Lister Diesel Engine

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

It is brass Jason

Eric

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Finally got around to completiong the drawings

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

I finally completed all the details and parts list.

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Patrick O'.Donnell of BC Canada is doing a splendid job of machining an engine using my castings and drawings.

He is photographing his progress and we are publishing them as a serial on my facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lister-CS-61-Model-Diesel-Engine/270681059792379?ref=hl

Eric

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Ennech

You have done a top job on that engine. I am curious regarding the injector pump, What are you going to use.

I have the real engine here on my property as a standby generator and there are a lot of bits in that injector pump.

Regards

Larry

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Thanks Larrry, it did entail a few hours of work.

The Injector pump is pretty well as George made it. I have tweaked it a bit to make it a bit easier to make. The critical part really is the injector itself. There are very critical bits in there . George's model worked but I think that it worked not quite as George expected.

Eric

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Eric

Never the less you have done a great job.

By the way are you aware of the Bamford engines which has four bolts in the sump which you remove to work on the crank shaft. At the back of the block is a hinge so you can lay the engine forward and you don't have to drain the sump. Briliant piece of engineering for the time they were built. Those old low reving engines were real workers and my Lister is still running.

When I get a chance I will post some pictures.

All the best

Larry

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Yes Larry I have a liking for the old slow revving beasts. I rebuilt a Petter PH2 for use in my first canal narrowboat. I had ambitions to produce full size Gardner 2LW engines for canal use. I have 3D modeled the crankcase working from the works drawings but thats as far as it got although I did produce some rocker covers that were quite nice.

Eric

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Eric

So you have had a canal boat. They are real works of art, what timber do they use for the hull and are they corked with rope & tar.

I've seen them on TV in Australia but have never seen one for real. Are they roved with copper nails. Your so lucky.

Larry

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Hi Larry,

I have had two canal narrowboats, the first 46 feet long and the second 57 feet in length. I fitted both out on custom built steel shells. I don;t have a boat now but I keep a an interest particularly as my daughter and her husband are planning to buy one of their own to live on.Canal boats have not been made of wood for a long time. probably about 100 years ago working boats started to be made from riveted wrought iron. Currently boat shells are made from welded steel.

This is a picture of the saloon of my first boat.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A few years back a Kiwi bloke in England was building a smaller size of narrow boat with a fibre glass hull.

Sorry OT.

Ian S C

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

There are many fibre glass boats on the canals Ian. I had a small one myself before the steel boats. They lack stability and are all over the place. Very hard to control in a small space. Nothing like a few tons of steel drawing about 2 feet of water!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Ennech, can well understand that about handling unless the hull is well designed.

Ian S C

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

The big thing, Ian is that on the canals you have to get on and off the boat very frequently and a skittish light boat makes this hazardous. The other thing is that you don't go far without hitting something or something hitting you. Therefore a steel boat has many practical advantages on the English canals.

Eric

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

Eric

You have me totally facinated in that beautiful living area. Just think if you don't like your neighbour you drop the ropes and move away. How cool is that. My place is nice 1Km x 1KM but I would love to live on one of those boats for a while. Whats it like living on a canal boat.

Larry

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

By the way, getting back to engines.

Those Listers are beautiful engines but the one that facinated me was the Bamford with the crank case hinge.

The man that thought of that inovation was a real thinker and if they were manufactured today they would sell heaps of them. Its interesting, I wonder if the Listers would sell today if they were mass produced.

Larry

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 30/12/2014 13:19:09

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Any Kiwis wanting to know more about the canals can visit the CRT Website.

Neil

<Disclaimer – I'm a CRT volunteer (of the clean handed variety, I'm afraid)>

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

If your talking about the Listers like the model in this posting then yes they are produced in India as Listeroids http://www.vidhataindia.com/lister.htm

Martin P

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Talking about living on a boat Larry, My daughter is now planning to return from Spain where she has lived for the last 12 years to live on a canal boat here!.. I understand the Indian Listers dont have a very good name for reliability Martin.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Ennech,

The quality of the engines is not very good, I restore Lister petrol engines and show them and several people I know have bought them and had lots of problems with broken cranks, sand falling out of castings etc, the old genuine diesels have gone up in price by a large amount as people are now getting them to build generator sets to run on Biodiesel, I would love a CS but I'm not paying the money they are now fetching, I will stick to my twenty plus petrol engines, oldest 1919, youngest 1955.

Martin P

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Sounds like it might be wise for me to start to make patterns for a full size CS then Martin

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Now there's an Idea

[Larry Coleman 1Participant @larrycoleman1]

I heard of those indian engines as well and I believe they are full of elephant toe nails. Now think about what Rolls Royce did in WW2. They beried there engine blocks in the ground for twelve months before machining them.

Does anyone know what effect this had to the castings. And is it true?

Now apparently I have a rare engine here in my pump shed its a lister twin cylinder diesel GP4 and it was rescued from the bottom of the Murry river where it layed in water for thirty years.

As soon as I can I will post some pictures of it for you to see.

Also there is a company here in Australia that sells & repairs pump engines and the owner loves those old engines and I think they are lister agents.

In a town called Wagga Wagga in NSW there is a foundry that still makes cast iron gates and the owner would be interested in doing those engines.

Larry

Edited By Larry Coleman 1 on 02/01/2015 13:39:45

[EnnechParticipant @ennech]

Hi Larry,

I should be very interested in seeing your engine when you get it sorted.

I have never heard about cast iron blocks being buried in the ground except where someone had made a mess of machining and wanted to hide it from the foreman! It was standard practice I understand at the BSA factory in Birmingham to sling scrappers in the adjacent canal. It was and I am sure that in some places practice to leave castings outside to weather and stress relieve for some months before machining them..

The little foundry I use here still makes cast iron ornamental railings.

I would love to get involved with full scale engines too.

Eric

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Cast iron does benefit from seasoning in a yard outdoors. This gives time for the cooling/shrinkage stresses in the iron to release naturally. It gives castings that are very stable dimensionally over time. Widely done years ago for machine tools, sometimes castings were seasoned for a year or two. Probably not done today for most high production volume machine tools.

The process can also be simulated and accelerated greatly by a combination of heat treatment and shot peening with steel shot in a Wheelabrator machine. This process was invented in the 1920's in USA for Model T Fords and is still done today for high production volume quick production things like car engines and agricultural machine parts as well as paint removal and surface microcrack reduction for fatique resistance, on a large scale.

I very much doubt RR did any seasoning of Merlin engine blocks outdoors, due to time pressure – the demand for engines was extreme in wartime. Not sure if they used Wheelabrator machines. Packard in USA, who built Merlins under license from RR, certainly did so on their blocks and heads.

In any case I also doubt if they would bury the blocks if they did have time for seasoning them – removal of soil and risk of dirt getting into passages after seasoning would be good reasons not to bury a block, and the action of soil would not help the seasoning process, in fact it may inhibit the effect. Seasoning outdoors is primarily a heat/cool/repeat process rather than any other effects that happen outdoors. If buried, the heat/cool cycle would be slowed vs being in open air on wood blocks. JD

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