Linux Mint – but with problems

[lekmirParticipant @lekmir]

I hope it’s OK to present this topic her, it seems there is no computer related thread.

The recent discussions about Linux made me want to try it also. So I downloaded Linux Mint on a USB stick. Beforehand , I asked the KI if Linux can be installed anywhere (not only on drive C:), the answer was yes. So I divided my large disk space into half, creating a partition named L:.
I learned that the downloaded fule is not the bootable version, so used the program ‘etcher’ to create a bootable file on the USB stick. Then I tried with some difficulties to boot from that stick. On my PC the menues during the boot flash over the screen with hyper speed, but I think i managed to hit the correct buttons. Unfortunately, nothing happens except a black screen.
I then tried to install the system on that dedicated partition L:. Something has happened, but when I look (under Windows) what’s in there, it shows my waste bin (which surely should not be there). I tried then to boot from L:, but naturally the boot system does not know the drive letters, but some strange names. As I have 3 hard disks and several USB drives connected, I’m a bit lost. Anyway, I tried the one t thought could be the right one, but no success.
During the above actions, I remember having once seen the Mint logo on the screen, but nothing more. I at least expected a terminal, if not even a colourful desktop.

Many years ago, I had a small system with Ubuntu on it (because I once had plans to CNC-ing a lathe with EMC (iirc)). At least this system worked, and I even could play games on it, but only if I left the CD inserted in the computer. This system has landed in the recycle bin long ago, but Linux still has some appeal, as many people use it trouble free.

Maybe in my age it should not try to learn new tricks…

Kind regards,
Hans

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

The installation process should be straightforward, no need to partition the disk before installation the install program will do all that for you.

1. Download fresh copy of Mint there are three versions Cinnamon, Mate and Xfce. Cinnamon is most like Windows current version is 22.1 (xia)
2. Make the downloaded .iso file bootable using balenaEtcher or Rufus
3. Make sure that the PC will boot from usb, may need to go into the BIOS to set this up
4. Turn the PC off, insert USB drive and restart PC (There should be no black screens or flashing menus) should boot straight into a running version of MINT
5. You can explore Linux Mint or to see if you like it. If you decide to go ahead there is an Install Icon on the desktop
6. Click on the install and the machine will go through a series of menus for the usual Location, Timezone, Connect to WiFi and then it will arrive at the options screen.
7. 
8.  Select Install alongside Windows . This will partition the disc and set the space for Linux and leave sufficient space for Windows. If you want it to do anything special choose the 3rd option -Something Else
9. Wait while it installs 20minutes or so.
10. It will tell you when to reboot and remove the USB. When it starts up you should be offered the choice between Windows and Linux.

Hope all goes well if not try the Linux Installation Guide

John

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi Hans,

I think the mistake was creating L:

That’s a partition allocated to Windows, not free for Linux, and it may have confused the installer.  You don’t need to create an L: Better to let the installer organise the disc, no need to do it yourself.

I can’t remember exactly how, but with a partition tool in Windows delete L: and allocate the space to C:  Then boot Windows and conform C: is full size.  The disc needs to be fixed – no L:

With L: gone run the USB Linux installer again.  What it does is scan C: to find how much of the space available is consumed already by Windows, and then it offers to repartition the disc.   So if it said C: was 100Gb used of a 500Gb disc, you might tell the installer to partition the disc at 250Gb.  It’s very simple.

Now the installer knows there’s a partition with Windows in it, and there’s an empty one into which it can instal Linux.  The partition containing Windows isn’t touched.

Having copied Linux into the new partition, the installer changes the disc’s boot partition to do a dual boot.  When rebooted the computer displays a menu listing the operating systems available and the operator can choose either Windows or Linux.

Disc partitioning is a hardware feature, not controlled by Windows or Linux.  Unless told, they don’t know how a disc is partitioned.  They only need to know how much space is available to them.

Dave

 

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

I have VMware on my laptop with a 4TB hard drive with 1TB partitioned for other operating systems (OS). I have it like that  because I sometimes need to use XP for some old tech. I have loaded Ubuntu, Mint and Knoppix onto this partition for trying out by searching what was recommended for loading Ubuntu into VMware. It is quite easy.

You start off by setting up a new OS in VMware but telling it you will load the OS later. Then when you go to that OS you tell it where the ISO image is for the OS and load it from that image.

Martin C

[lekmirParticipant @lekmir]

Ok, here again and many thanks.

Firstly, I should say that I have 3 disks in my computer.

1. a SSD, 120GB, as C: and almost full

2. a Harddisk. 465 GB, as D:, almost empty

3. another Harddisk. 1 TB, as E:, almost empty also

SOD says, delete L: and allocate the space to C:

Deleting I did successfully, but I didn’t know that C: can be spread out to a second disk, and also don’t know how to do that.

I will try the installation process again now, with the storage system as it was before my tampering.

Regards,
Hans

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Even if drive C can be spread across 2 discs, I don’t think that’s advisable. Best to create space, if needed, on your ssd by moving files onto one of your other discs. I very recently installed Linux Mint on an elderly Windows laptop. I used a portable version of Rufus to create a bootable USB stick. Very straightforward. IIRC, during the install I was asked if I wanted Linux to install either alongside Windows or to completely erase the C drive prior to install. If the latter option is chosen then you need to back-up your data files on another disc beforehand.

[lekmirParticipant @lekmir]

So it seems I cannot install Linux on this PC. On C: there are mostly files from Windows and installed programs, I think I can not move them to another disk. Further, it seems I can’t boot from a USB stick, there is no USB mentioned in the Bios boot menu.

Maybe I could continue on my laptop, which has (only) one gigantic 2TB SSD.

Regards,
Hans

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Depending on the BIOS it may not show the USB boot option unless there is actually a USB plugged in. Try booting into the BIOS with a USB plugged in. It may then give you the option of altering the boot order preference. If it does move the USB to the top of the list above the HDD.

If there is not enough room on the C drive for the whole of the Linux install it can be made to install on another drive and just put the Boot partition onto the C drive but you will probably have to do that from the 3rd ‘Something Else’ option on the install menu.

John

[lekmir]

On lekmir Said:

So it seems I cannot install Linux on this PC. On C: there are mostly files from Windows and installed programs, I think I can not move them to another disk. Further, it seems I can’t boot from a USB stick, there is no USB mentioned in the Bios boot menu.

Maybe I could continue on my laptop, which has (only) one gigantic 2TB SSD.

Regards,
Hans

Lekmir my boot menu doesn’t have a USB choice but it does have ‘ external devices ‘ which is what I use.

H

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the current issue [feb 2025] of Linux Magazine has a dvd which includes Mint 22 – installing from these dvds is generally fool proof – however Windoze doesn’t play well with sharing a harddrive with Linux – often much easier to swop in a new harddrive – smaller 2nd hand SSDs are relatively cheap

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Frances, do you mean issue 291? Hate to buy the wrong one as it’s £9

My old laptop has mint 18 and W10 (well out of date) Starting again to have only mint 22 feels best for a non nerd like me (only joking)

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Duncan (and others), presumably your PC has an optical disk drive. Save yourself 9 quid and go to your favoured Linux distribution’s site; there you’ll be able to download an .iso file of the appropriate version for your hardware. Then you need to use your CD/DVD burning software to ‘burn’ the .iso image file to the disk. It’s a good idea to check the disk’s integrity, but most distros will offer to do this during the installation process. (I suspect you knew all this already…)

… and for others who may need reassurance: once you’ve fiddled with the BIOS, to make the PC boot from the optical drive, or USB stick before the HDD/SSD, the burned disk or USB stick will bring up a working instance of Linux, and you can then check to see that all peripherals work properly, and decide whether you like Linux. It will run painfully slowly, from DVD, but somewhat more quickly from USB. You’ll also be able to access your HDD/SSD (this is a good way to attempt to rescue a misbehaving system…). Throughout all this, you have the option to install Linux, and the installer will hold your hand through the (easy) process. The only possibly tricky bit is to make the best choices about partitioning your HDD/SSD, so Linux doesn’t take over the entire storage, if you don’t want that. It will install itself alongside Windoze, giving a dual-boot option, if told to, but beware, Windoze installation after Linux will result in Linux being over-written by Windoze. Not sure whether a Windoze update mucks up Linux: others will know.

Once installed, connect to the internet and update everything. This is important!. It will likely be a massive update, but will not take ages.

Hope this helps someone.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I finally managed to make bootable USB stick (using Rufus) and have now installed Mint 22.1 Cinnamon on a PC that was running Win 7 home until about a year ago. The PC has 1.8GHz Atom and 2GB memory but it ran Windows 7 quite speedily,

Now with Mint installed its so sluggish its not really usable.

I used the TOP command hoping it was similar to Windows task manager and would give me graphical view of what might be slowing things down, the report though shows 205 tasks of which 203 are sleeping and from what I cant tell about half the RAM is free.

Where do I start diagnosing why it is so slow?

Ian P

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The slowness may be due to having to read everything off the USB.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Its installed and running very slow from the hard disk now.

It was very slow when I ran it from the USB and installing took quite a while (about 1 hour) but I did think it might fly (by comparison) but its fluttering and not off the ground yet.

Ian P

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

Its installed and running very slow from the hard disk now.

It was very slow when I ran it from the USB and installing took quite a while (about 1 hour) but I did think it might fly (by comparison) but its fluttering and not off the ground yet.

Ian P

Ian there is something very wrong with your USB/Install it should only take a few mins to write a bootable USB, then in my case Ive never know it take more than 10-15 mins to install personalty I would suggest you start over re-write your USB and re-install !I see you have used rufus I prefer Balena Etcher it’s a lot simpler to use

H

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[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Loads of tools.  I take it not the USB as Bazyle suggests because Mint is installed.

Most obviously the computer is a weakling and Mint a hefty distribution.  A 1.8Ghz Atom is slow, and 2Gb RAM is tiny. Could be a quart in a pint pot problem.   My daughter owned one, because it was cheap for a student, and it came with a stripped down Windows.  Only had room on the disc for a couple of applications and it was slow compared with my £laptop.

Tools for investigating from the command line, in the order I’d try them, your choice may be better:

free – shows used and free memory.  Only having 2Gb available is bad news, even if free looks reasonably healthy.  Problem is Linux uses all the memory it can to buffer files for performance, and almost everything in Linux is a file!  If RAM is low, very little is buffered and everything is read slowly off the disc.  Chug chug…     An Atom without much RAM implies a low-end machine, so the disc could be slow as well.

vmstat -shows virtual memory.  This is where the OS stores processes that have to be swapped in and out to make space.  Excessive swapping, due to RAM and the swap space being too small, causes thrashing, in which the OS spends more time organising what will be run next than running it!   When tiny RAM is all that’s available, it makes sense to allocate a swap partition of at least the same size.   Usually offered as an option by the installer – if there isn’t a swap partition consider adding one.

free and vmstat should identify if the problem is memory.  If not, keep going…

top – lists processes in greed order.  Look for anything that’s persistently at the top and running 100% CPU.  Could be running amok, so kill it (type k).  The summary shows load at 1, 5  and 15minute intervals.  ‘load’ is a measure of how long the process queue is on average.  Up to 3 is normal, longer queues suggest the hardware isn’t getting through the work fast enough, often insufficient RAM, but maybe faulty hardware.  Discs often go into a slow decline in which blocks have to be reread several times to get past the checksum check.  Faulty network cards, and poor network connections can also cause sluggish behaviour.   If the disc is failing, it’s likely many blocks are bad, and it should be replaced. If the disc is suspected, investigate badblocks.  Approach with extreme caution – it can destroy the disc! If the disc contains valuable data, back it up…

dmesg – lists what was loaded during boot.  Look for warnings and errors.

mpstat – shows what the CPU is doing – time spent on user, on system, and waiting for IO, idling etc.

pidstat – shows what processes are doing, useful for looking at top’s list of suspects.  But try it anyway.

ifstat – shows what the network is doing.  Look for excessive error repeats.  A few don’t matter, but showers of them are bad.

Whatever it is, not disc fragmentation.  That’s a Windows problem.

Dave

 

 

 

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

This is what the first two tools produce (formatting is all to c-ck, but it is in terminal anyway)

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$ free
total          used            free          shared buff/cache available
Mem:         2004840     1009620      119924      112336 1174228      995220
Swap:        6199292      432664     5766628

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$ vmstat
procs ———–memory———- —swap– —–io—- -system———cpu——-
r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in   cs us sy id wa st gu
2  0 432664 119924  16532 1153552   25   65   748   785  444    3 10 7 79  5  0  0

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$

Does it confirm this Asus box is unsuitable?

Ian P

 

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Well, there’s a substantial amount of memory free (though the swap use might be  excessive), so it should be OK from that point of view.

Assuming there’s nothing actually wrong, and that it’s just that your machine isn’t up to the job, you could try one of the special lightweight Linux distros. Have a look on this page:

https://www.techradar.com/news/best-lightweight-linux-distro

Some of them look promising – I noticed that there’s one that only needs 500 MB RAM, and another that’s designed to run from USB without an actual install. I should avoid anything that seems super-lightweight and minimalist – they’re aimed at hard core geeks.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Ian P – As a very long term Linux user, some years ago I made the mistake of buying a laptop fitted with an Intel Atom 1.8 processor. The video hardware was some odd device made by some other company. As I understand it, that company was bought out by Microsoft, who thus gained control of the video device’s software – MS never released the details of that hardware, so Linux was unable to support it (i.e) no hardware acceleration. Linux attempted to support it by using software routines, and this did work – but – its very, very slow – which seems to fit your ‘symptoms’ I forget the name of the chip. but I seem to remember ‘cedar’ came into somewhere (I know, not MS ‘Cedar Lake’)

This lack of suitable dedicated video drivers for the chip in Linux will make both USB and Hard Drive installations very, very slow. There is no solution for it in Linux that I been able to find. I did find a Linux Distro called ‘Meego’, which apparently had support for this chip, but the distro itself was virtually unusable for other reasons.

Also to remove some confusion – Balena Etcher automatically makes a USB bootable when burning an ISO to it. I mention this because there are references to ‘making a USB stick bootable’ : using Balena Etcher to burn an ISO to a USB stick will automatically make that USB stick bootable.

This is the official Linux Mint Installation instructions site:

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

It works fine, and may be less misleading than some.

 

 

[An Other]

On An Other Said:

Ian P – As a very long term Linux user, some years ago I made the mistake of buying a laptop fitted with an Intel Atom 1.8 processor. The video hardware was some odd device made by some other company. As I understand it, that company was bought out by Microsoft, who thus gained control of the video device’s software – MS never released the details of that hardware, so Linux was unable to support it (i.e) no hardware acceleration. Linux attempted to support it by using software routines, and this did work – but – its very, very slow – which seems to fit your ‘symptoms’ I forget the name of the chip. but I seem to remember ‘cedar’ came into somewhere (I know, not MS ‘Cedar Lake’)

This lack of suitable dedicated video drivers for the chip in Linux will make both USB and Hard Drive installations very, very slow. There is no solution for it in Linux that I been able to find. I did find a Linux Distro called ‘Meego’, which apparently had support for this chip, but the distro itself was virtually unusable for other reasons.

Also to remove some confusion – Balena Etcher automatically makes a USB bootable when burning an ISO to it. I mention this because there are references to ‘making a USB stick bootable’ : using Balena Etcher to burn an ISO to a USB stick will automatically make that USB stick bootable.

This is the official Linux Mint Installation instructions site:

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

It works fine, and may be less misleading than some.

 

 

A useful link for anyone starting out on Linux

H

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Mint comes with a good selection of tools – if it is the mickeysoft video driver that is slow this shouldn’t affect other non video operations – the administration menu should give access to a system profiler (at least it did in earlier Mints) which should indicate a problem here – this should indicate with an atom processor a mediocre but usable processing capacity tho the Cinnamon GUI is really designed for considerably more powerful machines – it will be the ray tracing test that will show up an unusable video – assuming that you haven’t selected one of the few machines that can’t support a Linux system then given its spec I’d be looking at a XFCE desktop

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I’m not sure how to diagnose what is actually causing the slowness, even just closing a window is takes a few seconds and there is no indication that the close button has been pressed. Opening, say Firefox takes several seconds and the spinning coloured thing only briefly appears in the last moments before the app opens.

I am now sidetracked from the Mint problem because the 1TB HDD which is the data drive on my main PC has become ‘unformatted’ and all my data lost to Windows. I have downloaded the free ‘test’ version of a recovery program and all my files appear to be present but even if I buy the Pro version there is no guarantee……

Ian

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Ian,

Diagnosing the problem can be a very difficult in this case – if you have a working installation (even a slow one!), you could take a look at ‘System Info’  under the ‘Preferences’ menu – this may tell you the video chip type, and if it is the one I described above, then sadly not a lot can be done. If not, I would cut my losses, and make one more attempt – create a new USB stick from a new ISO download (Check the SHA256 integrity to be sure it wasn’t corrupted during download), then carefully follow through the installation procedure again.

Also for your information, and others who insist that running a USB stick installation is slow – this is what really happens.

When running Linux Mint from a USB stick, it’s true that reading data from the USB stick can be slower compared to reading from a hard drive. However, the Linux runtime files are loaded into RAM (Random Access Memory) during the boot process. This is known as a “live” or “live session” mode.

In this mode, the operating system and applications are loaded into RAM, which provides faster access times compared to reading from the USB stick. As a result, normal operations such as browsing, office work, and other tasks that don’t require frequent disk access should not be significantly affected by the slower USB stick.

However, there are some scenarios where the slower USB stick might impact performance:

Disk-intensive operations:

If you’re performing tasks that require frequent disk access, such as installing software, updating the system, or copying large files, the slower USB stick can cause noticeable delays.

Swap space:

If the system runs low on RAM, it will use the USB stick as swap space, which can lead to slower performance. This is because the system needs to write data to the slower USB stick, which can cause delays.

Persistence:

If you’ve enabled persistence on your USB stick, which allows you to save changes and settings between reboots, the system will need to write data to the USB stick periodically. This can cause slower performance, especially if you’re performing disk-intensive operations.

In general, running Linux Mint or other OSs from a USB stick can be a convenient and portable way to use the operating system, and the impact of the slower USB stick on performance will depend on your specific use case. If you’re only performing light tasks, you might not notice a significant difference. However, if you’re performing disk-intensive operations or need faster performance, installing Linux Mint on a hard drive is a better option.

 

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

This is what the first two tools produce (formatting is all to c-ck, but it is in terminal anyway)

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$ free
total          used            free          shared buff/cache available
Mem:         2004840     1009620      119924      112336 1174228      995220
Swap:        6199292      432664     5766628

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$ vmstat
procs ———–memory———- —swap– —–io—- -system———cpu——-
r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in   cs us sy id wa st gu
2  0 432664 119924  16532 1153552   25   65   748   785  444    3 10 7 79  5  0  0

ian@ian-EB1007P:~$

Does it confirm this Asus box is unsuitable?

Ian P

 

That’s not good!  It shows Mint is having to swap RAM to and from the laptop’s hard drive, and that the swap space is small too.  The bottleneck is insufficient RAM.  Swapping slows everything down, and it depends on how fast the physical disc is.

If I remember correctly, the Atom was designed to provide good battery life on a inexpensive laptop, and inexpensive means all the components are likely to be on the slow side.   Relatively slow CPU, RAM, IO, graphics, maths, network, and disc.

Here’s what good looks like.  A middle-aged, not cheap, Dell XPS with 16Gb RAM:

free and vmstat show my Dell isn’t using swap at all.  Ian’s Asus is doing 25 swaps in per second, and 65 swaps out per second, which is a lot of data going between RAM and disc just to make space.  Everything crawls on the Asus because memory has to be continuously moved and reorganised.  In contrast, my Dell has 16Gb of RAM and won’t need to swap ever unless I load the machine very heavily.   And then, it swaps to a fast SSD, not a slow hard-drive, so performance will still be reasonably unless I really hammer it.  If it started to swap, I think the Dell can be upgraded to 32Gb…

Asus cure then is more RAM, assuming it can be fitted.  To save a few pennies very cheap computers have the RAM soldered in.  But if if the Asus has sockets, additional RAM is quite cheap.

As Linux distros go, Mint is heavyweight.  It’s in the W11 class, and likes lots of RAM.  If a lightweight distro is acceptable, the Asus will fly: whether or not lightweight is fit for purpose depends on what the user wants.

Dave

 

 

 

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