Machine vice opinions.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

^^^^^

I wish you hadn’t posted that Jason. I’ve just had a look, followed by shopping spree in Arc’s clearance section (not the vice, but quite a few other things).

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

That looks like a really good set up Dave (SOD), I’m surprised there aren’t more like that on the market (copies etc) Unfortunately it is a a fair bit out of my price range. Buying the the DRO has left it out of my range.

I’ll give ARC a call in the morning as Old Mart suggests (Cheers OM!).

The problem with calling Arc is I may end up in the same boat as Mark which could be very dangerous for the credit card..😬

If that fails then I’ll keep hunting for a used one.

[Taf_Pembs]

On Taf_Pembs Said:

That looks like a really good set up Dave (SOD), I’m surprised there aren’t more like that on the market (copies etc) […]

The patent is readily available on Espacenet, and is well-written and illustrated:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DGB2390558A

Use the little three-dot menu to access the downloadable pdf

Recommended reading, even if you can’t justify the price.

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Taf

Don’t be in too much of a hurry to get a type 2 vice. I bought one getting on for 10 years ago figuring I had enough jobs a vice of that style would be more suitable for.

Used it about 4 times in total! 3 experimental runs to try an once to get out of jail. In practice it pretty much never seems worth the effort of changing vices, and to some degree, methods when there are advantages over what I’ve learned to do with the Vertex VJ400. Yes swopping to the type 2 would have been objectively better but I manage well enough fast enough. Not a huge worry as I got it on discount and it pushed the order value up into enough to snag free postage so effectively it cost about a tenner. Worth it for that one job ‘cos I that was a paying one.

Reworking your small vice is likely to be a moderately futile endeavour. Back in the days when low price import quality control was seriously variable a fair number of articles, YouTubes et al were produced covering improvement efforts on various inexpensive vices. Lots of work seemed to be involved without commensurate gain. Folk trying to turn an already not very good drilling vice into a milling vice seemed to define hope over reason. Unless your basic jaw fit is good with smooth sliding movement and vertical parallel jaws you are pretty much on hiding to nothing. Not much to be done about too much slack unless you have the mythical “putting on tool” to add material prior to re-machining. Over the years I’ve spent, objectively, far too much time getting imitation silk purses out of sows ears to drive home the conclusion that it’s wise to start off with a sows ear of the very highest quality.

Hafta say that if I weren’t already more than adequately equipped I’d have taken a serious look at the Arc SG when it first came out and have recommended them to folk whose needs and wallets are a decent fit.

Looks like there are other suppliers of vices very similar to the Arc SG so all is not lost if they don’t re-stock. That said the more affordable brands don’t seem to have the angle loc, anti jaw lift, feature. Those that do seem to be economy(ish) end industrial and £350 up. That said I’m unconvinced as to the value of the pull down angle loc feature beyond anything other than the cherry on the top of an already accurate and well made vice with little inherent jaw lift to start with. Seems to me that there will be rapid frictional build up if the system is trying to control significant lift which will interfere with clamping forces et al. I seem to remember Arc advising that inspection and careful re-working in places might be needed to get the best out their vices so equipped. Arc have a very well deserved reputation for going that extra mile in selecting suppliers for reliable quality but there are limits as to what can sensibly be done at that price point.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Michael

A most interesting patent but I confess to not understanding what the actual novelty being patented is.

Can’t be the re-positionable jaw as I have a very battered vice in my collection which not only exhibits that feature but also has what appears to be better arrangements for lift free adjustment of the moving jaw. I’d be unsurprised to discover that it’s older than I am.

Arrived in an “if you can lift it you can have it” goodie box. Hadn’t the heart to throw it away.

Clive

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Good morning, Clive

I am not a Patent Examiner, so this is largely guesswork … but I am reasonably sure that an extant feature that has not been previously patented can be claimed as an invention by someone with the wit to do so.

.

.

It is the Patent Examiner’s role to assess the level of ‘novelty’ and particularly to determine whether, or not, the feature has been previously patented.

‘Prior Art’ is often referenced, as a “jumping-off point” for a claim, and I think that Douglas Brian House probably managed to do that successfully

… The Examiner cites four specific instances that he considered.

[the second of which is an earlier invention by DBH]

.

.

… All four can be found on Espacenet

MichaelG.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

What I like about the SG vice or the Kurt copies as I call them, is that the sliding jaw is pulled down when it clamps. The other great advantage is how easy they are to take apart and clean. Just 1 grub screw to undo by the handle and unlocks the mechanism that retains the 2 pieces.

With mine I made a nut to go where the heads of the screws went on the moving jaw. Then retained it with long screws from the back(M8) shortened to suite. Then the jaws use the M10 to hold on the outer ends for extra long pieces.

Extruded Aluminium is easy to make sacrificial jaws for a vice too. Drill tap to suite the vice or use as a protective piece between the hard jaws and work piece.

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Once a feature is in the public domain it cannot be the subject of a later granted and valid patent claim unless in combination with another feature so that the combination is novel and not obvious.  The examiner made 4 citations in the X category which indicates a lack of inventive step.  It looks like the application never made it beyond the initial stage so was allowed to lapse. Looks like the applicant did all the work himself without benefit of an agent, I suspect patent agent would have advised him not to bother filing.  In fact the bibliographic data shows that it lapsed or was withdrawn in 2007.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Arc Euro Trade.

No affiliation or bribery, yet again just a very happy paying customer.

Shortly after Old Mart suggested giving them a call to find out restock lead time on the 100mm SG vice, I had a message from Ketan to say give them a call as there could possibly be a display model but wasn’t sure.

I rang Ian this morning and, yet again, fantastic service. There was a display model bolted to a machine but unfortunately not any more as it is winging it’s way to me!

However, as said by Mark (and myself) above, calling them is dangerous as it is also being accompanied by a few other bits and bobs. Looks like no beer for me for a few weeks (months!) to cover that. 😲😒.

 

I am enjoying reading this thread, It’s a bit like starting someone starting a ‘what tyre’ thread on a motorbike forum (although this is far more civilised!) .. everyone has something that works for them and it is a pretty wide variety. Without seeing how everyone else works I think you tend to believe your solution if the best but there is always something else I suppose. I thought the Type 2 vice would be ideal for me but after reading here and a fair bit of searching, watching and reading on the interweb I came to the conclusion that is probably wasn’t the best solution for me. If you don’t ask you don’t know I suppose.

I look forward to reading more!

Cheers,

Taf.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Quite so, John … Well-spotted

MichaelG.

.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Good result, Taf, and nice to get excellent service from ARC. You will be pleased to get a vise which is a better fit for the mill. Now you might think of selling the Kurt, think of all the goodies that would finance.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I have a couple. I have the 100mm Arc kurt clone and the Warco DH1.

I bought the arc one about 10 years ago. Even though it is hard to beat for the price, to be honest I have never really been happy with it. The jaws aren’t parallel, the leadscrew has lots of play and the bearing has collapsed once. But it’s cheap soo…

The DH1 I’ve had about 12 months. So far I’m really happy with it. The quirky design takes a bit of getting used to but the versatility is great and the quality is much higher. The accessory jaws are a real boon too. But it is about 4x the price soo…

 

[Author]

Posts