Mach 3 64 Bit computer

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

HI,

My w/shop computer is dying. Its XP and going to replace it with a Window 7 machine.

Last time I thought of doing this I found that needed an adapter board to go with the 64 bit machine—is it still the same?

Thanks

Peter

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Yes, parallel port will run under W7 but only 32 bit.

Pays to stick with XP for a controller PC. Plenty about and plenty cheap enough, people are giving those away now.

[paul asselin 1Participant @paulasselin1]

so, XP it's 32 bit, windows 7, there is 32 bit and 64 bit, you have to choose, if in the computer ram>=4gb=it works 32 and 64 bit, if ram<4gb , so it's only 32 bit, what happens is that software 32 bit can work with 64 bit OS, but 64 bit software will not work with 32bit OS.

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

A little unclear so to verify

If the RAM is greater than 4Gb then it is only 64-bit …. If the RAM is under 4Gb then you can use 32-bit or 64-bit. (Although in 32-bit mode you will usually only see about 3.5Gb)

Dave

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Mach3 will only drive the parallel port on a 32 bit Windows machine. If you have a 64 bit PC you need to use a separate motion controller, preferably through an Ethernet interface. It is easy and cheap to buy a used 32 bit PC with XP, so if you want to continue to use the parallel port this is the best route. I think there is an option to install Win7 on a 32 bit PC, and M3 probably will work on that. Suggest you look on the Mach3 support site where I'm sure this question has come up many times.

[paul asselin 1Participant @paulasselin1]

Posted by Steambuff on 23/02/2016 11:39:56:

A little unclear so to verify

If the RAM is greater than 4Gb then it is only 64-bit …. If the RAM is under 4Gb then you can use 32-bit or 64-bit. (Although in 32-bit mode you will usually only see about 3.5Gb)

Dave

correction If the RAM is greater than 4Gb then you can use 64-bit and 32-bit(32bit os will allow you using only 3gb ram). If the RAM is under 4Gb then you can use only 32-bit .

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by paul asselin 1 on 25/02/2016 14:06:00:

Posted by Steambuff on 23/02/2016 11:39:56:

A little unclear so to verify

If the RAM is greater than 4Gb then it is only 64-bit …. If the RAM is under 4Gb then you can use 32-bit or 64-bit. (Although in 32-bit mode you will usually only see about 3.5Gb)

Dave

correction If the RAM is greater than 4Gb then you can use 64-bit and 32-bit(32bit os will allow you using only 3gb ram). If the RAM is under 4Gb then you can use only 32-bit .

Also Incorrect, you can run a 64bit OS in 4 GB or less, I have numerous windows server 2008 R2 and win 2012 machines and 64 bit Linux running in anywhere between 1 and 4G RAM in a large Virtualised datacentre.

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

All very confusing but I didn't bother, I just used a new 64 bit computer and a UC100 usb controller.

http://cncdrive.com/UC100.html

There is a UK reseller https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Motion-Control/UC100-USB-Motion-Controller

Seems expensive but in the long run much better and you can use any pc you want after that, I have my laptop setup with Mach 3 as well as the dedicated pc (laptop is a backup)
Easy to setup and you don't have to alter any settings as the UC100 connects direct to your breakout board and has the same pin out as the parallel cable.

Steve

[Steamer1915Participant @steamer1915]

Plus 1 for the UC100 usb controller. Windows 7 64 bit.

Steve.

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

Thanks for the replies

Sounds a very neat solution. I'd rather buy a new computer rather than have the same problems once again.

Do hey work wiith W10 and are they as good as they seem?

Peter

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Sorry, bit slow in answering.

PC is Windows 7 pro 64bit, laptop is windows 10 64bit

My mill is setup with homing switches in series, zero plate, Estop and the normal stepper pinouts. I don't use limit switches but no reason they wouldn't work.
I also have a USB Xbox controller setup.

Mill works smoothly and doesn't seem to have any problems and the Estop and homing switches work fine.

Originally I left the motor tuning as was but I've since retuned it.
I've now got another UC100 for my router as the PC that was running it was 16 years old and windows 2000, nothing wrong while it was running but it's started having boot problems which indicate the hard drive is failing so I intend using the laptop as the main control for that.

Steve

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

Going to take the plunge and buy a UC100 controller but notice that since I first looked into it they are readily available on ebay at all sorts of prices.

Has anyone bought one of these recently?

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

HI Peter,

There was some reports of fake UC100 controllers on ebay and there is a thread about this on the CNCdrive forum here:- **LINK**

Nick.

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the link which makes interesting reading. I suppose it depends on what works long term but there's no real way to find out apart from buying something and trying it hence my question. Its a lot like my experience has shown that many of the LED bulbs just dont last where branded ones do.

More reading reveals that the genuine UC100 not just a usb to parallel adapter but a true motion controller and a genuine UC100 would certainly be the easiest solution but its almost 2 years since I initially asked and a lot could have changed.

Peter

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Unless you're loading up monstrous files you're as well sticking with 32 bit

I gave up on 64bit, too slow, unstable, and prone to errors

In a few years(10 or so) 64 bit may be more flexible and mature

The latest incident was with irfanview

I tried to load every jpg thumbnail on her 64bit win7 pooter, the 64bit version crashed at about 35000 jpgs (we're hunting for a photo)

Testing the 32bit version on my XP machine was fine, 45 to 50000 jpgs so far

Will try the 32bit version on her 64bit machine later

Edited By Ady1 on 26/12/2017 11:36:40

[Peter BellParticipant @peterbell11509]

Following on from that advice borrowed a working 32 bit machine with XP.

Succesfully installed Mach from my disc but the computer crashes as it tries to open Mach every time.

Removed anti virus etc and its got plenty of memory, even tried a different copy of Mach but still get the same result!

Any suggestions what to try next most welcome!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ady1 on 26/12/2017 11:08:29:

The latest incident was with irfanview

I tried to load every jpg thumbnail on her 64bit win7 pooter, the 64bit version crashed at about 35000 jpgs (we're hunting for a photo)

A caution with Irfanview… by default bit saves space by loading images at 50% resolution. if you don't tell it not to you can end up batch resampling your images into much smaller ones than you want – GRRRR.

It may have made sense when computers only had megs of memory instead of several gigabytes…

Neil

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

There's a few flavours of XP

XP, pro with service pack 3 is the one I have found works best of all

I can't upgrade now lol, too much stuff works well, just bought another 775 Motherboard for when the current one goes poof

Whatever you do, try and get an SSD as your main drive, they're pretty fabby

Try installing MACH 3 about half a dozen times before you give up, pooters are funny things, my designspark mechanical took 3 or 4 shots and the best ABBEY package I found was a german one, which I reset to English

The big important software packages can be a bit hit and miss

Edited By Ady1 on 26/12/2017 21:26:54

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

EDIT on the SSD

It looks like amazon sellers could be firing out returned SSDs, I got mine from Currys/PC world in a sealed package

Just thought I should say

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Ady1 on 26/12/2017 21:20:25:

Whatever you do, try and get an SSD as your main drive, they're pretty fabby

They are fine for Windows 7 and above but for XP you need to do some tweeking to stop un-necessary writes to the SSD which could result in early wearing out.

Russell

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 27/12/2017 10:17:20:

Posted by Ady1 on 26/12/2017 21:20:25:

Whatever you do, try and get an SSD as your main drive, they're pretty fabby

… but for XP you need to do some tweeking

…

 

Hard to keep up with technology so I may be out-of-date but SSD on XP used to be a 'no-no' in corporate computing. Special cases apart, it was simply too expensive to tune the system and/or replace worn out SSDs on computers that worked hard for a living.

XP pre-dates SSDs; in it's ignorance XP behaves like the computer equivalent of a bad driver – it rides the clutch, spins the wheels, and does a lot of red-lining! In consequence an SSD on XP is likely to have a short life.

XP can be manually tuned to behave better with an SSD but it's not easy – advanced system admin, some of it.

• Alter the operating system so that it only writes to the SSD on 4kb boundaries, and infrequently. (There was a non-standard system plug-in for this.)
• Add the maximum amount of RAM possible. (To minimise paging, allow a RAM Disk, and to buffer writes more aggressively)
• Reduce the size of the paging file to the minimum possible without the system going unstable.
• Find an SSD vendor who provides an XP compliant TRIM command for his drives and run it regularly. (Very few did.)
• Set up a RAM disk and configure all the programs that write temporary files to use RAM rather than the SSD. (Requires detective work and a system resource tool-kit.)

I'm not sure how necessary this is today on a hobby computer. Modern SSDs have better built-in wear levelling that should reduce the damage XP does. On the minus side, no-one supports SSDs on XP because it's obsolete and really effective cooperation between SSDs and Microsoft didn't exist until Windows 7 and later. All bets are off – don't expect old computers to support new technology! On the plus side, an SSD installed on a lightly loaded XP machine might last 'long enough' for the owner to not care about the reduced lifetime. I expect a decent SSD would take a couple of years ill-treatment before flaking out!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 27/12/2017 17:50:12

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I've been beating the snot out of my SSD on XP for just over two years so far

Runs 24/7 most days, 80% chip load(overclocked)

I do OCR and PDF stuff, become a bit of an obsession really

The onboard software is meant to spread the load around on ssd drives, will revisit this thread if it ever fails

edit: On some jobs the drive goes down to 10GB left (usually about 50 GB) 120BG total size, I use a 2 terrabyte drive for storing stuff

Edited By Ady1 on 27/12/2017 18:52:33

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 27/12/2017 17:48:19:

I'm not sure how necessary this is today on a hobby computer. Modern SSDs have better built-in wear levelling that should reduce the damage XP does. On the minus side, no-one supports SSDs on XP because it's obsolete and really effective cooperation between SSDs and Microsoft didn't exist until Windows 7 and later. All bets are off – don't expect old computers to support new technology! On the plus side, an SSD installed on a lightly loaded XP machine might last 'long enough' for the owner to not care about the reduced lifetime. I expect a decent SSD would take a couple of years ill-treatment before flaking out!

Wear levelling works wonders. The SSD keeps track internally of how many times a storage cell has been written to. If that gets too high, it moves the data to an unused cell, or swaps with a used cell that has fewer writes. You can't wear out a single cell, you can only wear out the whole drive. In practice, this never happens.

The warning about old computers and new technology is also true. Been there, lost the battle. Personally, unless there is some compelling need to use an SSD with XP, 'spinning rust' would be the more predictable option. Always have a backup.

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