Long time Lurker coming out of the Shadow :)

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Good Evening My name is Rob I live in leicestershire

I have been trying not to start more projects in my live but I just can't help it I am a serial starter, A finisher well as I said I'm a good starter so thats got to count for something .

I have always into making things with wood or metal or with pretty much any thing and love how things work.

I have been looking for a metal lathe for a very long time and I finally found one that was near to collect and looked good.

It was from a gunsmith that has sadly passed away the amount of grease on it has preserved it rather well.

It is a Myford ML74 Long bed lathe from what I can tell which seems to be from the 1940's and must have so much history to tell.

But with history comes war wounds and so with many Ebay bargains It needs a little love and attention.

The first thing I checked was the spindle runout and it definatley has some. So I thought it would be as easy as Emailing Myford and giving then a Visa number, Although it seems like the ML74 isn't quite the same for Spares as the ML7 as I hoped.

So what started as thinking I would like to make a few small steam engines and see how metal lathes work. I will be on the hunt for ML74 spindles & Bearings.

If anyone knows of a similar M type lathe with availble spindles any help would be very much appreciated, I told the daughter of the last owner it was going to a good home and now I'm not so sure.

I am sorry I am not an engineer so i will not be much of a giver but I will always try and contribure on the forum if I can be of any help in the future.

Thankyou all very much for be inspirations for home workshop wanabe's

Rob

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Hi Rob welcome to the forum. I am struggling to find a ML74 lathe and wondered if you have any further info on it. I have an M Type lathe but if you can put some pictures on we may be more able to help. You have to create an album in your profile to post pictures go to top of page and click forums tab. Then look for web site FAQ click that and look for how to post pictures/ photographs.

David

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Is it possible that you have a rare MF74 there, Rob ?

**LINK**

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford%20mf74/page2.html

MichaelG.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Hello Rob and welcome. Please have a look at the link in Michael's post above and see if that is the same as yours.

You really need to check if the runout is in the spindle or the chuck or merely down to the bearings needing adjusting

You will find many people on here happy to help with advice on engines and other projects.

Brian

[Guy LambParticipant @guylamb68056]

Better a serial starter than a 'Gunner' Robert (Gunner start this and Gunner start that). Lots of years experience on this forum let alone common sense to be gleaned.

Guy

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Welcome to the forum

H

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Everyone

Thank you very much for the Warm welcome Thank you for the link yes that's the one. I have created an Album and uploaded several photo's although I am sorry to show the mess around it.

we are having windows fitted this week and so everything is now piled up as of last night in there. on the right side is a Rover 3.5 V8 waiting for me and the metal around it is a CNC machine in the early stages of the build.

Thank you Brian it seems to have the problem I have read about on these that there wasn't a shimmed and at some stage, it has been welded although it seems to be a successful repair although I did see (I believe it was on here) someone had milled away the damage and made a top plate I'm not sure if I have enough talent for that so I thought I would try and use what I have initially,

I have taken the Spindle out and it has lots of wear on it there aren't any oilers on it so it has probably just had oil when in use. I did try to tighten the top up a little but it still has the movement of around 1/2mm I'm not sure if it is usable to make small parts or not.

I haven't as yet ever used a metal lathe but I thought if I worked on larger lengths it might push away from the cutter giving me a taper but it was just a guess really.

I have a small mini Mill which I thought I might be able to repair the Damaged cross slide but I'm not sure if that will work.

It does seem like it might be one of the Rarer type ML74 which I always thought rare might be a good thing but then rare means less available parts to I guess. sadly,

I'm not even sure if Engineering companies would look at making a bespoke spindle for it. I have never had this type of thing made before.

It seems the definition of irony that I seem to need a lathe to get my lathe working. the first-ever lathe must have been a chicken and egg thing going on

Guy, I love the comment and I'm definitely Gunner finish something I start one day .

I hope the album works

**LINK**

Thank you

Rob

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Robert Grain on 02/11/2020 10:59:54:

.

[…] although I did see (I believe it was on here) someone had milled away the damage […]

I have taken the Spindle out and it has lots of wear on it […]

I'm not even sure if Engineering companies would look at making a bespoke spindle for it. I have never had this type of thing made before.

.

Useful pictures on : **LINK**

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford%20mf74/page3.html

Regarding the spindle … I don’t know what the cost might be, but it looks like something that could be built-up and reground; like they do with motorcycle forks.

MichaelG.

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Michael

Thank you very much for the link, That't the one I thought about trying. Sorry for the mis post of saying it was on here . it was the Lathes.co.uk A very informative resource.

I did wonder if it could be either taken away and adding smaller ball bearing type bearings or adding but I wasn't sure if it was a system that is used. its certainly worth checking.

Thanks

Rob

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

Rob if you haven't used a lathe before you are welcome to visit me and we can go through some basics to start you on the long road to lathe madness. LOL.

I am in Narborough.

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello MadMike

Thank you very much for the kind offer that would be great to visit you if you have some time It looks like it will be at least 4 weeks before we would be allowed.

Thanks

Rob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Robert Grain on 02/11/2020 10:59:54:

I have taken the Spindle out and it has lots of wear on it there aren't any oilers on it so it has probably just had oil when in use. I did try to tighten the top up a little but it still has the movement of around 1/2mm I'm not sure if it is usable to make small parts or not.

I haven't as yet ever used a metal lathe but I thought if I worked on larger lengths it might push away from the cutter giving me a taper but it was just a guess really.

If you have 1/2mm wear in the spindle bearings, the lathe has done A LOT of work. You need to assess wear on the bed, carriage, cross slide and top slide and tailstock before spending any money on a spindle and bearings. It may well be the whole lathe is similarly clapped and not really worth the expense and time of refurbishing.

To be useful, those headstock spindle bearings need to have a clearance of about 0.02mm or less. Otherwise lathe will chatter and cut all over the place and not be terribly useful for precision work such as making model engines etc.

Cheapest fix might be to get the shaft metal-sprayed and reground. Lots of machine shops do this to salvage pump shafts etc. But the critical eccentricity of the chuck mounting thread and collar to the bearing areas is down to how careful the machine shop is. Pump shafts etc are not as critical in this area as lathe spindles! (Motorcycle forks are hard chromed and reground which is different again and used mostly on sliding elements like forks and hydrualic cylinder piston rods etc.)

Then you will still have to get two new bronze bushes made up by a machine shop to suit as they will surely be worn too.

Converting to taper roller bearings might be possible but would involve precision machining of the headstock to fit the outer races and is a major project on its own. Suitable sleeves and adjustment facility might have to be made up to adapt the spindle to modern roller bearing inner race sizes too.

The MF series (as distinct from the more common ML series and the earlier M-Type) were a quality machine in their day so might be worth fixing if the cost is not too outrageous. But adding a bed and saddle regrind into the mix might make it quite costly, if they are as worn as the spindle etc.

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Hopper thank you very much for the information, I will speak to a couple of engineering firms I will have to have a look around to see who does it around here.

I was wondering what the amount of movement should be and so very much different, I can feel the difference with my fingers but also the vernier caliper just sliding along picks the difference without even needing a micrometer.

The bearings are definitely worn inside and also there is a step on the outer face too. I have started to look for a ball bearing system but the sizes don't seem to be a standard but I have been working in metric so it would be a possible Inch size I might need to look for, (every day is a School Day time to learn imperial properly then ) would there way at home that I could find if the bed is worn at all? I have a dial indicator If I put it on the slide and then used the bed as a reference would that be good enough to find if it is worn. there is certainly wear on the Cross slide it is quite dug in but I wasn't sure if that would still be okay because I could maybe shim the Cutting tool to get to the centre and still get the accuracy.

It would be a shame if it can't be used but also these things have a finite life but I feel bad telling the lady that it was going to a good home.

Thank you

Rob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Dont waste your time with ball bearings. They are not suitable for a lathe that size. Taper rollers are what is needed. And you wont find either ball or roller bearings that will fit into the same space as those bronze bushes. Machining the headstock will be necessary to fit the outer races.

See MEW Issue 285 for an article on measuring Myford bed wear. You will ideally need a micrometer or two but a digi caliper will give a rough idea.

Also see this recent thread on doing a ML7 bed **LINK**

A quick check is to set the carriage gib strip adjustment so it is a neat sliding fit at the worn part of the bed about six inches from the left hand end and see if it gets tight when moving the carriage to the unworn right hand end of the bed. If so, set it to be a neat fit on the unworn part of the bed and then use a feeler gauge so measure the gap between the vertical surface of the front bed way and the carriage at the most worn spot. That is your wear amount there. Or even use a sturdy steel rule and feeler guages to measure the dip in the worn area.

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Hopper

Thank you very much I will try that and see what I get on there, Thank you very much for the link I will have a look at that too. It sounds like a good challenge to get started on.

Thanks

Rob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes it will be a challenge all right! Vintage machine tool restoration can become an all consuming hobby in itself if you are not careful. (Ask me how I know this!)

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome!

You will find lots of advice and help on here.

Definitely a MF74 (cast into your gear cover, and visible in the pictures on the Lathes UK website )

Unlikely to be able to source a new Spindle, for a lathe of that age, so your options seem to be:

1 ) Hard chrome and regrind back to size. (Being of 1940s vintage, sizes and threads are almost certain to,be Imperial.

2 ) Weld and grind back to original size.

3 ) Grind the shaft to clean up and have new bushes made to the new size.

4 ) Have new spindle made

1 ) would be my preference, since it keeps everything standard sizes, and does not involve heat and possible distortion, or changes to the characteristics of the metal. 3 ) would make it like an old London bus, all manner of non standard sizes.

Bed wear sounds like LOTS of scraping to bring the unworn areas down to that of the worn. This may then bring the problem that the Tailstock centre is minutely lower than the Headstock centre. But possibly shims in the right place may solve that.

As Hopper says, you could be about to embark on a new and unexpected lifestyle!

If you can get the machine running again to an acceptable standard, you will have a huge sense of achievement, gained a lot of good experience, and a quite capable machine. It will not happen in a short time, you will need cash, time and lots of patience (Not a feature that I possess )

One suggestion, for later on. Once the lathe is operable again, it might be worth making up and adaptor, with a Thread and register to match the Mandrel, and with an external register and thread (1.125" x 12 tpi and 1.250" register to take the "standard" Myford chucks and Faceplates.

Don't forget to make it with two flats for a spanner, to aid removal!

Chucks, 3 and 4 jaw, as well as Backplates, are available in Myford fitting. You are likely to need a 4 jaw independant chuck eventually.

This might be easier than having to make up your own backplate to match the thread and register on the mandrel.

Pure guesswork, but possibly 7/8" x 12 tpi?

Please keep us posted as to your progress.

Howard

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Hopper

Thanks for the message I think I know what you have in your workshop and more than one . It does seem a fulfilling part of the hobby taking something that looks like it should be more of a scrap yard resident and turning it into a precise instrument that gleams in the workshop.

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

Hello Howard

Thank you very much for the message and fantastic information. With luck, I am installing a computer system at an Engineering firm, and Might just happen to have the spindle and bearings with me to see if they will help. I think I need to learn the art of scraping by the Sounds of it although the Crossslide seems very deep and will probably need to be built up, I have a tig and I have been learning that on my own in the garage making the CNC and 2 pieces of metal stick together and not too messily so I will have to see if I can see if tig will weld to Cast and what rods to use.

I'm a little worried about running out of talent when I'm working with things like this without any experience but there is only one way to learn.

I have Patience but the time & cash thing is more of a stumbling block but at the moment it will be good to return it to what it would have been,

I don't think I'm too much of a purist that I will use the green though I like the grey (I remember spitting image with John major just being grey and dull, now its the colour to have) I love being down with the kids.

I must admit I like the idea of being able to make threads so the adapter will certainly be on my list to make when it's up and running.

Everything in my life seems to take longer than originally I think it will but I always keep chipping away at them so if it isn't going to take too much money I will keep going, Although I also have my eye out for a local ML7 if one comes up.

I will certainly keep you posted on progress.

Thank you

Rob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Robert Grain on 05/11/2020 20:44:10:, Although I also have my eye out for a local ML7 if one comes up.

Dont limit your options. If you are in the UK and want old Brit machines you might easily find a Boxford or Raglan lathe cheaper than a Myford — and both are better machines than the Myford but just don't have the cult following that pumps prices up. (Ducks for cover!) But it all comes down to what kind of condition the individual machine is in — as you have found!

Welding up your cross slide risks seriously distorting the whole thing with heat. And scraping a lathe bed is a huge undertaking requiring some advanced skills and special equipment so you might look deeply into that before taking the plunge.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

When I managed to crack the Cross Slide on my Myford, I was lucky. A colleague had been Foreman in the Toolroom. He very kindly had one made "to pattern" ( minus crack ).

So it may be possible to have a new Cross Slide made, rather than trying to tart up a badly worn one.

With regard to screwcutting, I do not go looking to do it, but when forced to do it, I proceed gently and slowly..

The adaptor that I made was for a ML4. Fortunately, a friend loaned me a 7/8 BSW tap for the internal thread.

The external one I had to cut, but could use a "standard" Myford fitting chuck as a gauge, to check progress as work progressed.

Howard

[Robert GrainParticipant @robertgrain36229]

It's certainly handy to know people that have those skills to reproduce items like that. I have sent a couple of Emails off to engineering companies locally to see if they would look at making a unit and a Coventry based company they say they deal with piston spraying so I thought they might be used to the precision required that does metal spraying.

I have already learned that from here so thank you very much I didn't know that was possible before now.

I am going to give the measuring the runout a go first and then once I know how worn it is I will then make the decision to letting someone else take up the reins and me getting a different lathe or continue to resurrect this one, although I do want to keep this one if possible.

There's no rush because it's only for learning the ropes of metal turning.

I imagine the Tap would be ideal for a loan item not any everyday thread of that size.

I must admit I have had a sneaky peak at Boxford lathes too. it seems everyone needs 2 lathes to mend the other one .

I doubt I am the only one that has talked themself into that theory on here Hopper

Thanks

Rob

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The centre lathe is the only machine tool capable of reproducing itself.

When I managed to mangle the gear that engages with the rack to traverse the Saddle. Using the Cross Slide and Top Slide with manual feed, I was able make up a new blank to cut a replacement gear. Fortunately, the length required was less than the travel of the Top Slide.

But, having become lazy, I did miss the power feeds!

But that gave an incentive to make the replacement gear and reassemble everything.

Howard

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