Lubrication of headstock bearings on a Clarke CL500M

[Howard LyneParticipant @howardlyne10956]

In my other posting I described my attempt at dismantling the headstock bearings of a Clarke CL500M. In doing this I think I may have discovered the source of the original problem.

It appears that the bearings rely on splash lubrication from the oil contained in the sump of the headstock. What I didn’t realise is that this can only occur when the drive to the automatic feed to the cross-slide is engaged. I haven’t done this for some time as I find it more convenient to wind the cross-slide along by hand. As a result I find that the top half of the interior of the headstock (and therefore the bearings) are quite dry of oil. Could this have led to the “tightening up” I mentioned in my other posting? If so I’m tempted to give them a good oiling and put it all back together again as they don’t appear worn.

Is this a common method of lubrication and are others aware of the need to engage the automatic feed in order to achieve it? There is no hint of it in the lathe manual.

 

Howard

[Howard LyneParticipant @howardlyne10956]

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Howard,

 

Any lathe I’ve ever seen or worked with has some provision to get clean oil to the spindle bearings regardless of whether auto feed is used or not.

 

If your lathe was designed without some method of oiling the bearings with good clean oil I would say that’s pretty bad design and construction. I’d be looking for a way to fit some accessible oiling pipes (with caps or plugs to keep dirt out) to get a drop or two there periodically.

 

JD

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Howard, before you reassembling your headstock, I would give the bearings a good wash out with a bit of paraffin and a paint brush to get ride of any small particals and gunge. Once you have cleaned them and allowed any excess paraffin to drain off, you can then lightly oil them with the recommended oil. Also clean out all the old oil in the headstock compartment, and make sure that your oil level sight glass is clean. Once it is back together, refill with clean oil.

 

I have to agree with Jeff, that it is a bad design if the bearings are not oiled in a natural way during all modes of operation.

 

You must of course make sure that the oil level is correct before each use, and if your sight glass is dirty, this can be difficult to achive.

 

Regards Nick.

[Howard LyneParticipant @howardlyne10956]

Jeff, Nick.

 

Thanks for your advice. My immediate problem is removing the spindle and bearings from the headstock. I think I’ve worked out how to do the pulling/pressing to remove them, but am trying to exhaust all sources of information before I make a start to minimise the potential for damage.

The bearings are roller bearings and the headstock arrangement seems to be similar for many other budget lathes (the Warco WMT 300/1 looks like a clone) so I’d have hoped, perhaps optimisically, that the provision for lubrication was adequate.

Thanks again for the advice. If I make progress I’ll let you know. If I have a disaster I may just keep quiet!

 

Howard

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Hello

I’m looking for info on Headstock Gear Oil for CL500M

This site (https://wiki.hackhitchin.org.uk/index.php?title=CL500M_Lathe) says:

EP80 or EP90 Gearbox oil

Does anyone know what oil to use AND how much is needed (e.g. will 1ltr be enough)?

cheers

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Danni, EP 90 is a standard oil used in many older rear wheel drive vehicles any GOOD motor factor should keep it in 1/2 or1 litre bottles. If they want a model say Landrover 2A rear axle 1966. Do not use multigrade or synthetic oil. For suppliers try MPD or the transmission specialists Hayley Group. Try not to get it on your hands as it has a not very pleasant smell that takes some getting rid of, but once smelt you will never forget it ! Good Luck Noel.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I’m half-minded to say for the sake of discussion that EP 80 or 90 sounds a bit heavy-duty for a lathe of this size & power?

I see that p23. of the manual only says ‘gear oil’…

– notwithstanding any better advice that might be forthcoming, if it were mine I’d probably see how it ran on H68…

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Before someone else mentions it, there is a school of thought that says the sulphur compounds in EP oils can damage bronze bearings – if there any in your gearbox? I think the GL5 spec is worse than the GL4. However, it seems this only occurs at temperatures above 100 centigrade, which hopefully your lathe does not reach, so probably not worth worrying about.

Rob

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Thansk Rob. I have seen that mentioned don a thread somewhere. I also saw an Oil Spec which mentioned, ‘Safe for use where Yellow Metals are present’. So I guess – I need to read that on whatever I purchase.

To be honest, guys – I know zero about Oils.

I’d love someone with a Clarke to just tell me exactly what (product code) they have been using so I can buy online.

cheers

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You could engage the feed for a few minutes without engaging the cross slide if that is all it takes to splash the bearings. Assuming that is possible.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Danni, Have a sniff of the oil in the box, if it has a distinctive smell then get 1/2 alitre of EP 90 and smell, it is it the same ? If yes use it. Otherwise bearing in mind the power Etc and it unlikely to run more than warm, use a straight 30 classic engine oil (iso68 ), (Morris lubricants)it’s made for engines reving to 5000rpm and a temp of 85 – 90 with piston temps much higher than that, so it is unlikely to any harm, running dry will be worse. Noel.

[Howard Lyne]

On Howard Lyne Said:

In my other posting I described my attempt at dismantling the headstock bearings of a Clarke CL500M. In doing this I think I may have discovered the source of the original problem.

It appears that the bearings rely on splash lubrication from the oil contained in the sump of the headstock. What I didn’t realise is that this can only occur when the drive to the automatic feed to the cross-slide is engaged.

…

Is this a common method of lubrication …

Howard

Do the headstock bearings need to be lubricated?  As the CL500M is a post-WW2 design, the spindle may have been fitted with shielded or sealed for life roller bearings.   The recommended oil may be for the gearbox below, not the spindle.

Sealed bearings are common because dirt and faulty maintenance are a major problem.  Seals keep dirt out and stop maintenance errors like wrong oil and over packing with grease.

External oil lubrication requires high cleanliness, both oil and feed, which is difficult to do, making splash lubrication risky.

Lathes with plain bearings often have total loss lubrication, whereby clean oil passes through the bearing once and keep the bearing clean by washing out worn metal particles and dirt.  Don’t re-lubricate with recovered oil!  Important that plain bearings are kept well oiled because there is always metal to metal contact at start and stop.  Roller bearings are less fussy because their design minimises metal to metal contact at all times.

Systems that recirculate oil, like car engines, are designed to keep oil clean.  Usually a sump, often with a magnet to trap steel particles, that separates dirt, metal-scrapings, water and emulsion.  Oil from above a separating tray is filtered when the engine re-uses it.   In these systems oil and the filter are replaced regularly during scheduled maintenance, and high-mileage engines may benefit from a flush.

Open roller bearings are meant to be used immersed in oil, as in a car gearbox.  But they also get used for cheapness in lightly loaded and hopefully clean situations.

Howard’s original worn bearing problem may not be lube related at all.   The CL500 is a built down to a price hobby lathe possibly fitted with inexpensive bearings in the factory.   Good enough for light duty, but wear quickly if the machine is worked hard, or the internals were particularly poorly finished.  If they fail, replace them with better – if you can afford it!   Taper bearings are a popular upgrade.

Dave

 

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

This is the filler pug

But does anyone know how to drain?

cheers

[Danni BurnsParticipant @danniburns84841]

Name that Oil?

I got this out with a welding rod – access from the filler plug.

I hoped for a distinctive smell (as per Noel above), but it wasn’t a strong or horrible smell. Maybe it smelled a little sour if anything – compared to some I had around (2 stroke, 68 slideway oil), which I thought smelled of nothing.

cheers

 

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Gear oil fortified with extra metal

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

When you sort out the oil put a magnet in where it cannot get tangled up in the works, then the steel particles won’t recirculate so easily.

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