Looking for electric motor dimensions for frame size B234

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Hello – I am looking for the electric motor dimensions / specifications for frame size of B234. This is not listed in any of the books that I have. I suspect it's from the early 60s or thereabouts.

If anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Lewis

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Lewis,
I found this reference to B234 frame size but as it is on a US site it may not be the same standard. I found it by putting "motor b234 frame size" into Google.

Les.

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Hi Les –

I had actually found that reference prior to posting my question on the forum here.

It looks to me that B234 in that case is a reference to a part number, with the actual frame size spec'd as 56.

Thanks anyway,

Lewis

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

In modern motors the frame size numbers refer to the dimension from the shaft center line to the underside of the mounting foot ie, frame size 112 means 112mm from centerline to underside of mounting foot.

In flange mounting it means from centerline of shaft to the PCD of the mounting holes. and are usually B5 or B14 in addition the the " D frame size "

these are IEC Metric dims, the Mercans use NEMA which is an imperial dim. Go to Siemens drive website or

Baldor for the Nema equivalent.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

The American motors website has a useful chart , I can find no reference to 234 plenty of 324 even pre NEMA.

Are you sure it a 3 and not a 5 as there are 254 frame sizes. Any how if that 234 you mention does refer to the frame size, it will be a fair sized motor. Any idea of what horsepower it is ?

Regards,

Raymond.

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Hi Lewis

Can you post a photo of the motor, the name plate, and also show the B234 reference?

Steve

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Hi – Thanks for the feedback on this.

I'll be back with some pictures and nameplate info as soon as I get back to the house. I've got the motor completely disassembled, and hence, cannot easily take measurements – but I do have some pre-tear down pictures as well as one of the nameplate. It's not a big motor – maybe 1HP – 3phase. And if my memory serves me correctly (big if) it was made by a company "Newman" in Bristol,UK.

Stay tuned – I will be back hopefully later today.

Thanks again,

Lewis

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

I have been trying to link pictures in from my photobucket account but it does not seem to work.

Edited By Lewis Cobb on 03/01/2015 14:58:55

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Lewis,

This thread was created over the last couple of days by Neil for me to do the same as you, I eventually managed it.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=103028

Martin P

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Well, my attempts to link in a couple of pictures are not working. I will keep trying but in the meantime I will type out what's on the nameplate here –

Going from the top of the motor plate downward:

INDUCTION MOTOR

MADE IN ENGLAND

B.S.170 : 1962

Newman Industries Ltd.

Yate, Bristol, England

Frame: B234

No.: R952 6001

H.P.: 1

Rev/Min: 1710

Volts: 208 / 220

Amps: 3.45

Phase: 3

C/S: 60

Ins. Class: A

Conn. Diag.: 134 49Y

Rating: Cont.

 

One more thing that's noteworthy here – you will notice that the cycles per second is 60 and not 50. This motor comes off a machine that was built in the UK for the North American market. It did not end up back in the UK – I am in Canada

 

Hopefully this information may lead us down a few paths with someone on here.

 

Thanks very much !

 

Lewis

 

 

 

Edited By Lewis Cobb on 03/01/2015 15:15:18

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hello Lewis,

The only ref to frame B234 I can find all appear to signify a frame size of 56, and most of them appear to be for pump motors for pools ect. So I dont think frame B234 refers to the size, maybe the style but It would appear not to relate to the size.

Incidentally all the info seems to be for mercan motors [which ties in with your info, re frequency ]

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Posted by Raymond Anderson on 03/01/2015 15:29:08:

Hello Lewis,

The only ref to frame B234 I can find all appear to signify a frame size of 56, and most of them appear to be for pump motors for pools ect. So I dont think frame B234 refers to the size, maybe the style but It would appear not to relate to the size.

Incidentally all the info seems to be for mercan motors [which ties in with your info, re frequency ]

Please excuse my ignorance but what are mercan motors ?

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Hint: try saying "Mercan" with a potato in your mouth. You can substitute the word "American" if all else fails….

Merry

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

What’s your beef? mercan is just another slang for AMERICAN, same as JOCKS for Scots ( of which I happen to be)
so pull your heed in will you.

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Ah yes, lol – "mer-i-can" would have tipped me off better. And over here in Canada – Jocks are athletic inclined students in school….at least they were 30-40 years ago….nothing to do with the Scots….. but we digress…..

This motor had the Newman plate attached to it, and inside, the bearings were UK made – so it was not made in the US for sure.

I did a little google for Newman Industries and discovered a rich history of shares being sold, corrupt directors being sacked etc. down through the decades – haha. All very interesting even though a tangent to the main goal…..

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Try putting your photos direct from your computer into an album on this site, you'll need to reduce to 640 x 420, or there abouts. Apparently Photo Bucket has a few complications, read Neil's thread on photo installation.

Ian S C

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

ok – back again. Let's give this a try with the albums. I've set one up with the name Lewis' Photos (how's that for originality) and will try and link them in here.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Lewis,

That B234 frame looks remarkably like the Hoover motors of similar vintage.

… Which may, or may not, help.

MichaelG.

[pmm1Participant @pmm1]

From BSI Shop

A fraction of the Horsepower! A look at fractional horsepower motors and some old standards

Roaring Twenties – along with the new household goods, the first FHP standard appears

In 1926, BSI released the specification for Electrical Performance of Fractional Horse-Power Electric Motors – BS 170. It applied to FHP motors (including Fan Motors) of any continuous rating “less than one horse-power per 1000 revs per minute” and covered variable speed and inverse speed motors.

In 1939 the scope was expanded to cover “universal” type FHP motors, and AC DC generators.

In 1962, the standard was again revised, with major changes bringing it into line with current practice, with particular provision made for new classes of insulating materials, and guidance was given on performance characteristics.

Standards covering dimensions in the 1950s

BS 2048 appeared in 1953, establishment dimensions for two frame sizes of FHP motors, necessary so that motors of all different makes would mechanically interchangeable when mounted on the driven machines. The dimensions specified were identical to the American NEMA FHP Motor Standard MG2:1951, so that those complying with the standard would be interchangeable between the two countries.

BS 2048 was revised in 1961 to cover more frame sizes, still identical to the US standard.

Paul

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Hi Gents –

Looks like this BSI info may lead me to some results – thanks very much for that. I wonder if old standards like this are easy to obtain? I'll send the BSI a note and inquire.

Cheers,

Lewis

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

If BSI can supply a copy of the standard you might need to be sitting down when they give you the price!

May be I'm missing something here, but you have the motor available – so what are you hoping to get from the spec. for the frame size that measuring won't tell you apart from possibly tolerances on bolt spacing etc.?

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Well if it costs a pile there's no point – I'll just wait it out. The motor is fully torn down (will need some repairs) and I was hoping to get some measurements via a document rather than temporarily putting it back together. However, perhaps a few hours spent reassembling it is not that bad …. As a hobbiest I am probably like most in that I am not a fan of spending money

Cheers,

Lewis

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Just looked on the BSI shop website, BS 2048 is listed as £90 (£45 if you are a "member" ), and BS 170 is over £170 (discount for members again)!!! – very expensive little booklets.

In our works library we used to have literally thousands of the BS publications on the shelves as the librarian used to buy any of possible relevance or use as they were published. In those days (1970's -1990's they were about £5 a throw) – bet he wouldn't be doing that today!

[Lewis CobbParticipant @lewiscobb93613]

Mmmmmmm……..well, looks like it's out to the shop in the cold to reassemble this motor then !

We've run into the same robbery techniques with standards over here in Canada as well. It's become a real racket for making money as far as I am concerned. Amusingly, there were some standards that we needed a few years back at my work and we found a place in eastern europe that was selling them (.pdf form) at pennies on the dollar with them rebranded as their country's standard, but they were American standards right down to the typo errors ! Saved a good deal of money on those I can tell you….haha

Cheers,

Lewis

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