Linux CNC

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

After much pontification and many delays, I have finally got a Denford Orac running on Linux CNC. I say running but this may be a little optimistic.

The slides move.

The spindle starts (sadly the PWM board doesn't talk to the inverter yet)

The sync and speed pulses work and a solitary (very rough) thread has been produced.

I'm trying to get to grips with the interface at the moment but still struggling with many counter intuitive aspects of it.

I will try to post details of progress as it is made.

David.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Welcome to the twilight zone!

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Hi David. You post on this subject in my topic on CAM software and controllers was put on the 'watch list'!

Great that you are having success! I cannot even run linuxcnc yet…

I would appreciate HUGELY if you would give a detail breakdown of what you did –

What pc (32/64bit) what interface cards, which version of Linuxcnc ( the ISO, 32bit/64bit, Debian. Stretch, etc)

And what did you change/adapt in the install/HAL, etc, etc….I am looking for a fool's guide – for a basic lathe ,Get this PC, this MESA card, load this LCNC version, run this file, modify this this way, connect this wire there and done..!

Then I can at least understand the basics ( I know NOTHING about Linux, nor do I know some willing friend who does..) and try and learn reality from there on!

Good Show! hope you get it to do all you want.

Joe

[pete hammondParticipant @petehammond94283]

David,

Yes please I will also be reading this with interest, my mach3 is becoming dated!

No pressure!

Thanks

Pete

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 31/12/2020 20:01:23:

I would appreciate HUGELY if you would give a detail breakdown of what you did –

Me too! I've been reading up Linux CNC for some time, but as a complete noob I am not much further forward about where to start.

George B.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Firstly.

Happy new year to all.

To answer a few questions.

I am using a Dell Optiplex 330 which has a single parallel port built in. I have several of these running my various CNC lathes and mills and a spare, just in case. I can buy these off eBay for £30-£40 including shipping and should one go wrong I can change it out and dump the original hard drive in it (or a clone if needed) and be back up and running fairly quickly.

I pointed out on the post by Joe that a friend who has used Linux but not for CNC helped me with the install. I will ask him for more info on Monday when I see him.

I can say that I am using version 2.8.1 and have used Gmoccapy 2 axis lathe ( I have a touch screen).

I am using the original stepper motors with Chinese micro stepping drivers.

I have an old diycnc V2.0 breakout board that was kicking around and a spindle board v1.2 made by the same chap that did the breakout board.

The spindle board doesn't work yet.

The motor is a 1/2 HP three phase run by an old Omron inverter which was also kicking around.

I have a Mesa 7i96 but will leave playing with that until I have it all running on the parallel port.

Before I started I gave this process some thought. I decided to use a single parallel port as I would be able to configure Mach 3 to it and this would prove the PC and hardware were okay if Linux didn't work. Also the Orac was bought some time ago just for the purpose of being a test for Linux and so there is no pressure to get this working quickly.

So I have had another play with it today and although I am not much further forward I do seem to be more comfortable with the operation of both the CNC interface and Linux in general.

I have spent most of the morning tweaking acceleration for the motors and have had it cutting more threads. There is something not right about the set up and this will need looking into tomorrow.

I have already had to manually alter the ini file (the first step on the road to mastering Luinux CNC!)

Regards.

David.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 31/12/2020 20:01:23:

…I would appreciate HUGELY if you would give a detail breakdown of what you did –

What pc (32/64bit) what interface cards, which version of Linuxcnc ( the ISO, 32bit/64bit, Debian. Stretch, etc)

And what did you change/adapt in the install/HAL, etc, etc….I am looking for a fool's guide – for a basic lathe ,Get this PC, this MESA card, load this LCNC version, run this file, modify this this way, connect this wire there and done..!

Then I can at least understand the basics ( I know NOTHING about Linux, nor do I know some willing friend who does..) and try and learn reality from there on!

Few friends on here who know about Linux and might be able to help.

A quick look at the LinuxCNC site wasn't too terrifying, though I can see why it might seem so! It appears LinuxCNC is supplied as an application bundled with a specially tweaked version of Linux. The tweaking activates real-time features in the kernel needed to command a fast moving machine tool, but doesn't appear to mess with the user side. So, user doesn't install LinuxCNC as an ordinary application, rather he sources a computer which will be dedicated to CNC, downloads the LinuxCNC iso, installs it and gets a Linux computer with a real-time kernel which could run ordinary programs like spreadsheets etc, but is really meant to work CNC machines.

Provided it will run Linux, almost any reasonably quick computer would do. As I already have one, I'm inclined to try it with a RaspberryPi 4, but being small and cheap, these are very suitable for workshop use. The 4Gb model is about £55, the 8Gb is £75, plus PSU and memory card. It also appears Pi4 is supported with an easy LinuxCNC install.

Once loaded, LinuxCNC comes with example CNC configurations, so it would make sense to buy to match one of them, though the documentation says the configurations can be adapted to suit other machines. Various breakout boxes appear to be supported with pin, USB and Ethernet Connectivity. As Mesa get mentioned a lot, this link is to their LinuxCNC compatible range. Spoilt for choice! The cheapest is an RPi Daughter Board for $88, providing 3 old school parallel port interfaces. If serious, I'd be inclined to look at the Ethernet linked 7176ED which does 5-axis step/dir output for ordinary stepper motors like I put on my rotary table. Safer choice because it will work with a bigger computer if the Pi4 proves too weedy for 5-axes. For more money, interfaces available for analogue servos, and – 'anything'. The latter are programmable, so almost any CNC machine could be made to work.

Possibly I'm being over optimistic! I'll see if I can get LinuxCNC running on a Pi4B later and report back.

Dave

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

How did this get on with the speed test they recommend you try out? I put Linuxcnc on a compaq a couple of years ago but it was half the minimum they say you need due to the on board video. The implication was that I needed to get a seperate video card which is where I stalled for the time being.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You might want to ask over on MEM forum, at least one member there runs his mills and lathe (converted EMCO) on LinuxCNC and does some exceptional work

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

I run my 3 LinuxCNC based machines on old intel D525MW boards; 4gig RAM. These are dual-core 1800 mhz (or so) boards.

I have a MESA 5i25 card in each of them. In theory, they are identical for quick swapping.

Bazyle – stepper timing is fairly critical; using the "old, dumb" parallel port requires pretty exact timing; if you use a card that off-loads the critical timing stuff, almost any computer will do. (card can be plug-in, or via ethernet)

The MESA 5i25 cards (if you go that route) are pretty much plug-n-play, but be sure to order the one you wish; they are "flashed" with a configuration to match the attached device. I've re-flashed one; quite easy. 2 of my cards are for "parallel port" to Gecko G540 stepper driver boxes, one to a "Mesa 7i76 I/O card".

I did start a CNC conversion of my 2nd Emco Compact-8 lathe, put on a 3-phase motor, but work got in the way, and I inherited a little Sherline. 2nd Emco sold on, but kept the 3-phase.

You can find articles in Model Engineer by me, designed to show simple 2D CAD to CNC to actual parts; I don't have the issue numbers at hand. (yes Jason, 2D CAD; hopefully as a first step to get people going with CNC)

Of possible interest: I don't have a pillar drill anymore, but have 4 vertical mills. One of my CNC mills, if I want to manually drill, I just use that. It boots quickly, spindle control is a breeze, and I have a DRO if I want it for accurate manual placing of holes.

In my workshop, these LinuxCNC things just work. I don't worry about them; they have proven themselves incredibly reliable.

Keep going gentlemen! Hopefully 2021 will bring CNC to more of our workshops; whether LinuxCNC or some other program doesn't really matter. It's the learning and experimentation and production that matters.

John.

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

I really do not wish to hijack David's thread here, but if some discourse can bring a few of us to better understanding of LinuxCNC (LCNC) them maybe I can be forgiven??

Dave ( SOD) – As you are a Linux man, please don't assume us mere mortals know at all what goes on with that stuff! I don't regard myself as too dim, but that stuff is on another planet..

You said – A quick look at the LinuxCNC site wasn't too terrifying, though I can see why it might seem so! It appears LinuxCNC is supplied as an application bundled with a specially tweaked version of Linux.

That is what I thought at first glance – here is a nice ISO, just make a boot stick, boot on a PC and start playing while reading all the docs, etc… Hah!

The ONLY ISO on the LinuxCNC.org page, which is where all use newbies end up starting – would NOT boot on any 32bit processor machine I have – and nowhere does it tell you you need 64bit, etc – so you mess about, try another machine, etc, etc – eventually, one of my machines put up a message to the effect – trying to boot 64 bit on x86….

I eventually managed to get it to live boot on my win-10 Dell laptop – did not get far as I did not know what I was looking at on the Debian page, etc. And then…when I tried to reboot the Dell into Win-10 IT WOULD NOT BOOT! Complained that Window had been corrupted, etc – I was careful to live boot, NOT install, did not fiddle via Debian on any files under windows on the disc, etc ..

So, I looked for 32 bit installs – did not find on the downloads page – on the forum I was referred to a page of older, 32 bit, files, not ISO's , and all stemming from 2013 to 2015 – did not seem nice to be trying to install stuff that was already 5 to 7 years old??

So, back at the LinuxCNC.org downloads page – there are a few more possibilities there –

LinuxCNC 2.8 Downloads

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster PREEMPT-RT ISO

The Debian 10 Buster ISO uses a PREEMPT-RT patch which is close to mainstream Linux but does not, in some cases, give quite such good realtime performance as the previous RTAI kernel. It is very often more than good enough. It should probably be the first version tried even if using a parallel port. This is compatible with all Mesa and Pico interface boards.

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 7 Wheezy RTAI

Users requiring a known-stable RTAI installation can install the Debian 7 Wheezy ISO and then upgrade as described in 2.8 documents.

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster RTAI

The more adventurous can install the Buster ISO and then install the experimental RTAI kernel as described in 2.8 documents

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Raspberry Pi OS based on Debian 10 Buster

Raspberry Pi 4 Uspace compatable with Mesa Ethernet and SPI interface boards.

How on earth is a un-educated wannabee user supposed to know what that means? which one of those should I use? All I want is to drive my 'mill' or 'lathe'….What is the difference/implications of each choice..After MANY hours on the forums, digging in the WAY out of date Wiki, I am still at a loss. Since I wish to use MSEA cards, I assume the real time issue is less relevant. However, since the first choice above would not work on any other than my 64bit machine, which of the other must I use? Whats the implication in choice between Buster and Wheezy? And does the above choice set imply that the ONLY one that works with MESA is the first one??

I am afraid I find this all VERY terrifying! But I do want to get it working, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

I have a nice ITX mini-PC, that has an Intel Core Dou 1.66GHz cpu, but is 32 bit – I had hoped to use it to drive and ethernet MESA card, but have managed nothing with it so far!

And the originator of this host post, David Colwill says he used vers 2.8.1 WHICH DOES NOT EVEN EXIST as a recommend latest download in the LCNC download page..!!

And then, whatever version is may be, which installation is it – Buster? Wheezy?

Sheesh…

How does a raw beginner get started with this when the WiKi is so old where it matters, where the user docs assume you already know LinuxCNC, where the forum folk are so tired of reading the same newby questions over and over they don't bother responding, or are very brusque…

As I said, I am not that dumb or dull, but this is a brick wall so far..

Joe

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by John Alexander Stewart on 01/01/2021 16:58:26:

I run my 3 LinuxCNC based machines on old intel D525MW boards; 4gig RAM. These are dual-core 1800 mhz (or so) boards.

I have a MESA 5i25 card in each of them. In theory, they are identical for quick swapping.

Bazyle – stepper timing is fairly critical; using the "old, dumb" parallel port requires pretty exact timing; if you use a card that off-loads the critical timing stuff, almost any computer will do. (card can be plug-in, or via ethernet)

The MESA 5i25 cards (if you go that route) are pretty much plug-n-play, but be sure to order the one you wish; they are "flashed" with a configuration to match the attached device. I've re-flashed one; quite easy. 2 of my cards are for "parallel port" to Gecko G540 stepper driver boxes, one to a "Mesa 7i76 I/O card".

I did start a CNC conversion of my 2nd Emco Compact-8 lathe, put on a 3-phase motor, but work got in the way, and I inherited a little Sherline. 2nd Emco sold on, but kept the 3-phase.

You can find articles in Model Engineer by me, designed to show simple 2D CAD to CNC to actual parts; I don't have the issue numbers at hand. (yes Jason, 2D CAD; hopefully as a first step to get people going with CNC)

Of possible interest: I don't have a pillar drill anymore, but have 4 vertical mills. One of my CNC mills, if I want to manually drill, I just use that. It boots quickly, spindle control is a breeze, and I have a DRO if I want it for accurate manual placing of holes.

In my workshop, these LinuxCNC things just work. I don't worry about them; they have proven themselves incredibly reliable.

Keep going gentlemen! Hopefully 2021 will bring CNC to more of our workshops; whether LinuxCNC or some other program doesn't really matter. It's the learning and experimentation and production that matters.

John.

Hi John,

John – You know the stuff, so its old hat to you – It certainly is foreign to ALL of us asking for assistance here!

I run my 3 LinuxCNC based machines on old intel D525MW boards; 4gig RAM. These are dual-core 1800 mhz (or so) boards.

32bit? 64bit?? What version of LCNC? what version of Linux install? Debian. Wheezy ? Buster???

And as you suggest, we would LOVE to keep going, but how about holding our collective hands till we are at least over this darn Wall!

A simple half page of instruction as to what to download from where, for 32bit or 64 bit, how to boot it, what the intro page looks like, how to start up LinuxCNC ( where is it in the Linux pages, directories..) and a BASIC intro into what one needs to start looking at/setting up/taking care up, so that we have an idea of what we don't know and what we should start own research in the Wiki and user docs…

And then there is HAL, and an axis and a joint, and a pin and a signal – us poor mere mortals!

Please forgive the rant, but what is simple for those in the know ain't for the rest of us..and I am trying hard to get some direction my my choices or controller – whicg right now are split between PlanetCNC, Centroid Acorn and LinuxCNC. I have a feeling the latter should be my choice but I have no idea at all why I should feel that!

The PlanetCNC and Centroid stuff is very polished, does need effort to install and set up, but a green user can do it without trauma. They are however not as adaptable…

So my effort is focused at trying to understand LCNC before making any choices..

HELP!

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Joe,

LinuxCNC is not a learning curve, it is a learning cliff. Finding your way through the documentation is a nightmare. However the actual installation process is relatively simple

I have been using LinuxCNC trouble free for the last fifteen years on all my modified Emco mills and lathes. It's robust and reliable and I would not want to change it.

I keep everything dead simple. no Mesa boards or whatever, just connect everything directly to the 25pin parallel port.. The older versions of LinuxCNC works well , so no worries there.

I use older (£50 ish) mid range 32 bit machines, to get the parallel port.which is missing on more modern machines. Each PC has a dedicated installation of LinuxCNC which overwrites any existing Windozz crap.

I install the LinuxCNC 2.7 ISO. It runs total reliability on my older 32 bit machines.

I interface the step/direction signals from the stepper motor drive bricks directly to the 25 pin parallel port signals. No other interface or MESA boards. just straight one to one connections.

I use the LinuxCNC Step Config Wizard (in the drop down menu) to configure each of my machines :. 2 axis lathe, 3 and 4 axis mill.

The Step Config Wizard is helpful and talks you through the setup. However if you experience any problems, I can help you through the process.

If you need more help, just ask

Mike (AKA Vixen)

 

Edited By mike T on 01/01/2021 18:45:54

Edited By mike T on 01/01/2021 18:46:28

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Joe,

I feel your pain!

I had spent some time trying to find videos on youtube and other info to get me started but couldn't find anything that I understood or felt was going to help, so I gave up. I figured the best way to get started was to play with it and fortunately for me I had help with the initial set up. Even after a short time playing around in Linux I understand more about it but I'm still not sure how far I will be able to go with it. It does seem that there is a catch 22 situation here. If you haven't used it you can't understand anything anyone tells you about it. I know this because some of the videos I watched and gave up on are starting to make some sense now.

I should point out that I only posted this because I know that there are people out there who are interested but are put off by the rather fearsome reputation that it has. I am deliberately not asking for help. I will flounder along for as long as it takes or until I get bored with it. If I can't set it up and run it with information in the manual and already on the forums then it is probably not for me.

That said I have already noticed that I have been very quick to blame Linux for things that were clearly down to my stupidity. An example here is that the speed display (in axis as I haven't got it to work in gmoccapy) wasn't reading correctly. It turned out that I hadn't entered the number of holes in the encoder wheel and it was reading the default value of 100 instead of the actual 48, this made it look as is the displayed speed was half the actual speed and started me trying to work out if it was triggering twice and hence wasting an hour or so until the penny dropped.

I do believe it is worth sticking with as John and others swear by it and it is clearly very reliable once set up. I know that there are other options like Planet CNC, Mach4, Masso etc but they all involve buying hardware and software and you have to take something of a leap of faith and faith is a commodity that I have very little of ( I was seriously tempted by Planet CNC ).

I will continue to fight on but things may have to go on hold for a week or so as I try to get on top of work.

Regards.

David.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No Need to visit MEM now, I forgot Mike T is one in the same.

J.A.S from what I have seen Linux CNC seems to be a lot more user friendly when you want to use the machine for simple tasks like milling a surface flat or positioning a group of holes. I have done it with Mach3 bit it's really just jogging to position and then using the jog as a way of controlling what is in effect 3 power feeds using two to position in X&Y and then Z to feed the drill.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Joseph
it’s generally not worth trying to put Linux + windoze10 together on the same machine – it is possible but you first have to reduce the space on the the hard drive allocated to windoze using a windoze tool – Linux generally behaves nicely and can usually read the windoze stuff but windoze assumes it has the whole machine esp when updates occur and it refuses (unless you load a special app) to be able to read the Linux machines. Its much easier to take out the hard drive and install another – second hand 150GB drives are about ?10 once CEX stores in UK repopen but are online tho not sure I’d trust parcel force! – solid state 128GB are about ?30 or less – the advantage of a shop is you can take back hdds if the install fails due to faulty drives – obviously out in the sticks it’s safer to buy a new drive.

Edited By Frances IoM on 01/01/2021 19:04:04

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well, no problem so far. I used Ubuntu, but Windows can create a bootable SD-Card in much the same way.

Went to http://www.linuxcnc.org and downloaded ‘LinuxCNC RaspberryPi OS based on Debian10 Buster’

Got linuxcnc-2.8.0-pi4.zip (1.3Gb)

Extracted linuxcnc-2.8.0-pi4.img

Followed Getting Started Guide at **LINK**

Checksum check failed (different image) – ignored. (This just checks the download wasn't corrupted.)

Installed Imager_1.5.amd64.deb for Ubuntu. (A program for copying a bootable img on to an SD-Card)

Plugged card reader with 8Gb SDCard into USB port on my Ubuntu computer.

Ran Imager

From ‘Choose OS’ selected ‘linuxcnc-2.8.0-pi4.img’ via ‘use custom’ option

From ‘Choose SD’ selected my SDCard (the only one plugged in)

Pressed WRITE button. Copied file for about 5 minutes, and finished OK

Removed card & inserted into switched-off Pi4B with keyboard, screen, and PSU ready to go.

Powered up and got missing kvn missing CPU0 error, lots of boot messages (not errors), then the usual ‘first time install’ rigmarole asking for US or UK keyboard & wifi password details etc.

Then the pi4 updated itself: I guess the linuxCNC image is out-of-date because this took about 30 minutes. Nothing abnormal, and I ended up with a typical raspberryPi graphics screen and the usual invitation to restart to apply changes. Did that, got the kvm error again, otherwise clean start.

All apparently normal except the Raspberry menu list includes a CNC group offering:

• Documentation

• G-Code Quick Reference

• Latency Test

• LinuxCNC

• Pncconf Wizear

• StepConf Wizard

Clicking LinuxCNC started the application and asked me to select a machine configuration. (Sorry about the primitive screenshots!)

I chose multi-spindle lathe, which is a simulated machine. I was asked if I wanted to copy the configuration so it could be customised for a real lathe. That done, Linux CNC presents a control screen:

No hardware connected, but the software seems to be working.

Dave

 

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 01/01/2021 19:15:30

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by Frances IoM on 01/01/2021 19:01:30:
Joseph
it's generally not worth trying to put Linux + windoze10 together on the same machine – it is possible but you first have to reduce the space on the the hard drive allocated to windoze using a windoze tool –

Frances

– I agree – I do not intend to have a dual boot machine – for CNC, if I go LCNC, it will be dedicated – the issue being I have no 'free' machine, 64bit that I could use, as the only ISO on the download page wanted 64bit, so I tried a live boot on the win10 machine just to taste…

Mike T.

Thanks for your comments Mike. I am trying to start with equipment as current as is practical, so am not keen to configure a machine with the old par port system – esp since my eventual aim is to get the lathe to have a coordinated C axis, with basic live tooling. I guess the par port could still do it all, but there are other motives as well – to have the PC/screen/MPG-handwheels on a 'cart' that I can wheel to the mill, router, engraver, lathe, and just plug the 'cart' via ethernet into the MESA card in the machine, load that machines profile and run. Else I need a half dozen PC's, or a big cable connector tween cart and machine, with all the step/dir signals, homing and limit sensors, etc…However, to start and to learn, I don't care what the implementation is – As long as I can get it working on 'a' PC!

Understand though the dilema – It is normal when installing software to install the 'latest' version – whatever OS , etc. So why would I choose v2.7 – v2.8 MUST be better, no? And if v2.7 means its the same as v2.8, only its 32bit ( I'm sure its more than that!) how am I supposed to know that or find it out? So one just mucks around, hacking away at ones sanity…

David ( Colwill) – Oh yes, I am going to stick with it for some considerable time! Not going to be beat by a stupid Penguin!

And Dave (SOD!)

That's Cheating…first off there is ONLY ONE RPi version that you could download from the official download page, so probably difficult for that to not work? No confusion of how many bits, which version, which Linux, etc. But I don't like Pi…I have two Pi-4s with max ram, with 7inch touch screens, 2xkbd and 2xmouse , etc going free to anyone willing to pay shipping from here!

If you install one of the PC ISO's and tell us what you did, now that would be nice…

Now I am going to try Mike-T's V2.7…

Joe

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Joseph
that is a valuable gift – is there no tech college or school nearer you that could benefit – I have a Ri4 (but only 4Gb) + a Pi400 to play with – very impressed by speed – I’ve tried to get Pico Technology to get their software guys to sort out their rather fouled up Linux downloads as the Pi400 looks ideal for use with my Pico Scope + my large hi def monitor – the Pico stuff is great but the Linux version is always in beta and some way behind windoze – I just cant see why any company could handle windoze updates + remain sane

Re 32bit/64bit – all? processors made in last 10 years should handle 64 bit – except maybe the cheap notebooks.
Debian Buster aka Debian10 is the latest version + is kept upto date – many other Linux systems are based on Debian – major changes are the user window interface (Debian10 offers a wide choice – my usual is XFCE as simple doesn’t get in the way.

Edited By Frances IoM on 01/01/2021 20:48:30

Edited By Frances IoM on 01/01/2021 21:08:25

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Mike T.

Thanks for your comments Mike. I am trying to start with equipment as current as is practical, so am not keen to configure a machine with the old par port system – esp since my eventual aim is to get the lathe to have a coordinated C axis, with basic live tooling. I guess the par port could still do it all, but there are other motives as well – to have the PC/screen/MPG-handwheels on a 'cart' that I can wheel to the mill, router, engraver, lathe, and just plug the 'cart' via ethernet into the MESA card in the machine, load that machines profile and run. Else I need a half dozen PC's, or a big cable connector tween cart and machine, with all the step/dir signals, homing and limit sensors, etc…However, to start and to learn, I don't care what the implementation is – As long as I can get it working on 'a' PC!

Understand though the dilema – It is normal when installing software to install the 'latest' version – whatever OS , etc. So why would I choose v2.7 – v2.8 MUST be better, no? And if v2.7 means its the same as v2.8, only its 32bit ( I'm sure its more than that!) how am I supposed to know that or find it out? So one just mucks around, hacking away at ones sanity…

 

Joe,

"So why would I choose v2.7 – v2.8 MUST be better, no."  NO NOT NECESSARILY, just different linux OS software changes

The functionality to drive X,Y, Z ,A, B and C axes, use pendants and drive servos or steppers reliably, has been there since day one, when it was known as EMC2. The CNC functional bugs were ironed out many many years ago. They have tidied up the GUI interface and the set up wizards over time. V2.8 does no more or no less than V2.7 from the CNC machine operators viewpoint. You therefor do not need to go for the very latest . 2.7 is stable and reliable and works on 32 bit machines. V2.7 can use the parallel port or a plug in Messa cards or whatever you wish to play with.

You must guessed by now, that LinuxCNC is very much a software developers toy as it is a CNC operators tool. Most of the version updates are usually to do with making the linux software prettier, they rearly , if ever, add more CNC functionality.

I can see what you have in mind with walk round plug in cart. It sounds like a fun thing to develop. But if your needs are to do CNC machining, several dedicated cheap PC have a lot to offer.

You say, "However, to start and to learn, I don't care what the implementation is – As long as I can get it working on 'a' PC!"

The route I described is a simple way to get you started with LinuxCNC. Once you have a feel for how it works, you can go to add a Messa card, then go on and on and develop more and more complex systems. LinuxCNC will let you do it. V 2.7 will let you do it. But first you probably need something simple that is known to work.

The choice is yours. My systems are well sorted

Stay safe

Mike

Edited By mike T on 01/01/2021 21:53:38

Edited By mike T on 01/01/2021 21:55:04

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by mike T on 01/01/2021 21:52:26

The route I described is a simple way to get you started with LinuxCNC. Once you have a feel for how it works, you can go to add a Messa card, then go on and on and develop more and more complex systems. LinuxCNC will let you do it. V 2.7 will let you do it. But first you probably need something simple that is known to work.

The choice is yours. My systems are well sorted

Stay safe

Mike

 

Mike, You are a STAR!

I created a Boot stick using Rufus, with LCNC Ver2.7.15 , which appears to be Debian 7 Wheezy – and is 32bit!

(Actually was Ver2.7.14 on the download page, and once installed, it updated to 2.4.15)

I booted on the small ITZ Mini-PC and it booted fully! In Applications LinuxCNC is there with all its bits.

So I took the next step – did a full install, overwriting the Win-XP that was on the disk – install was successful, it boots from the hard disk – I ran the latency test, setup a mill config (Stepconf) and all went well – could not run my setup as there appears to be a driver problem with the Par port card…

Thanks so much for giving me some direction Mike.

David, I apologise again for the massive hijack of your thread – hopefully others who may have shared my confusion have discovered at least a little – how to load and boot LinuxCNC!

 

Thank you to all – I will keep posting as I progress and add my experiences to Dave's.

Regards

Joe

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 01/01/2021 22:36:30

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 01/01/2021 17:47:32:

…

Dave ( SOD) – As you are a Linux man, please don't assume us mere mortals know at all what goes on with that stuff! I don't regard myself as too dim, but that stuff is on another planet..

You said – A quick look at the LinuxCNC site wasn't too terrifying, though I can see why it might seem so! It appears LinuxCNC is supplied as an application bundled with a specially tweaked version of Linux.

That is what I thought at first glance – here is a nice ISO, just make a boot stick, boot on a PC and start playing while reading all the docs, etc… Hah!

The ONLY ISO on the LinuxCNC.org page, which is where all use newbies end up starting – would NOT boot on any 32bit processor machine I have – and nowhere does it tell you you need 64bit, etc – …. So, I looked for 32 bit installs – did not find on the downloads page – on the forum I was referred to a page of older, 32 bit, files, not ISO's , and all stemming from 2013 to 2015 –

… back at the LinuxCNC.org downloads page – there are a few more possibilities

LinuxCNC 2.8 Downloads

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster PREEMPT-RT ISO

The Debian 10 Buster ISO uses a PREEMPT-RT patch which is close to mainstream Linux but does not, in some cases, give quite such good realtime performance as the previous RTAI kernel. It is very often more than good enough. It should probably be the first version tried even if using a parallel port. This is compatible with all Mesa and Pico interface boards.

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 7 Wheezy RTAI

Users requiring a known-stable RTAI installation can install the Debian 7 Wheezy ISO and then upgrade as described in 2.8 documents.

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster RTAI

The more adventurous can install the Buster ISO and then install the experimental RTAI kernel as described in 2.8 documents

• LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Raspberry Pi OS based on Debian 10 Buster

Raspberry Pi 4 Uspace compatable with Mesa Ethernet and SPI interface boards.

How on earth is a un-educated wannabee user supposed to know what that means? which one of those should I use?

…

And then, whatever version is may be, which installation is it – Buster? Wheezy?

Joe,

It's like anything new – you have to reach a certain level before anything makes sense. A few things may be making life difficult:

• Insisting on 32 bit is asking for trouble; it means you need an old version, out of the mainstream, with document and tutorial mismatches and weak support As a general rule computers and software just behind the bleeding edge are easiest to work with. Old computers and software are a pain in the butt.
• Linux isn't Windows, and it's hard to break old habits! Accept it works and swim with the tide.
• Don't assume you need a full understanding of an OS to use it. Try something and ask when it doesn't work. A decent forum helps!
• Being clever! Seriously! People good at stuff are often thrown by things they feel they ought to understand. Buy a Dunce Cap, assume LinuxCNC is alien technology, and unpick it from basics.

Break complex problems into manageable chunks. I suggest if you've got a Pi4, forget your prejudices and use it as a learning aid. Them being disposable avoids horrible possibilities like accidentally trashing a lovely new Windows 10 laptop. The goal is to understand LinuxCNC well enough to get to the next stage, not to identify the perfect set-up on day one.

The 3 different versions reflect choices an informed user would make. Strong hint you should go for LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster PREEMPT-RT ISO on an Intel computer – the blurb says: "It should probably be the first version tried" The real-time add-on used is straightforward rather than slick so LinuxCNC relies on the hardware to react quickly. As a particular computer may not be man enough, there are alternatives, both based on another real-time extension. If this works the others don't matter.

They use RTAI, which is more performant but less straightforward to package. One release uses an older stable version of RTAI, with a better chance of working on weak computers, whilst the other is built on the latest RTAI, which isn't entirely trustworthy yet. That one is for young thrusters!

The developer issue is this: do you write special real-time code when today's computers and standard Linux are nearly fast enough to not need it, and both improve year on year? Especially when computers like the Pi4 are so close.

Dave

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Going to respond in-line – its easier…

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 01/01/2021 22:46:34:

It's like anything new – you have to reach a certain level before anything makes sense. A few things may be making life difficult:

• Insisting on 32 bit is asking for trouble; it means you need an old version, out of the mainstream, with document and tutorial mismatches and weak support As a general rule computers and software just behind the bleeding edge are easiest to work with. Old computers and software are a pain in the butt.

I agree – But I'm not insisting on 32 bit, or on anything for that matter, at this early stage of the game! The point is that everyone tells me that LCNC is great, it just works, juts load the ISO and boot it and you can play and learn – you can use any old PC lying around, buy a dozen for dime on Ebay, etc, etc..fine, but….try it and it all falls apart..Every second line on the Windows-10 feature page tells you it IS 64 bit, will not work on 32bit, etc – NOWHERE on the Linux download page or associates info does it even mention its an issue. And in which world does one live where there is a version change (upgrade?) in an app that surreptitiously changes the type of computer that is may run on??? And they don't tell you???

All I am trying to do is get LCNC running , in whatever mediocre fashion on whatever lousy machine I may have in the junk box, so that I begin to climb that learning cliff. If I eventually feel LCNC is for me, then I am happy to go buy new hardware, etc, but since I have had it hammered into me that LCNC will run on anything, etc – I accepted what I was told.

• Linux isn't Windows, and it's hard to break old habits! Accept it works and swim with the tide.
• Don't assume you need a full understanding of an OS to use it. Try something and ask when it doesn't work. A decent forum helps!
• Being clever! Seriously! People good at stuff are often thrown by things they feel they ought to understand. Buy a Dunce Cap, assume LinuxCNC is alien technology, and unpick it from basics.

Break complex problems into manageable chunks. I suggest if you've got a Pi4, forget your prejudices and use it as a learning aid. Them being disposable avoids horrible possibilities like accidentally trashing a lovely new Windows 10 laptop. The goal is to understand LinuxCNC well enough to get to the next stage, not to identify the perfect set-up on day one.

THAT is precisely what I have being trying to do! Doing it on a Pi is not for me – fighting the vagaries of Pi, having to get into linux on the Pi, sudo this sudo that, to setup the screen resolution, 'cause I can't see on the silly 7inch screen, fighting parallel ports, while all I want to do is play with LCNC…

The 3 different versions reflect choices an informed user would make. Strong hint you should go for LinuxCNC 2.8.0 Debian 10 Buster PREEMPT-RT ISO on an Intel computer – the blurb says: "It should probably be the first version tried" The real-time add-on used is straightforward rather than slick so LinuxCNC relies on the hardware to react quickly. As a particular computer may not be man enough, there are alternatives, both based on another real-time extension. If this works the others don't matter.

And THAT is why I went for that version straight off the bat! Doesn't tell me anywhere I need a fancy 64bit machine..

They use RTAI, which is more performant but less straightforward to package. One release uses an older stable version of RTAI, with a better chance of working on weak computers, whilst the other is built on the latest RTAI, which isn't entirely trustworthy yet. That one is for young thrusters!

The developer issue is this: do you write special real-time code when today's computers and standard Linux are nearly fast enough to not need it, and both improve year on year? Especially when computers like the Pi4 are so close.

Dave

I'll stop ranting now – I think everyone sees the pattern – it is very hard to start, no matter how humble one may be – if there is not an inkling of a direction, a hint of a start button, for a rank newbie to that world!

But, now my 32 Bit crappy computer is running vers 2.7.15, which , it appears, is being used by many folk, and works – It's good enough for me to start 'learning'!

Thanks Chaps!

Joe

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Linux is something I've heard about for years but about which I know very little. Can someone explain (in simple terms) what the advantages are of using Linux for CNC over any other system?

Brian

Edited By Brian H on 02/01/2021 10:15:05

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Hi,

The main reason I am trying it is for threading.

Mach 3 uses a single pulse for synchronising Linux uses a multi slot or quadrature encoder.

There are other advantages but I can in no way claim any kind of knowledge about them

Of the other systems.

Mach 3 is great within its capabilities but is getting dated.

Planet CNC looks good and I was tempted.

Mach 4 is expensive and would need a motion control board making it even more money.

Masso is too expensive (for my tastes at least)

Chinese stand alone controllers. If there was a distributor in the UK I would probably have gone this route.

Others will have more to say on these.

Regards.

David.

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