Magazine photo placement.

[Coggy ClapsaddleParticipant @coggyclapsaddle]

[Coggy ClapsaddleParticipant @coggyclapsaddle]

I'm sure there is a logical reason for this but I've got to get it off my chest. I enjoy reading MEW but I find one aspect really annoying, that is the placement of photos compared to the text. The text will mention photo numbered 3 but when I look for photo 3 it is on another page or even in some cases two pages back and then I get involved in a lot of page turning just to see what the text is talking about. Is it just me that finds this a pain?, probably so.

Is there some reason for this sort of layout?

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Coggy, I agree with your comments and MEW is not the only culprit in this respect and of another frustrating event not mentioned by you. It is this, photos generally, often too small to see detail clearly and some photos of workshops where the background includes something of interest, perhaps another machine or tool.

John

Edited By DMB on 29/12/2022 08:33:18

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Can't really win – crop down a photo so it can be enlarged to see detail or leave it as is and you don't get the item of interest in the background.

A lot depends on what gets sent in for the editors to use, even cropping and blowing up to show detail may not work as the image can become pixelated

Image orientation is another factor, I send all my images and drawings in landscape format and un edited, if someone sends in a bunch of photos taken on a phone held in portrait that have been cropped and rotated then the image will need editing and size altering again by the editor or they may just have to be arranged as best as possible if resizing reduces clarity of the image

If the text has a long section of description and then covers what is in the photos all in a paragraph or two then you can get the problem of laying it out where you want to keep text together or break up text to keep the photos together. Also depends on how the images fit on the page as certain shapes/sizes may not work on the same page. Add in a drawing or two that may also take up a full page and that will again affect where text and images can be placed.

The other thing to consider in this digital age is that magazine viewers don't display the typical two page view as you would see it in a paper magazine. so what may look right at the time of editing may not look right on paper or screen depending on how the editing software is showing. Typical example is a drawing printed as a double page spread is fine on paper but on a digital viewer you end up with half and half. Same would apply to photos that may have been placed opposite the text as they will now be on a different digital view.

Edited By JasonB on 29/12/2022 08:52:37

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

It's mostly down to how the author spaces out references to pics in their text. If an author puts in six references to pics in the first few paragraphs, then no more until halfway through the story, obviously some of the pics relating to the early text will end up on the same page as some of the later text, because there is a limit to how many pics you can fit on one page and still have room for text.

And some subjects etc do not lend themselves to pic references at regular intervals. Plus it depends too on what pics the author took while he or she was working on the project. I often get involved in the job and forget to take pics of some critical stage, then remember and take a load of pics of the next stage, so when it comes to putting it all together there are patches of "feast or famine".

And remember, a lot (probably most) ME and MEW contributors are not publishing professionals, but simple home hobbyists having a go. So don't expect National Geographic.

[GaunlessParticipant @gaunless]

LBSC wrote for years with virtually no photos at all, and it was still entertaining.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

While I agree with Coggy, I also understand the problems as stated by Jason and Hopper, so. Noel.

[Coggy ClapsaddleParticipant @coggyclapsaddle]

I don't mean to be critical, it is a great mag and the contributors do a great job. It just a bug when your trying to reference the text to a photo especially if I'm not familiar with the technique or item and trying to learn from it. It is certainly a problem in some other mags as well.

Edited By Coggy Clapsaddle on 29/12/2022 14:39:14

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Having written a few articles my sympathies are with the editor who has to finesse whatever rough diamonds are contributed by his authors into the space and format available. Must be like assembling a jigsaw puzzle from random pieces provided by a crowd.

I imagine contributions vary tremendously from digital professional quality to handwritten notes with blurry photographs and incomprehensible sketches. The magazine seems to put more emphasis on publishing interesting work than insisting on the author having top quality production values, but it means the editor and team have to put a lot more effort into beautifying and organising contributions. The originals might not be crystal clear.

Some of the images I provided were general scene setters that could go almost anywhere or be left out entirely. Others went with particular sections of text. It's hard work for the author to indicate this, typically by putting a marker in the text 'picture 4 near here' in the text. These instructions are easy to get wrong and the editor has to them strip out. I provided an indexed list of images in hope of clarifying which was which.

No idea whether Neil used it or not, but I created a PDF of the finished article complete with images where I thought they should all go. I used it as part of my checking process; asking does this make sense as a whole. It's amazing how obvious errors creep past: it's because anyone close to the work reads what they expect to see, not what it actually says.

So I sent the editor:

• The plain text in an acceptable word processor format with referenced hints about image placement.
• A folder full of JPG images, plus an index giving a reference number and description of what they were.
• A PDF of the whole article in A4 format, with images placed where I, the author, would put them. This document is just a hint because the magazine isn't in A4 format, and the article will always have to be structured rather differently in print.

A magazine issue is assembled from these and other contributions individually laid out as their authors see fit. The editor has to bring a disparate range of stuff together, a job that might require major changes to the text, creating new images, and working round images that can't be made printable. There's more to being an editor than fixing a few spelling and grammar mistakes! Depending on what Neil gets, I'd imagine some MEW issues are straightforward to put together, whilst others are a nightmare. Of course mistakes are bound to be made!

Was it done better in the past? Maybe. One of my Model Engineering mags from the late fifties / early sixties lists a gigantic editorial team, from memory more than a dozen people. Hard to see how they were all paid! I think the modern magazines are produced by much smaller teams, and all in glorious technicolour too.

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 29/12/2022 15:48:56

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

One problem with past magazines was they always put the last 1/4 or 1/3rd page on text in any old space they could find often several pages after the rest of the text and images appeared so it's not something new.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Whilst I appreciate the frustration expressed by the OP, any aspiring author can ask Neil for the contributors notes – running to some 9 pages – which, if adhered to, would assist the editor in the layout of the submitted article. I only have the notes for MyTimeMedia contributions dated 2014, but I would think that the Mortons Media guidelines follow much the same principles.

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It's very difficult to get this right. Unfortunately, photos rarely fall evenly through an article, and even if they do sometimes, there are other limitations due to the need to crop or resize. We try hard to keep all the photos in the same issue as the text but failed to do this on one article in the last issue, which is rare but was frustrating.

At least we try very hard to avoid orphaning the last few paragraphs as Jason describes (this was more common in US publications in the past) and has become easier to do now we can resize things relatively easily.

As John says, drop me an email if you'd like to try your hand at an article. New authors are always welcome, and I suggest starting with something relatively short.

meweditor@mortons.co.uk

Thanks,

Neil

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

I don't see the layout issue the OP mentions as a big problem. Just my opinion.

[Coggy ClapsaddleParticipant @coggyclapsaddle]

Posted by Jeff Dayman on 30/12/2022 00:22:00:

I don't see the layout issue the OP mentions as a big problem. Just my opinion.

It's not a big problem just bugging at times when as a newbie I'm trying to understand something. I wish I'd never posted now, I'm not knocking the the hard work of anyone I was just wondering why photos relevant to certain text was sometimes pages apart. Now I see the problems encountered.

Thanks to all who make MEW a good mag.

[Author]

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