Lister Diesel Engine

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

IanSC, that's a bit OTT, burying the frying pan ! Don't you have a dog?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

When my wife lived in Sussex she complained to the council about rats. they found a huge nest in a a car buried at the bottom of her garden…

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

To get back to some sense- I've worked in a couple of founderys, Castings were usually stacked outside, the only place with the room to store them all. Sometimes they might be around for some years before needed. When a prospective buyer came to view and asked why all the castings were outside and rusting they would be told that they had been weathered, and of course would be more expensive.

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Gordon

I don't know much about foundry work but the men who told me about Rolls Royce burring engine blocks in the ground were the worlds most respected engineers and I heard it many times. Thats all I know and I would like to know what the hell it was supposed to do. The funny thing is that some of the old tradesman I worked with also knew about it but I never pursued the topic. I wish some of them were still alive so I could ask them.

One thing I did find out recently is all the engines on the Mitchell Bomber had solid pure silver bearings and I think the B25 did also.

Maybe its lost forever.

Larry

[steveteeParticipant @stevetee]

I wonder if it's at all possible that these might be the same highly respected enginers who will send an apprentice off to the stores for a long stand, or a safe edge for a file, or off on any other false errand around the factory for a bit of fun. Machining castings for 50 years can be rather boring at times ( haha) and occasionally the older tradesmen might liven their working day up by having a bit of fun at the expense of a newcomer, sometimes without them even realising , if it was done well.

Seriously though think about it, if you paint a piece of wood or spill some paint on concrete, you can see the paint soak in and that just doesn't happen with steel or cast iron does it? I would agree with the comments above from Gordon W, that is that castings were just put outside to weather, often for years on end. I'd rather this doesn't degenerate into a yes it did, no it didn't type post, but without a rational explanation or any evidence confirming the practice, I think you might have been misled.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My Machinery's handbook has something to say on silver bearings. It';'s used as an overplate on steel backings, band has excellent fatigue resistance, but poor embedability and scoring resistance, so somethimes it is overplated itself with softer metals.

Neil

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I've never heard of burying castings, but a pal who once worked at the Rolls Royce diesel plant at Shrewsbury once assured me that, after rough machining, crankshafts were put out in the yard to weather and rust for several months before being brought in for finishing.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Weathering raw castings is an established practice and there is some logic behind it. It seems that the process normalises the material so that they are better able to withstand stresses. Famously, the BMW Formula 1 engines of the 1980s turbo era were made from raw production castings that had been weathered for many years, as they found them to be more durable. The engines used a std block. I recall that from the time although now it's entering internet folklore territory and is now in danger of becoming an urban myth.

Murray

PS – as ever, it's already been done on this forum. Bad echo in here!

Edited By Muzzer on 08/01/2015 15:53:42

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Iron castings left outside,continually expand and contract as they warm up in daytime and cool at night,this continual movement gradually relieves internal stresses in the casting. Castings for use in the very best machine tools were left in the open for up to three years, Where i worked castings for instruments and optical benches were often left for a few months and then rough machined and left for some time before finish machining, Aluminium castings can be heat treated to relieve stress ,this was common practice on early hard drives. To speed up stress relieving in iron castings they can be heat treated, I once visited Massey Fergusson at Coventry many years ago ,they did not stress their relieve iron castings or even machine the oldest stock first, but they did anneal all their steel bar material and forgings, it was straight from the cut off saws straight into the furnace on a slow moving chain conveyor, It was found many years ago that some car engines tended to burn engine oil after a decoke and it was suspected that the cylinders were made from new green castings and any stress remained there locked in the block,when the the cylinder head was removed the clamping action of the head bolt was released and the cylinders slightly deformed ,resulting in oil passing the piston rings.

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Eric

You have done a first class job on those parts. Do you pour the castings yourself. Have you had much experiance with casting sand for the molds.

I am building a furnace here on my property and I have never made a sand mold before. I also have access to deadburned magnesia dust because I worked as a fitter in the process plant.

I was thinking if I mix plaster of paris with that magnesia dust I wonder if I could pour brass and aluminium in them without an explosion. Naturally they would be dryed first. What do you think.?

Larry

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 19/01/2015 15:22:12

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Neil

I would imagine those silver bearings would have a steel backing plate but the person from the Australian Museam told me they were solid silver. I don't know because I have never seen one.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Stevetee

Well you believe what ever turns you on, but the process of burying engine castings in the ground was passed on to me by an engineer at De Havilands, Gorden who's father built the spitfire aircraft and I remember seeing a picture of the ground with white posts marking each casting.

Also who said cast iron was not pourous. It definatly is and that was confirmed yesterday by an engineeer at a foundry in NSW. And lets not be silly it does not have one eigth holes in it. Its microscopic.

Larry

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 19/01/2015 15:43:31

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Hi Larry,

I had the parts cast in my local foundry after I had made the patterns.

I had a little experience with sand moulding in the foundry when I was an apprentice and this was the most interesting part of the time I spent in the works before returning to the drawing office. So ever since foundry work has had a fascination for me.

The little local foundry that I use now does most of its castings using the CO2 sand setting process.You can do this yourself quite easily particularly if you have access to CO2 as in Mig welding.

**LINK**

Eric

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Eric

What I am trying to do is use what I have here at my place. yes I can buy all the special additives but I am looking for somthing cheap. Poor pensioner here. I have poured lead in pure Plaster but I an wondering if brass may be a bit hot.

I can get plenty of clay in a creek which was used for making bricks for a copper smelter in the 1800's. I think I will just have to experiment.

Larry

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