Mankind occupies a strange place in the ecosystem !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

… as this story, from the Smithsonian, nicely demonstrates : **LINK**

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/scientists-are-making-cochineal-a-red-dye-from-bugs-in-the-lab-180979828/

Consider the layers of self-interest that have driven this endeavour

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

It's rather long.

I didn't find the punchline.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

I found the Genome Study work, refered to on the same link far more interesting

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Oh well

MichaelG.

[Perko7Participant @perko7]

Intriguing to think that people who may balk at the use of natural dye extracted from dead bugs could be happy to use synthetic dye extracted from living genetically modified microbes. I know which one I would prefer.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Perko … we’re on the same page

Also strange to think how much effort has been expended over the centuries, catering to various whims.

MichaelG

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

And once upon a time, we were part of the natural food chain

Once dead and buried, we probably are, but in different position in the hierarchy!

Howard

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Perhaps, like Procedures, Put in our Place at last?

And even then, only if by woodland or sea burial.

What would be more to the point is not synthesising dyes per se, but finding sensible, sustainable alternatives generally to petroleum and coal derivatives once either depletion or 'Er from Sweden has made them no longer available. So perhaps microbial cochineal is a start in the right direction.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

My reading of the article tells me the chief reason for the engineered version is not vegan sensibilities but rising prices of the natural product and a supply that cannot keep up with demand.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Probably true, Bill … Vegan sensibilities make a good cover story

What intrigued me was that Mankind has [for the sake of an attractive, but otherwise generally useless colouring]:

• Harvested and processed countless numbers of beetles
• Tried to use Aniline dyes as a substitute
• … with the consequent effect on health
• Is now genetically modifying another life-form
• … with who knows what what consequences ?
• Persisted in “needing” this pretty colour to enhance appearance.
• … despite having more urgent matters to attend-to.

Gratuitous, or what ?

MichaelG.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

On holiday in Lanzarote I found that one of the local products is cochineal, as it is pretty much a desert landscape there are limited opportunities for farming and cochineal production is probably a reasonable living. I hope the engineered product doesn’t put them out of business.

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

In defence of artificial dyes, biologic microscopists noticed they differentially penetrated the various parts of cells structures, leading to medical advances based on understanding cells. Even more usefully, the effect was applied to drugs, allowing them to be aimed at particular organisms and cancers, whilst providing the foundations of modern pharmaceuticals.

Of course humanity having drugs that actually work, rather than granny nostrums, means more of us survive to want lots more pretty colours…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Mike Poole on 30/03/2022 14:59:01:

[…]

… cochineal production is probably a reasonable living. I hope the engineered product doesn’t put them out of business.

.

that’s one of several thoughts that crossed my mind this morning, Mike

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/03/2022 17:53:41:

In defence of artificial dyes, biologic microscopists noticed …

.

But … In the case for the prosecution: I know, from personal experience, that ‘Sunset Yellow’ is a powerful allergen … to the extent that I cannot tolerate its inclusion as a colouring in tablets and capsules: My prescribed medications must be either plain white, or coloured with Iron Oxide.

MichaelG.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Well, at least you have a range of colours available. Rouge is red, magnetite is black, so a mix can supply browns. And if you allow a bit of harmless carbon-dioxide into the mix, the whole range of ochres.

cheers, Tim

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 31/03/2022 12:26:53:

Well, at least you have a range of colours available. Rouge is red, magnetite is black, so a mix can supply browns. And if you allow a bit of harmless carbon-dioxide into the mix, the whole range of ochres.

 

Fair comment, Tim … and surely that is all the more reason to not put known allergens into medicines !

Two particularly ludicrous instances were:

• Dispersible Aspirin tablets, coloured with ‘Sunset Yellow’
• Ramipril capsules which were coloured with “Yellow Iron Oxide” [sic] which, on further investigation, turns-out to be the descriptive name of a particular Aniline dye !

MichaelG.

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Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/03/2022 21:31:43

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