The rest of the skills needed are covered by other texts, such as on turning, milling, joining, etc.

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

 

I have a copy of Martin Evans’ book and agree it is a not a manual on how to build any specific locomotive, nor how to machine metal, but that is not its purpose.

That can only be done with a book specific to that engine, such as LBSC’s one on the ‘Tich’. As far as I know Evans did not write any such even for his own designs.

Martin Evans did actually write a book for at least one specific design, ie “Simplex”. It’s not a bad book with a reasonable amount of construction notes. It gives sufficient design information to build the loco without access to the full size drawings. Quite a good first project resulting in model that performs well on the track.

The most detailed ME construction book I have come across is Bill Hughes’ “Allchin”, not a loco of course.

 

 

 

 

 

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If you’re in UK you can borrow my copy, gets a bit expensive sending across the world

[Paul MParticipant @paulm98238]

I have both copies and although worth reading they have never been much use for a novice builder.  Probably better to join a club or search YouTube.

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

Thanks for all the replies. I should give some background, I have recently completed my first loco (a 5-inch gauge rod-drive petrol engine model of a local prototype in Queensland Australia) and have started the design of a 5-inch gauge model of an early Queensland Railways steam loco using a GA drawing obtained from the Govt Archives. I’m ok with the basics such as frame, axles, bearings, springs, etc which I have already built, and have our local boiler code to guide me on the boiler design. I’m therefore not a novice builder, but because I am not following an established design there are many things that I need to work out, such as lubricator, axle pump, firehole door, backhead fittings, safety valves, and many others. I have the LBSC Shop, Shed and Road book, plus a modest collection of ME’s from mostly the 50’s and 60’s so I have plenty of information available, but it’s scattered all over the place and I thought a single volume book like that of Martin Evans might prove worthwhile. I can get either book for about $35 Australian so it’s not expensive, but I just wondered which would prove more useful. I might see if my local library is able to obtain one, they usually have access to the larger state or national libraries which, if I’m lucky, might hold a copy. Otherwise I might just bite the bullet and buy both!

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Ah – I responded then your post appeared on my computer just as I did so!

You’ve answered the basic question I had asked, and this shows you and I are faced with a somewhat similar difficulty, so I have re-written my message.

 

Common details like the lubricator, motion-work etc. have of course to be designed specifically for the locomotive but a book like that by Martin Evans will help you do that by showing their basics. Really, it’s a matter of collecting all the information you can!

 

I have similar problems because as my main project is a steam-wagon built from no drawings at all apart from a patent specification, just old publicity photographs, basic descriptions and sparse dimensions given in the manufacturer’s catalogue and trade-magazine reviews published more than 100 years ago.

So to try to design the model I have to use a combination of old “full-size” engineering, and modern model-engineering, text-books – including Martin Evans’ book on model locomotive building.

[MikeK]

On MikeK Said:

On Hopper Said:

Whatever you do, do shop around. I would hate to pay the $540 Amazon are asking for the later edition, only to find out Camden Press sell it for $36. I can’t work out how Amazon gets these crazy prices.

Even Abe Books, owned by Amazon, lists used older editions for $10 while others are $250. Just crazy.

At $10 I would buy both editions!

Amazon isn’t controlling the price, the vendor is.  And they’re using software to set the price based on availability of the book.  It’s pretty stupid, because a lot of books should just be $5 or so.  It’s also stupid, because it’s just plain wrong.  Economies are demand-based.  They’re incorrectly operating under a supply-side model.  But if nobody wants your product, it’s worth nothing.  I’ve seen some books priced in the thousands of dollars.  No joke.  Which also makes it sad, because nobody is going to buy them and they’ll get unused and unappreciated.

Mike

 

There’s method in the madness!  The vendor pays a market-place like Amazon to host the advert, and is allowed to edit the price but not much else without being charged.  When the item is in stock, the vendor makes the price realistic, and customers order it.  When the item is out-of-stock, the price is raised sky high as a strong hint that customers should look elsewhere.   Manipulating the asking price is cheaper and easier than taking adverts down and republishing them.   The asking price is a temporary signal, not what they expect to be paid.

There’s at least one exception.   Many book sellers provide a search service, where, if they don’t have a copy themselves, they will hunt one down.    Most commonly used to obtain rare books, at extra cost.   The buyer pays significantly over the odds because he wants it desperately.

Dave

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

An update, I have been able to source a 1962 edition of the Manual of Model Steam Locomotive Construction through the Queensland State Library which has reciprocal lending arrangements with my local public library so the book will be delivered to my local library in about a weeks time. I assume I will have the usual 2 weeks lending period with an option to extend it if there have been no other requests. Looks like my scanner might be getting a workout soon!

[Author]

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