Machining a kurt clone vice

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

Im trying to find the best way to remove the front lip on a kurt clone vice

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

I have a wm16 mill with a selection of hss bits and a couple of 3 flute carbide bits. I bought a 4" kurt clone, much like ths arc versatile vice. Ive stripped and cleaned it and im super happy with it. However the vice does hang over the front of the table and as such collides with the way cover when the y axis is wound in. Its not a huge deal but to minimise this i was hoping to remove the front lip and gain back roughly 20mm of travel.

My first question is, is this a terrible idea?

My second question is, how would i go about this? I have done a cursory search, but the internet in its ultimate wisdom assumes i am looking for a machine vice, not looking to alter one. Looking at cutting cast iron suggests its possible on a mill, or using a diamond wheel on an angle grinder (which i have niether of) i have an evolution rage miter saw for trimming stock, but i doubt this is suitable, a hacksaw and a rather piddly 75mm cut off wheel. As such i am assuming im best trying to mill it, but not sure what tooling i would be best with, or if I really should avoid it!

Cheers in advance,

Michael

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Don't worry you won't get chucked off the forum for having such thoughts.

You could remove the bulk of the unwanted material with a hacksaw or thin 1mm metal cutting disc in an angle grinder and then tidy up on the mill.

If that does not appeal then clamp a sturdy bit of bar to the mill table and then tighten the vice to that with it upside down. No take say a 6mm dia milling cutter and mill a slot across the end to "cut" off the bit you don't want, go say 1.5mm deep per pass.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

My larger vise bumps the column when the table is wound back. I intend, at some time, to mill off the back for two reasons. First to make the extra travel and, second, to machine the rear edge as a rough (but close) setting for mounting the vise – bump the vise against the column and it should be very close to trammed.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

One thing I would add is to think about leaving a small step at the back rather than mill it off flush. My thinking is that these vices have the facility to hold large items by altering the jaw layout and to take full advantage of this the vice may need to be fixed along the table rather than across it so the step will allow you to clamp the end to the table.

There is another member who gets round this in another way and he will probably post a photo later.

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

Cheers for the swift response,

I will try a hacksaw and see how awful it is, and failing that will go for the slotting method. The tramming idea is neat too, though i assume the way cover would get in the way!

As for leaving a lip at the front, would it be better to do this, or to take about 3mm off of the bolt slots? Mounting it sideways i can see if i went in 3mm on each side it would line up with my T slots, allowing me to use the same mounting holes and removing the need to leave much of a lip

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you can use the outer two tee slots with a bit of modification then the end can be cut off flush.

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

Awesome, thanks for your help!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

You mean like this? Front lip circled in red.

I advise caution hacking lumps of metal off tools because it may be there for strength or to improve rigidity. But in this case, I think the lip is just to discourage coolant dripping off the front of the vice. Might be worth having if flood cooling is your thing, otherwise not. Off with it!

Should be fairly easy to remove. I'd clamp the vice upside down direct on to the milling table and mill it off. Otherwise a hacksaw and some sweaty hard labour would do it, approached from underneath Although Cast-iron is fairly soft once you get through the outer skin (already machined off the bottom), the lip might be chilled hard throughout. If so, bad luck! But persistence will get through it eventually. A cheap angle grinder fitted with any metal cutting wheel would do it easily – no need for diamonds.

Beware – cutting cast-iron is always horrid messy and angle grinders fling muck everywhere. Worth taking steps to contain cast-iron – lay sheets of paper, catch it in a box, good clean and change out of a boiler suit before leaving the workshop. Wear a hat – hair full of graphite is nearly as good as a paint brush. Above all don't stand in it and then walk across herself's snow-white carpet…

Dave

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I milled the back lip off mine by flipping it upside down and using the jaws to clamp to the table tee slots

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

Well, half an hour of relatively relaxed hacksawing and its off. I think it likely would have been faster to mill it off as its only around 12mm thick.

Dave, yes thats the one, but i am doing the opposite side (not the ine with the handle)

With it all said and done i took off 19mm, not a huge amount but when you have 175mm of travel, its certainly not insignificant!

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 19/02/2021 11:14:00:

Beware – . Wear a hat – hair full of graphite is nearly as good as a paint brush. Above all don't stand in it and then walk across herself's snow-white carpet…

Dave

And you end up looking like Giuliani on a hot day

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Wear a suitable mask when cutting cast iron. otherwise your lungs will look like the rest of your workshop, black and messy.

[michael jobsonParticipant @michaeljobson]

All done, i modified the nut locations slightly and have managed to dramatically reduce the overhang.

All said and done, the hacksaw wasnt too bad but it was actually not a problem to mill when i was cleaning it up, 0.3mm radial cuts with full depth of cut was fine to whizz the wheel along.

Ive added a picture to show how much less overhang i have if anyone is interested

[ZanParticipant @zan]

Well done, a good solution

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

It's a job I need to do on my Arc Eurotrade vice, I'm never going to use flood coolant & the extra travel will be useful.

Tony

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It's a good idea when the length of the vise restricts both X and Y movements. I have addressed this with the 100mm Bison vises by cutting the rear lug off, but also enabling a bolt on lug just in case the vise needs to be fitted lengthways on the bed. You could make a bolt on lug if there was a need to.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I like that approach – machining the vice to take an angle-bracket for lengthways mounting.

The red paint nicely shows the milled pocket, but what are two rectangular patches approaching the slot? Do they show a slight channel already there in what looks like hot-rolled steel angle stock, or are they raised, shallow lands?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The bit of angle is cut from a piece of channel section girder. I didn't bother to mill right across. The thickness tapers from the angle towards the edges. When girder sections are bolted together, special washers with a matching taper are used to level things up.

This picture may show the slight taper.

 

Edited By old mart on 21/02/2021 18:13:09

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Ah , I see. I know the taper washers you mean. I think sometimes called beam-washers.

I think even have a slotted-angle made from structural angle, should I need modify my vice. It's not new, and the more pressing "modification" it needs is re-surfacing below the worst of the damage from careless or more likely, couldn't-care-less use. The latter because it's more than one or two small hollows, to the extent of making setting-up awkward.

'

I am making a 4"-scale steam-lorry, started a ridiculously long time passing, using 50 X 25 X 25mm channel for the chassis. A bit heavy, and possibly a bit over-thick on scale, but more prototypical than folded channel. I considered making beam washers for this but realised that on a 1/4" or M6 bolt, a spring-washer would do the same thing as well as its own thing, and is barely noticeable even before being painted over.

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