London Model Engineering exhibition at Alexandra Palace

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

To be fair, the distance from Southend or Brighton to the Midland exhibition is about the same as the distance from me in Rugby (12 miles away from the Midland one) to Harrogate or The Bristol one and I visited those regularly.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the first ME exhibition that I went too was in 1993, which was held in London's Olympia, and was held there up to 1998. It was then held back in Ally Pally in 1999, then from 2000 to 2005 it was at Sandown Park. The 2006 one was postponed until September 2007, and was held at Ascot, and in 2008 was again in Ascot, and returned to Sandown Park in 2009 for a few more years.

Regards Nick.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Like Paul, I attend the exhibitions for several reasons, not just denting my bank-balance. Though I've to order prior to collection at "The Fosse" – yes, I've both bought a "civvy" ticket for one day, and awaiting me on another day will be a club stand-crew pass.

'

I far prefer to buy anything on sight. I have no objection to purchasing by mail / Internet order, and do so from time to time; for real purposes like model-engineering, not "ordinary" stuff like clothes. So I value the traders, not least for the help I need sometimes to select what I want.

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I come away from the gleaming, brand-new top-award exhibits sometimes not sure if I am inspired or would have been better off with origami, but enjoy admiring the simply-shown on the club stands as much as the competition examples. I find myself looking at the patina on an older steam locomotive or traction-engine and like to judge it one well-built, well-loved and well-used.

I was not amused one day when admiring a 4" – scale traction-engine to overhear the visitor next to me complain to his companion about some small detail apparently not right. The honourably-patinated engine with a sooty chimney was clearly well looked after, and well-rallied. Where was the rivet-counter's engine, I thought. With no drawings available, my own long-suffering project will never be rivet-counting right – but I want it as near to original as sensible… and to work!

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There is though another, very important aspect I'm not sure has been mentioned much here – the social one. From chance meetings with friends perhaps in other clubs, to chance conversations with anyone else over one or another technical matter; and often the chance to seek advice. I recollect vaguely at one show, two or three of us visitors spontaneously becoming the informal Advisory Committee for some engineering problem of another visitor or a club-stand member!

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On Paul Kemp's first paragraph, I vowed not to go to Doncaster again after the terrible time I had trying to find the race-course in a city-centre full of dense, fast-moving, traffic. (I could not drive in London, You-Les or not.) Nor I was not impressed by the Doncaster horsey-set price of a supermarket pasty and a paper cup of DIY tea. On the other hand, I don't recall the ticket price being unduly high, and once in I did enjoy the exhibition and bought a few things. So for me, moving back to Harrogate was very welcome – but I do have other interests and friends in't Dales so its 300 miles from home is not too much a burden personally, despite the cost of petrol.

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A NAME Meeting I attended for my club a few years ago, I forget if pre- or post- Plague, mentioned a possible exhibition in the South-West, e.g. Exeter. This appears to have faded, but I don't know if anyone is considering reviving the idea. Aware of the repercussions of making such pronouncements I will have to admit, don't look at me – I'd struggle with a round of shandies in a brewery – but I'd likely attend if possible!

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 27/09/2023 23:42:18:

A NAME Meeting I attended for my club a few years ago, I forget if pre- or post- Plague, mentioned a possible exhibition in the South-West, e.g. Exeter. This appears to have faded, but I don't know if anyone is considering reviving the idea. Aware of the repercussions of making such pronouncements I will have to admit, don't look at me – I'd struggle with a round of shandies in a brewery – but I'd likely attend if possible!

There will be a Garden Railway exhibition in Exeter this October and at least two local model engineering societies will be there. The library in Newton Abbot is also holding a railway-themed exhibition in December, associated with its specialist railway collection, and my own club in Newton Abbot will be exhibiting there. But we are a fair way down in the south west and the local model engineering population density is not that high! I used to go to the Bristol show, which was one of my personal favourites, but difficulties in organising, finding suitable premises, and attracting trade exhibitors all proved too much for a single club, even one the size of Bristol.

I spent most of my exhibition time on the SMEE stand but for me, when wandering around, the best bit was the chance to see the occasional part-complete model and, with a bit of luck, talk to its builder. The glossy exhibition-quality models are all very glamorous but even if I found something similar to my own loco under construction, if you couldn't get a good look at the hidden interesting details, it wasn't of that much interest. Personal opinion here! But at the forthcoming local exhibitions, my club will have at least one part-complete model on the stand to show what's under the covers.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Nealeb on 28/09/2023 07:27:42:The library in Newton Abbot is also holding a railway-themed exhibition in December, associated with its specialist railway collection, and my own club in Newton Abbot will be exhibiting there.

Is the library still the Passmore Edwards one? Went to Newton Abbot Grammar (Knowles Hill now) from 1969 to 1976 and was a/the junior member of the defunct Torbay MES from it's founding until I left in '76.

[JAParticipant @ja]

The first model engineering show I went to was in Exmouth. It , a local show, must have made an impression since I have vague memories of it. I was about eight at the time.

I went to a couple at Seymour Hall. I seem to remember these as being slightly chaotic and in two halls 100 yards apart. A couple of stand holders were very rude to me since I had long hair (if only I had now). After thirty years or so I started to revisit shows. One of the first was at the Agricultural Hall in Islington, I think. Then there was Donnington Part race course, a sports centre in the Lee Valley and so on.

I am no longer planning to visit any exhibitions. At present I am not fit enough and I do not know what I would gain from a visit. I make models to keep myself busy.

JA

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Oh, I am sorry you do not feel fit to attend any exhibitions.

Would a smaller club one reasonably near you, be better than one of the major shows, which can be physically tiring or awkward if you have something like the arthritic knees I had (until they were replaced).

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My first was local – Weymouth & DMES', in the Sidney Hall, a Victorian benefactor's gift to the town but demolished I think back in the 1970s to suit a supermarket! I was probably about 12 at the time, and visited it with my Dad who may have known a few members as work colleagues.

The Society, which had both a live-steam and 00-gauge layout branches, ran a series of exhibitions in the town in the 1960s to 70s, and few since, although the 00 section has long gone. These later shows included as a guest-exhibitor in the local model-railway club's own exhibition. We do though now have a number of members interested in the "garden" scales and they have built a raised, non-scenic layout within our ground-level track loop; not as a separate branch but all one club.

I joined it in my teens a few years after that Sidney Hall show; and am still fairly active in it, as its second-longest surviving and serving member!

……

Some while ago Taunton Model Engineers ran a successful and very enjoyable series of exhibitions in a school not far from the town – and easily-accessible! With room outdoors for the miniature traction-engines to operate too, these were augmented by displays from perhaps half a dozen other Somerset clubs, and several trade stands; indeed I ordered the Western Steam-built boiler for my steam-wagon there one year, and collected it next year!. Even Reeves put in an appearance one year.

A shame they stopped, but where there is a cluster of like-minded model-engineering and related societies within a relatively modest radius, might there exist the possibility of a similar exhibition held jointly?

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Posted by Mark Rand on 28/09/2023 09:41:29:

Is the library still the Passmore Edwards one? Went to Newton Abbot Grammar (Knowles Hill now) from 1969 to 1976 and was a/the junior member of the defunct Torbay MES from it's founding until I left in '76.

Yes, it's still there. I'm relatively new to the area and currently chairman of the Newton Abbot club. The exhibition is mainly OO gauge but we do our best to promote bigger gauges! Given that our club track is only a few miles from the library…

However, speaking as a club chairman, one of the issues is finding enough willing volunteers to actually do the considerable amount of work to make even a small exhibition work and in the end it tends to come down to the same small group who turn up to evening meetings, turn up on track maintenance morning, etc. And there is a limit to what that group can achieve bearing in mind that they are possibly the most active model engineer/loco building members of the club as well. I can understand why local exhibitions are thin on the ground, although best of luck to those who do run them.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I found getting to the Doncaster one easier than Harrogate. Its also closer for me. Sad that it moved.

[brickyParticipant @bricky]

I always enjoyed Ally Pally and travelled from Grantham by train .I always took my bag for things that I needed or thought I did. I do miss it .The Spalding model engineering show was much needed in the East Midlands and was growing year on year but stopped ,which also upset me.I might go to the Midland Exhibition.

Frank

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

File Handle –

That may depend on your route and local knowledge. From the South, the only sign to the racecourse is that off the motorway, and the route is through the city. On the other hand, I was bound for Skipton and beyond afterwards, and Northwards along the same road from the racecourse car-park soon emerged from Doncaster without further problems.

I have approached what was the Great Yorkshire Showground ( or whatever is its forgettable name the corporate-branding types have since demoted it to) several times from both the East and West, and left on each occasion Westwards. Yes, driving through the town is a bit stop-go, but not far, on more or less one road – though the venue's entrance is not properly signed at all.

I have travelled to Alexandra Palace on coach trips and more recently as a passenger in a friend's car. I could not drive the long, very complicated, very difficult, very busy route from the M25 junction to Muswell Hill; even worse afterwards, in the dark, at the start of over 100 miles home.

Sometimes we drove just a short distance after the show, to a restaurant; that hour or so meal break giving the London commuter traffic time to ease slightly. I did say "slightly".

One one trip somebody in our party said, "We must be nearly there: lots of men with white hair all going that way!" (I should add that applied to most of our group, too!)

…..

Bricky –

Don't "… might go…" . Do go!

''''

If I am returning from the Midlands or North-East now I set my sat-nag to the Warwickshire Show Ground. I know my way home from there, down the Fosse Way, a lot shorter than using the motorways, though Cirencester is very difficult to navigate !

[Benedict WhiteParticipant @benedictwhite51126]

Some really interesting responses. I will try to get to the Midlands show. That said it would be really good if someone organised one in the South East. We used to have Brighton, Sandown Park and Alexandra Palace and now it seems the nearest is the Midlands one.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Benedict, You have presumably not attended any of the club shows – even in the SE. Guildford ? There are numerous club shows around the country. Times have changed, fuel costs being the most obvious, both for traders and public. Picketts Lock used to be heaving, the last Ally P was not ! IF someone was to organise a big show in the SE would it get enough support ? On past ratings I doubt it ! Midland or Ally P were both about 3 hours drive for me, Lowmex about 1.5. I will go to both ! The internet has much to answer for, but for those who need advice or help in their purchase the REAL shop can offer a service – but it costs ! This is true of the traders at the shows, I we don't spend, then the traders will go, they have ! And shortly after so will the show – they have. The Midland is in a unique position but if WE do not support it – it will also Go ! There will be no more free lunches ! Noel.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Guildford is now a lot smaller than it used to be and is more just an open day for the track. Insurance and marquee hire became too great for the club to risk it as poor weather would reduce the gate and they would make a loss.

That is another issue for the likes of Ally Pally, being in January could put it at risk of snowy weather which would again keep numbers through the gate down and with higer costs for the organisers the risk of a loss is far more than one this time of year in a venue they own.

Having Model engineer and teh London show around the same time of year was never going to help as people either visited one and not the other or if they visite dboth only had the same amount to spend over the two shows so half the possible sales for the traders who still have to pay to attend both shows.

As Benedict has shown in his other DRO thread with people taking the chance to buy direct from the far eastern selling sites that too has reduced sales for the UK suppliers so even less income likely from attending an ever more costly show. Can't really complain about a lack of shows if you don't support those attending.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, in addition to what JasonB has said, Ally Pally is now in the ULEZ, so that may well put many people off going there, but I started going on the train after one year when they started having the snooker or the darts there at the same time, and parking spaces became difficult to find, but the train journey was strait forward for me. I do though intend to go to the Midlands one on one of the days, and it's always been my favourite one.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 29/09/2023 10:39:10

[Benedict WhiteParticipant @benedictwhite51126]

JasonB, there have not been any shows for me to go to since 2020. If there were, I do have cash to spend at one, and will not actually buy a DRO until after the Midland exhibition which I hope to attend, though it is a 6 hour trip both ways for me.

I have a pot of cash which is made up of money people have given me that I did not ask for as well as YouTube earnings.

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

The first one I ever went to was at the Seymour Hall in the early 1970s, just a lad in those days.

YeS, I remember the Seymour hall, first M.E.E. I went to around 1974/5.

It was a little cramped, everything seemed to be squeezed in.

It was much better when the exhibition moved to Wembley a few years later

I remember the Seymour hall had a good sized adjacent swimming pool which looked very inviting. No towel and bathers so couldn't have a dip!!!!

Geoff

[Philip RoweParticipant @philiprowe13116]

Posted by geoff walker 1 on 29/09/2023 13:04:34:

I remember the Seymour hall had a good sized adjacent swimming pool which looked very inviting. No towel and bathers so couldn't have a dip!!!!

Geoff

I have a recollection of that swimming pool being used for the boats that were displayed at the exhibition, this would have been circa 1970 – 72.

My earliest memories of the ME exhibitions were at the Horticultural Hall in Westminster in the early 50s, where amongst all the usual exhibitors there was control line flying around a central pole and tethered racing cars. Very exciting to a 5 year old. I can't remember for certain whether there was any safety netting/barrier, but I don't think there was, imagine doing that nowadays!

Phil

[Benedict WhiteParticipant @benedictwhite51126]

Posted by Philip Rowe on 29/09/2023 13:53:56:

I have a recollection of that swimming pool being used for the boats that were displayed at the exhibition, this would have been circa 1970 – 72.

My earliest memories of the ME exhibitions were at the Horticultural Hall in Westminster in the early 50s, where amongst all the usual exhibitors there was control line flying around a central pole and tethered racing cars. Very exciting to a 5 year old. I can't remember for certain whether there was any safety netting/barrier, but I don't think there was, imagine doing that nowadays!

Phil

That does sound exciting!

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

Just sitting here feeling a bit sad that the South East hasn’t been able to organise a model engineering exhibition this January. I have many memories of being inspired out to see London, and the MEX on a bright but brisk January morning.

I’m not fan of Sadiq Kahn, the whole ULEZ thing is woeful, but I am a little surprised that some people need to attend by car. I live South of London by the coast, and I’ve driven to London on quite a few occasions, but I wouldn’t consider it the norm. Luckily enough my car is ULEZ exempt, but I wouldn’t drive it to Muswell Hill unless I really had to.

London has fantastic public transport links and I don’t really understand why people cant get there by train. For me the ME exhibition has always been a day out on the train to Wembley or Ally Pally. Even if you live miles from a station, it’s got to be worthwhile to drive to one, and then catch a train. I know model engineering isn’t solely about railway locomotives, but railways are a big part of the hobby. It’s almost as if model engineers don’t actually like trains any more!

Times do change, and with mail order being so good – I don’t see the need to buy stuff at an exhibition. I could certainly believe that getting to “lay hands on” a machine tool might sway a purchase, but I have no need to see lots of commercial stands. If they don’t at least pay for themselves, it doesn’t matter that they aren’t there.

I like the idea to support the Ally Pally, and I know it needs that, but that isn’t the job of model engineering. If model engineering can’t find a suitable venue in London, then really it must creatively have died. A smaller venue for just clubs and societies would be fine by me. Maybe a couple of portable tracks. Enticed perhaps to attend with the possibility of support beyond what they might charge for rides on the day.

My favourite with the MEX was always the “O” gauge live steam stands. It’s just the killer app for that kind of exhibition. Lightweight but still live steam – most of my memory is that smell of the burning meths. I’d also be happy to see/encourage more “ordinary” models. Everyone loves a perfect looking King or a Duchess, but the most important part of the hobby is a Doris or a Petrolea with the paint falling off.

There still is an exhibition in March “The London Festival of Railway Modelling”. It’s not model engineering, but it is railways. It looks like that will have to be the thing for now.

If anyone is thinking of doing something in the next decade, all I would say is that just because it is London – for me it doesn’t have to be a massive commercial event. Given that there isn’t anything in the South East now for “model engineering”, I’m sure plenty of interest would remain.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Regarding Driving I always went by car from just inside j6 of the M25.

Not only was it quicker than walk, bus, train but I would usually have something to drop off be it materials, or castings of a finished model for someone so it was not ideal lugging that around on public transport.

Then I would also buy things be they a set of second hand castings picked up from someone in the car park but I’d also stock up on materials including castings and tooling. Many times I have walked back down the hill to the carpark 3 or 4 times in teh day as the carrier bags were about to sever my fingers so I needed to lighten the load  a few times. and that would be a lot to lug back by public transport and then the final walk from the bus stop.

Then there were times when I exhibited so had to take models and bring them back again so car suited me again.

This is the typical thing I come back with after a meeting in a car park, these from the bristol show

[Andy AshParticipant @andyash24902]

I never had wealth like that, and I suspect that most people think they have to have that wealth to make it work. I don’t think they do, but no doubt the people of Bristol will thank you.

I just think the critical aspect of the exhibition is the opportunity to be inspired and make connections.

I’m probably wrong, but surely the hobby isn’t about creating opportunities to be seen buying so much stuff you can’t move?

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Planning for the 2024 Midland MEX will soon start ! In fact the date has already been set. Unfortunatly Ally Pally is gone and is unlikely to return !

SO, some on here have contact with the organisers and could put forward ideas as to what the buying public want, I for one have some ideas I will put forward ! There have been several interesting ideas contained in this tread that I will carry forward. If you have any ideas post them here or PM me, but bear in mind this ONLY refers to the MIDLAND MEX ! Noel.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

Planning for the 2024 Midland MEX will soon start ! In fact the date has already been set. Unfortunatly Ally Pally is gone and is unlikely to return !

SO, some on here have contact with the organisers and could put forward ideas as to what the buying public want, I for one have some ideas I will put forward ! There have been several interesting ideas contained in this tread that I will carry forward. If you have any ideas post them here or PM me, but bear in mind this ONLY refers to the MIDLAND MEX ! Noel.

I think you’re right about Ally Pally. I’ve been to the Midlands Exhibition once, but it is a bit of a trek for me. If anything I said is helpful, I’m glad – but I’m not intent on forcing anyone to do anything. I do think the space it leaves is an opportunity for someone with a bit of judgement to make a few quid.

I hope you have a great exhibition this year. No doubt many who might have gone to London will choose the Midlands instead. For me it’s a stretch too far as a day trip. It doesn’t seem big enough to make a two day thing out of it.

 

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Andy –

Transport and ULEZ….

That’s less of a problem for we ordinary day-visitors although train fares are steep. Two or more sharing a car can share the emissions fee along with sharing the fuel cost, and we pay that out of our pocket-money, just as we pay for our own entry ticket and all the goodies we buy.

The serious problem is for the commercial exhibitors. They can only justify attending any exhibition anywhere if the show income (direct-purchase and from orders taken) is likely to at least reasonably offset not only the ULEZ fees and fuel but also the staff pay and accommodation, and the hall rental share.

I do not know what sort of hall rates are charged, so I don’t know if this is a fair accusation, but I have heard many people believe the venue owners in Doncaster and Harrogate – let alone London – deterred the larger traders by over-high floor-space fees.

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Nor do I know how major shows are insured.

It may be relatively easy and even vaguely economical to insure events in large-scale commercial show-grounds, if only by having specialist insurers who understand the exhibition trade generally; helped by the companies having the resources and knowledge to comply efficiently with legislative and insurers’ own demands. It would still be very high of course: an insurance company’s purpose is to profit from making a big pot of shared money from which to “compensate” claimants by, effectively, usury-level loans.

So finding insurance for small, volunteer-run events of any sort, may be very difficult and expensive, if not downright impossible. Worse, the risk of insurers, third-party claimants’ and lawyers’ greed can even permanently end events that have run for years with no serious problems.

””’

Meanwhile we don’t exactly help ourselves, do we? Yes, I do mean those who moan about the advertisements on here – selected from engineering-equipment specialists advertising engineering products on an engineering site at that – and blandly recommend buying not from them but via remote, aardvarks to zootropes, American and Chinese web-sites.

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