LMS 2F Experiences

[Bryan Cedar 1Participant @bryancedar1]

Has any ME member of the Forum any experience or comment on the "Twin Sisters" LMS 2F

I am considering acquiring one. The ash grate and tray are difficult to manage and I would like to know the best way to deal with this issue. The version is the fully detailed one.

Does any member run one ?

[Bryan Cedar 1Participant @bryancedar1]

“Twin Sisters” 0-6-0 Tank

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Bryan,

Designed by Jack Austen Walton from the late 1940s over a very extended period described in ME. The boiler designed by Jack was a very poor dangerous design. Lots of features departed from LBSC standards just for the sake of it apparently, and you have already noted the problem with the grate and ashpan over the rear axle.

If made to drawings (the boiler design was quickly altered) I would give it a miss. If the builder has made substantial improvements then it might be worth a punt.

The Kennions/GLR 'Butch' is very very similar and there is one in my workshop at the moment for repair and is perhaps the most badly designed miniature loco I have ever encountered.

I have seen lots of 'Twin Sisters' over the years on display but never one running. I dont ever recall the design being held in high regard.

I have always taken the view that what is in essence a shunting loco is unsuitable for passenger hauling in miniature simply due to the boiler proportions (small grate area) and you end up having to force the firebed resulting in clinkering etc.

Just my personal opinion of course.

Cheers,

Julian

[Bryan Cedar 1Participant @bryancedar1]

Hello Julian

Many thanks for your reply. Not very encouraging but most helpful. The model I was considering IS to the published design. As such I gather that you advise AVOID. Can you elaborate on "(the boiler design was quickly altered)"

Interesting that Kennions continue to market castings, drawings etc.

There seem to be few of these locos coming to the market.

Thanks again, Regards

Bryan

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Bryan,

I doubt the boiler would be built to the original design as it was seriously flawed and quickly altered.

Externally and superficially it is a nice compact loco.

But it is an old design by a long forgotten model engineer, and the construction series was not a great success.

GLR/Kennions continue to market it because it shares the same castings as their 'Butch'.

If the loco you intend to purchase is 'in ticket' then have a drive of same before purchase. Or else get someone experienced to have a drive while you watch on behind on the driving trolley.

If it doesnt have a current boiler ticket and paper trail of previous tickets then that opens a different can of worms.

Cheers,

Julian

[John Ockleshaw 1Participant @johnockleshaw1]

Hello Bryan,

I tried to build the original boiler, none of the inner firebox plates were flanged, as it cooled during silver soldering the butt joints opened up.

Subsequently I built a gas fired boiler with the same outside dimensions, which is very successful.

I filled the side tanks with steel ballast to give it more adhesion.

The four wheel riding car is made from four lengths of steel tube which act as a gas tank, it carries a water tank as well as the driver.

The loco drives and hauls well.

Regards, John

[Peter LayfieldParticipant @peterlayfield]

Yes the boiler plates were not flanged, but nobody would build it like that ,The model was built to a scale

of 1" to 1ft, not the usual 1 1/16" which is the norm for 5" gauge , but other wise a nice little model

[MEinThailandParticipant @meinthailand]

There is an interesting discussion about the need to flange copper boilers on this forum and the Twin Sisters flangless boiler design is referenced and discussed. Also on the same thread in that forum, calculations are presented that prove, from a structural strength perspective that flanges are not needed at silver soldered copper boiler joints.

In fact a T joint without flanges (such as at the smokebox tubeplate) only has to be 18% as strong as the copper it is joining.

Flangeless Boiler Design Vindicated?​

Well, to my surprise (April 2025) I recently came across and example of this (5″ Gauge LMS 2F dock tank Twin Sisters) boiler built to the original flangeless design for sale (as part of a loco) for sale (now sold) on a reputable website:-

https://www.steamworkshop.co.uk/portfolio/5-lms-2f-3/

Quote: The boiler is of course also brand new and made to the published design,….. and fully silver soldered copper construction.

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Julian, if I may digress slightly, you mention the similarity with the kennions design Butch. You consider it to be badly designed please could you elaborate as I have one, I also have the drawings and would like to know what might be altered to improve it ? Noel.

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