looking for new 3d cad

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by Bazyle on 21/03/2023 14:04:07:

Going a bit off topic is there a next generation CAD working in virtual reality? Where I can pick up a bit of 2×4 virtual wood and put it in mid air, then add more to make a shed, adjusting lengths etc in a very visual but tactile way rather than laboriously defining dimensioned sketches of each timber. Then exit the virtual space to find I have a CAD drawing.

You could apply for a US Patent* on that idea, call it something snappy like "Reverse Virtual Twinning", and hype it up to a bunch of VC investors for megabucks!

​

In principle the technology is there, and I've seen some implementations of "VR with Haptic Control" over the years in research settings which made it seem very do-able.

My friend who worked in the automotive sector had a colleague who left to start a business developing something like this to allow early stage "clay model" development of bodyshells in a VR environment and cut the cost and time involved in model-making, I think they're still going.

However, it's massively resource intensive (like a whole cluster of 40+ servers intensive) and very niche.

​

The Chem-Eng department at the University of Loughborough has "the Igloo" which is a VR training facility to allow students to better grasp the complexity of a real world process plant and "walk around" in virtual designs to understand how their design decisions have an impact on the real world operability of the plant, which is the closest thing I know of which is currently running.

Bangor Uni did have a VR suite with full haptic control in their Chemistry department for visualising and manipulating the structures of complex biological molecules like proteins, but they closed the department which is now in the process of being demolished.

​

*The US patent office has long-standing issues with granting patents which should be invalid due to prior art or obviousness and letting people sort it out by challenging the validity in the courts later; it's particularly bad in fields where software and the real world cross over with amazon recently getting a patent for remote controlled lighting, whilst describing something which building automation companies have been doing since the dawn of PLC's 40+ years ago.

[JellyParticipant @jelly]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 21/03/2023 14:39:51:

Posted by Bazyle on 21/03/2023 14:04:07:

Going a bit off topic is there a next generation CAD working in virtual reality? Where I can pick up a bit of 2×4 virtual wood and put it in mid air, then add more to make a shed, adjusting lengths etc in a very visual but tactile way rather than laboriously defining dimensioned sketches of each timber. Then exit the virtual space to find I have a CAD drawing.

Why use a CAD drawing as the 3D print or other CAM ought to be fully integrated?

Mind you I am also getting flashbacks to Tony Hart and Morph!😂😂

Jokes aside, it's more like morph than you think!

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

As far as t'interweb is concerned there are good mobile options out there, 10quid 30GB deals have been on the telly recently

I dumped my bt connection and went virgin mobile a year ago here

you can stick it onto the end of a long usb cable and put it by a window

Edited By Ady1 on 21/03/2023 15:20:27

[Paul Mills 3Participant @paulmills3]

Posted by Ady1 on 21/03/2023 12:07:22:

What our forefathers could have done with this CAD thing in the 1940s 50s and 60s kinda makes me sad that they missed out, it just makes it so easy

they probably could have built space ships, steam engines, ships computers and all sorts of things, no wait they did didn't they

 

had replies to other post but they dissappeared apparently I can only quote one message at a time or is it something I've done

ady 1 got a large number of drawings I did in autocad, going back around almost 20 years a lot I cant even remember doing

alan wood 4  I have a dual sim phone  with services provided by O2 and vodaphone irland and an old nokia with a ee sim  the only one Ive ever had a signal was the Irish vodaphone  sim and that was on the workshop roof. my wife sometimes gets a signal if she is in  or next to her car but if she brings her phone into the workshop then signal dissappears. The farmer I rent the workshop tells me he has similair problems, near the workshop, but a  hundred yards or so there is coverage. I have never checked this but he also said that the sat nav on a couple of his smaller vehicles has poor coverage  but I thought at the time he was extracting the urine will have to check the next tim the wife takes the car over to drop of my lunch.

bazyle that is what I've been doing until recently with autocad,  then a couple of weeks ago had to bring the workshop pc back as it developed a problem with its ssd, and it installed several updates and autocad keeps telling me the licence is invalid  and the same happened on the house pc a day after.

will give solid edge another try if that doesn't work will try freecad.

 

Edited By Paul Mills 3 on 21/03/2023 20:39:13

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Posted by Jelly on 21/03/2023 14:46:39:

Solid Edge will run in WINE by all accounts, although I can't account for how well it runs.

If your PC is beefy enough a Windows VM instance would allow you to run most CAD programmes, but it will be extra resource intensive.

You could also install a windows instance on an AWS server, and RDP into that (although AWS is chargable over a certain usage level, albeit it's something like $0.20 per hour)

There's also Dual-Boot, which would be my choice in your shoes.

Thanks for that Jelly, unfortunately I have a steam driven computer, thought of updating it but it does all that I want,……….I think?

Not opened any windows for nearly 20 years and proud of it lol.

I have spent time with Freecad but the gogs got jammed and even Librecad on the Chrome book has snags, so I going to keep it simple as I can.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

For 2D DXF LibreCAD would fit.

[Cabinet EnforcerParticipant @cabinetenforcer]

Currently my main use of CAD is generating paper patterns, after Draftsight went paid (which was fine for this purpose) I downloaded solid edge, the 2021 version I think. Recently I got around to trying it out, and while I can see the potential of the actual drawing package, it seems to have a particularly useless print driver. Apparently it is almost impossible to get it to print at exact 1:1 scale, you can ask it to easily enough but the print outs are not at 100% and also this "feature" is not consistent across scale either, with smaller features printing a touch larger.

A Google search provided no useful info, beyond that it is indeed broken and things used to work properly before it went freeola.

Is the 2023 solid edge version better, or does anyone know of a workaround? Fusion 360 works ok for this but the limited documents and general online faffiness is a pain when you just want a quick paper pattern.

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by Cabinet Enforcer on 22/03/2023 18:36:02:

Currently my main use of CAD is generating paper patterns, after Draftsight went paid (which was fine for this purpose)

For a free 3D CAD you might want to look at NanoCAD

**LINK**

Like Draftsight, this is an AutoCAD LT lookalike and it works pretty well. I've been using it for a year or two since Draftsight withdrew their free version and I haven't had many problems. I was looking at upgrading to one of their paid versions, but they switched to the subscription mode about a year ago.

Jim.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Cabinet Enforcer on 22/03/2023 18:36:02:

Currently my main use of CAD is generating paper patterns, after Draftsight went paid (which was fine for this purpose) I downloaded solid edge, the 2021 version I think. … Apparently it is almost impossible to get it to print at exact 1:1 scale, you can ask it to easily enough but the print outs are not at 100% and also this "feature" is not consistent across scale either, with smaller features printing a touch larger.

…

Is the 2023 solid edge version better, or does anyone know of a workaround? Fusion 360 works ok for this but the limited documents and general online faffiness is a pain when you just want a quick paper pattern.

Many a slip twixt cup and lip when it comes to printing. There are a multitude of ways an image can be transferred from computer to paper and they all involve scale conversions which can go slightly wrong.

Could try saving the image as something else with SE, and then printing it with a different package. PDF, Postscript, BMP etc. This assumes the paper doesn't stick, slip or stretch in the printer!

For paper patterns I use QCAD (LibreCAD). It's print facility allows the scale to be adjusted so if a square comes out rectangular on paper, the error can be measured and the scale tweaked to correct.

Not sure how accurately SE 2023 prints 2D lines – I'll report back after I've tried it!

Dave

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

For a free 3D CAD you might want to look at NanoCAD

NanoCad is 2D, not 3D. It does work well & is what I replaced Draftsight with when they changed to a subscription model, both at work and at home. I tried both Qcad & LIbreCad before settling on NanoCad, as NanoCad handled legacy drawings from Draftsight more reliably. It is also a Russian product which, given the current situation, some may be uncomfortable with.

But it isn't 3D Cad. For that I am battling with FreeCad but am not finding the learning curve easy & I seem to be able to crash it rather too easily with my ham-fisted attempts at defining shapes. But still able to get simple shapes drawn, exported, sliced & 3D printed – eventually !

I wasn't happy with F360s "change on a whim" licencing arrangements – I didn't want to invest time & effort in something that could go the way of Draftsight with minimal notice at some point in the future & I don't wish to have dealings with the company behind SE, so not many other "Free" options for 3 D Cad. DesignSpoark Mechanical may be an option, though I don't want to be dabbling in 2 different programs at the same time – probably cause even more confusion.

Nigel B.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Ady1 on 21/03/2023 15:04:14:

The biggie for me now I have a CAD which works for me is the work storage

If you really like it – and you suddenly use it a lot – then you will start to amass a huge amount of work and effort in a relatively short period of time, so the ability to keep it backed up safe and snug tucked up under your bed suddenly becomes a really big deal

It doesn't take long to accumulate either, pulling in previously made drawings for bits and pieces drawn a month ago saves a lot of repetition time, even if they need resizing

I use Backblaze for a cloud backup.

Neil

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by mgnbuk on 22/03/2023 20:23:26:

For a free 3D CAD you might want to look at NanoCAD

NanoCad is 2D, not 3D.

Finger trouble on my part which I had noticed after I had posted but I couldn't get back in to edit. But I thought the mention of Draftsight and AutoCAD LT in context might imply that NanoCAD Free was 2D.

Jim.

[Paul Mills 4Participant @paulmills4]

Thanks, everyone for your suggestions have downloaded solid edge ce, done so!me of the tutorials and actually produced a drawing for a part I need to make for an 1930 New Hudson ….but cant find a widget to print it off . Unfortunately the workshop computer screen tends to get obscured by important stuff (kettle) when I am working.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/03/2023 19:55:11:

Posted by Cabinet Enforcer on 22/03/2023 18:36:02:

Currently my main use of CAD is generating paper patterns, after Draftsight went paid (which was fine for this purpose) I downloaded solid edge, the 2021 version I think. … Apparently it is almost impossible to get it to print at exact 1:1 scale, you can ask it to easily enough but the print outs are not at 100% and also this "feature" is not consistent across scale either, with smaller features printing a touch larger.

…

Is the 2023 solid edge version better, or does anyone know of a workaround? Fusion 360 works ok for this but the limited documents and general online faffiness is a pain when you just want a quick paper pattern.

…

Not sure how accurately SE 2023 prints 2D lines – I'll report back after I've tried it!

Dave

Well, I couldn't get SE to print a 100x100mm square.

I didn't have time to try all the print control options, but it appears SE works hard to scale drawings to fit within the paper size rather than print 1:1 at design scale.

Perhaps another SE user will know better: I rarely use SE's 2D tool.

To be fair to SE, scaling from drawings has always been frowned on and they may not have realised a user would want to use their 3D-CAD to make accurate 2D paper patterns! (Though I agree it's a reasonable thing to do.)

I print paper patterns with QCAD, and, as it's a 2D thing, I suspect most other 2D technical drawing packages would be OK too.

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Mills 4 on 23/03/2023 09:33:34:

Thanks, everyone for your suggestions have downloaded solid edge ce, done so!me of the tutorials and actually produced a drawing for a part I need to make for an 1930 New Hudson ….but cant find a widget to print it off . Unfortunately the workshop computer screen tends to get obscured by important stuff (kettle) when I am working.

Ha, I struggled with that too. Just type ctrl-p

Dave

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Glad to see Paul MIlls 4 has got what he wants. Does that mean that Paul Mills 3 (the OP) will do the same, I wonder? Pete White falls into another bracket with his Linux set-up, unless he goes dual-boot with Windows when he will get the best and worst of the deals.

I treat my preferred 3D CAD package (Alibre Atom) as just another tool in the workshop armoury. As such, sometimes you just have to look big and pay up, as you would do with any other tool, be it a humble lathe tool or the lathe itself. If the drawing package you select suits you and does what you want it to, go ahead and buy it, I say. I found Alibre reasonably easy to pick up and it will export 3D drawings as dimensioned 2D files in several formats as well as STEP, and STL for importation into 3D printer slicer software such as Cura, for example, which I thought was the OP's requirement.

My 2d,

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 23/03/2023 10:25:18

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

'From time to time I get the chance to earn a few brownie points by printing paper patterns or templates or some such for my wife. I was recently asked to produce a couple of circles of little dots with precise circle dimensions and doing this in SE was straightforward. I then print using the standard print dialogue but use the Microsoft "print to PDF" printer. I then have a file I can pass to my wife, although she generally asks me to print it anyway! Good for another brownie point. I went through this process for my concentric circles and, printing from Adobe Reader at 100% scale to an HP desktop laser printer, it came out to exact dimensions as measured with the beaten-up old plastic ruler on my desk. If not, it would have been a trivial job to calculate and set the print scale factor when printing from Reader.

As mentioned, the printer scaling can be applied at so many unseen points in the print work flow that it would be difficult to point the finger at any one of them; better to have a repeatable process that can be simply tweaked to calibrate. Given the alignment errors I always get when printing the patterns scaled up and tiled across multiple pages, there is sufficient mechanical distortion going on between paper and printer that better than a millimetre or so accuracy across the page is probably about as good as I would expect with my setup.

Edited By Nealeb on 23/03/2023 10:39:37

[Paul Mills 4Participant @paulmills4]

Posted by John Hinkley on 23/03/2023 10:23:59:

Glad to see Paul MIlls 4 has got what he wants. Does that mean that Paul Mills 3 (the OP) will do the same, I wonder? Pete White falls into another bracket with his Linux set-up, unless he goes dual-boot with Windows when he will get the best and worst of the deals.

I treat my preferred 3D CAD package (Alibre Atom) as just another tool in the workshop armoury. As such, sometimes you just have to look big and pay up, as you would do with any other tool, be it a humble lathe tool or the lathe itself. If the drawing package you select suits you and does what you want it to, go ahead and buy it, I say. I found Alibre reasonably easy to pick up and it will export 3D drawings as dimensioned 2D files in several formats as well as STEP, and STL for importation into 3D printer slicer software such as Cura, for example, which I thought was the OP's requirement.

My 2d,

John

Edited By John Hinkley on 23/03/2023 10:25:18

Hi

Both thee the above mentioned paulmills3 and paulmills4 are me, logged in on tablet last time I replied, sorry for any confusion butdid not realize I had 2 accounts will try to sort it later although it may have something to do with the fact at my last visit to the phsychiatrist she said I wasn't a paranoid schizophrenic and that thety were actually trying to get both of me

Thanks Dave silly old duffer Will try the ctrl-p thing later spent ages clicking every button loking for it even endured a couple of you tube torture sessions which just give me a headache

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well I'm now 10 weeks in and I'm going to have a go at the Bismarck

Just the outer view for starters, see how it goes

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Day one and the hull was a bit of a swine, you need at least 100 slices to get it right, the bow flaring and the bulbous bow are a real pain, I used about 12 slices

Will have a go at the superstructure over the weekend, scale is 1:100 1cm/1M

She's actually rather a good looking bit of kit

Edited By Ady1 on 24/03/2023 03:02:16

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

One 1:100 Treaty busting capital ship in less than two days, that's how easy Alibre is

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I'm more than impressed.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

When I started it and just did a plain flat deck it was simple enough but when I looked at the hull I thought uh-oh we're about to come to a grinding halt here…. and it took a couple of hours to suss it out

But it turns out they have a boss command in the menu called Loft which allows you to feed any shape you want through 2D drawings which means you can do all sorts of weird curved shapes if you feed it through enough 2D drawings

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

That must be tempting the non believers

Pete

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